Rewriting history

9/11 in my view is the event that has shaped the politics of my generation; I have grown up in a world of politics that has been largely influenced by the post-9/11 world. This event has probably been the most discussed event in our history, it will be the subject of study for many years to come, it is the JFK assassination of our times and even over a decade later it is the subject of much debate. As someone who spends a great deal of time studding the subject matter I have begun to notice a worrying trend, that the history of 9/11 is being rewritten and muddled largely thanks to the internet.

Some Statistics.

So, it is probably best to start this thread by making my point regarding how many people are doubting the official narrative regarding 9/11

A recent Yougov Survey sponsored by Rethink9/11.org found that 48% of American’s doubt the official narrative regarding the events of 9/11 and they are not alone, survey after survey shows time and time again that the number of people who doubt the official story is growing.

For example a Zogby pole in 2006 said that

Close to half (48%) agrees the U.S. government and 9/11 Commission are not covering up anything, yet nearly as many (42%) believe the government and 9/11 Commission are covering up. One in ten (10%) is unsure

In addition to this we also have these findings from a international pole looking at 9/11 conspiracies that suggest around half doubt the official story in some way.




Now it is also important to understand that these are the upper range of estimates some go as low as 20% of people stating that they doubt the official narrative. It’s also true that people can play around with statistics and by their very nature are never going to be a absolute true representation of how people really view the attacks. However with that said fundamentally its quite clear that the attacks of 9/11 are far from a fringe belief even 20%, 1 in 5 saying that they think something was covered up regarding 9/11 is a substantial number.

It’s also worrying.

Rewriting history.

The real question at the heart of this thread is why do so many people now believe in 9/11 conspiracies, how has it gone from being very much a fringe belief to being a mainstream believe that is discussed and believed by all members of the social stratosphere, from Doctors and lawyers to minimum wage works and even politicians. It’s a view that gets attention in the mainstream media as well, with many TV documentaries and news paper articles dedicated to exploring the phenomenon of 9/11 conspiracies. These views are growing in popularity

And its not a good thing.

The problem, as I see it, is the existence whole army of keyboard warriors of truth who are out to impose their version of 9/11 truth on to the whole spectrum of social media. These people are rewriting history, it’s now almost accepted as fact that Bin Laden was a CIA agent, that WTC-7 was a controlled demolition or any other number of 9/11 alternative claims when the merit of these claims is highly debatable (NOTE: NOT THE TOPIC OF THIS THREAD) .

It is now almost impossible to research 9/11 without being confronted with page after page of 9/11 conspiracies. From the more mundane claims that the US Government had prior knowledge to the spectacular that it was really a Zionist operation all the way to the realms of science fiction with death ray laser beams form space and mini-nukes. There is no escaping 9/11 conspiracies.

Many of these conspiracies are very well presented with slick looking videos that give Hollywood a run for the money with excellent production value. They write whole books on the subject, each looking at a new angle of the conspiracy that are heavy with references to more conspiracy literature. Then there are the crisp looking websites that present all the “facts” of the grand conspiracy that are all backed up by sexy looking infographics. In addition to all of this we have the plethora of experts who all give credibility to these 9/11 conspiracies.

I mean just look at them all....



So let’s take the highlighted Engineers and Architects for example represented; by A&E for 9/11 truth who now have closer to over 2000 members who all question the official story of 9/11 and pump out lots of truther propaganda. This group is a leader in 9/11 truth and this is mostly because they have the backing of over 2000 professionals. Only they don’t, not really, I mean listed experts seem to include “maritime engineers” and some students of architecture and engineering, I really don’t how are they “experts” on 9/11. In addition to this one also has to remember that while yes there might be over 2000 of them who are speaking out against 9/11 but there are many more that are not jumping on their band wagon of “truth”. Think about the American Institute of Architects has over 80,000 members alone and the American society of Civil Engineers has over 140,000 members. Yet because 2000 Architects and engineers start questioning 9/11 and making a lot of noise they are credible because they are architects and engineers, other 9/11 truthers turn to them and ignore the 198,000 (at least) who it would seem disagree with them. If these people at A&E for 9/11 truth where right, then why do the rest of their colleagues shun them.

The same logic can be applied to any of the above groups, but it is this strange idea that a very small minority of a group can be trusted in the face of a overwhelming majority who disagree with them, that is the cause of the problem with 9/11 truth. We have vast squads of 9/11 keyboard warriors who buy into their rubbish by posting it all over the internet and elaborating on it, even exaggerating it to the point social media has become saturated with 9/11 conspiracies. The result of this is not nice, because the result is that they are....

Stealing History.

That is what I see 9/11 truth as doing, steeling history for future generations, robbing them of the truth rather than liberating them from the lies. They are doing the exact opposite of what they claim, they are not about truth they are about lies and are systematically robbing us of history by rewriting it to support their own conspiracy and financial agenda and distorting history for their own ego.

When people ask me why I keep posting on the 9/11 forum, this is why, it is an attempt to balance the truth and the lies. In years to come when school kids are asked to go complete a school report on that infamous day in history, 9/11/01 they are going to go to the internet and be confronted with page after page of lies upon lies presented as facts in slick videos and eloquent websites that exist only to further the financial gain and ego of those who promote a conspiracy Agenda.

A agenda they have the audacity to call “truth”, when in reality, the 9/11 truth movement agenda only robs us of the real truth for future generations. They are simply replacing the established historical narrative they disagree with, with their own revisionist history, they are rewriting history and it is wrong.

When the towers fell, the people at work sought my opinion because everyone knew that I paid attention to world affairs. "Who do you think did it Terry?". All day long. Who did it? While everyone was speculating this group or that group or "maybe our government", I understood that everyone was looking for an enemy.Some one to blame.

My answer to all on that morning was the same to person after person. Once someone had heard my reply, they went on about their search for the culprit.

My answer was very simple. "It doesn't matter who did it. What matters is who is going to take advantage of it. They are the ones we need to watch out for." Who will shout the loudest and the longest.

For a while I paid attention to all the information pouring out of the mainstream and then the counter information streaming on the web and what did I see? People all trying to take advantage of the disaster.
In 2003 I stopped paying attention to 9/11. Everyone was right and everyone else was wrong.

I liked your title, but had I known it was about 9/11 I would have skipped it and found something else to read.

So,
Ignore anything that doesn't come from an official source?
That might necessitate ignoring this thread altogether.
Your very own thread could, at this very moment, be undermining and endangering the truth.
Even while you attempt to dictate where the truth should come from.

Your "conspiracy theory" isn't from official sources.
Why should anyone give it any credence?

Maybe I shouldn't even respond to your uninformed, highly speculative and grossly unofficial ideas.

Probably shouldn't at that.

reply to post by badgerprints

Ignore anything that doesn't come from an official source?

Absolutely not!!!!

Question everything that comes form any source.

The point is thats not happening right now on the side of the Truther's lots of stuff is being misrepresented as a "fact" when really its "false" or highly debatable. Then they saturate social media with these "facts" that are actually just utter rubbish.

Wew ,another 911 thread eh .Oh, no it's about the bastardisation of the history .I wonder if there was any incriminating evidence that got destroyed ? Enron ? I wonder why the US went to war against Iraq ? Oh yea WMD ...I wonder how that history will be written ? ....How about the history of the Opium production in Afghanistan ? I wonder how they are getting all these drugs into other countries ? Yea I guess it's very important to be accurate with history and we should accept our officials to tell us what is going to be in our children's textbooks .Maybe we should just take history off the table when it comes to our learning .Just in case there may be some errors in it . We all know our overlords only want us to be happy and safe ...

OP you sound like you are suggesting the 911 commissions report should be the historical text book we should have our children learn in the future ..Why not use
Learn History with Philip Zelikow! www.youtube.com...

Yea I could see many wanting to get the history correct ..It is important after all ....peace

TerryMcGuire
When the towers fell, the people at work sought my opinion because everyone knew that I paid attention to world affairs. "Who do you think did it Terry?". All day long. Who did it? While everyone was speculating this group or that group or "maybe our government", I understood that everyone was looking for an enemy.Some one to blame.

My answer to all on that morning was the same to person after person. Once someone had heard my reply, they went on about their search for the culprit.

My answer was very simple. "It doesn't matter who did it. What matters is who is going to take advantage of it. They are the ones we need to watch out for." Who will shout the loudest and the longest.

For a while I paid attention to all the information pouring out of the mainstream and then the counter information streaming on the web and what did I see? People all trying to take advantage of the disaster.
In 2003 I stopped paying attention to 9/11. Everyone was right and everyone else was wrong.

I liked your title, but had I known it was about 9/11 I would have skipped it and found something else to read.

This is a very good point.

Many people do not see the forest through the trees on this issue. They point to all this evidence about why or why not this event happened as it is told but forget about the actual event itself.

Ask yourself what would actually happen to the nation if some group came forth with irrefutable evidence that 9/11 happened differently than they say it did. It would literally rip the US apart from the inside.

People would be drug into court, our political system would be destroyed, the country would probably overreact and tear up the Constitution and rewrite it to make sure this didn't happen again.

The cure may end up being worse than the disease itself.

When Jimmy Carter pardoned all the draft dodgers he did so under the guise that prosecuting them would no longer be beneficial to the nation and that it would do more harm than good. He said its time to move on and face the new challenges confronting the country.

This is sound advice for 9/11.

Whether you believe the official story or not the best thing to do is to use the event in a positive way to shape the future.

OtherSideOfTheCoin


The point is thats not happening right now on the side of the Truther's lots of stuff is being misrepresented as a "fact" when really its "false" or highly debatable.

Sorry man.
Every time I see a "truther" or "birther" or any other label maligning people for not following the party line, I get itchy.

It's almost as if someone were out there creating these little divisive boxes around groups every time they came up with an idea that didn't match the official line. Doesn't matter that they may have a point...or may even be right...just that they are different.

Yep. We don't like them .

Add a label and pigeonhole that guy. We don't like what he's saying.

He's misrepresenting what we want people to believe.

He's a ...

"Thinker"

Yep.
That's the label that will ultimately be put onto the subversive.

"Thinker"

Can't have those "thinkers" spouting their opinions and muddling up the official story.

reply to post by badgerprints


Understandable but you must also admit that there are people that will find a conspiracy in anything. You could tell them the sky is blue or that water is wet and they will produce evidence and charts and graphs and documented video to prove that your theory is wrong.

I don't think there is anything that someone couldn't put together a list of evidence to prove it doesn't exist or didn't happen a certain way.

Spookybelle
reply to post by badgerprints

 

Understandable but you must also admit that there are people that will find a conspiracy in anything.

Of course there are.

So what?
The vast majority of these conspiracies are so outlandish that anyone can see the lack of logic in them.
Blind paranoia isn't new. But it isn't a crime either.

Quite frankly, it's easy to ignore of write off someone who is obviously not using logic or common sense. These people disqualify themselves from the discussion with no problem.

I write these folks off and don't even give them a second thought.

On the other hand, I have a genuine distrust for people who declare others unfit to have an opinion.

reply to post by TerryMcGuire

I liked your title, but had I known it was about 9/11 I would have skipped it and found something else to read.

emmmm

it was posted in the 9/11 forum, did that not give you a bit of a clue that it might have been about 9/11?

OtherSideOfTheCoin
why do so many people now believe in 9/11 conspiracies

Because people are waking up to the facts of the case as presented by professional organizations such as Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth, Scientists for 9/11 Truth, Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice, for instance.

And believing in alternate 9/11 conspiracies is no different than believing the official conspiracy. They're all conspiracies. Both sides.

It's just that one side is presenting a better case with evidence than the other side. The official conspiracy side of it just says "this is the way it happened because we said so". The alternate conspiracy side of it says "this is the way we think it happened based on all available evidence".

OtherSideOfTheCoin
And its not a good thing.

Why is it not a good thing? Who's the authority that gets to decide whether it's a good thing or not? I think what you meant to say is that it's not a good thing in your own opinion.

To those of us who have researched 9/11 extensively, it is a good thing. It means more and more people keep waking up to what is likely the real truth about what happened on that day.

OtherSideOfTheCoin
The problem, as I see it, is the existence whole army of keyboard warriors of truth who are out to impose their version of 9/11 truth on to the whole spectrum of social media.

Are we seriously going to label the 9/11 families as keyboard warriors? They are the ones that started the 9/11 truth movement to begin with by asking questions, not getting answers, and doing their own investigating.

Are we seriously going to label architects, engineers, scientists, physicists, psychologists, many with PhD's, as keyboard warriors?

I don't think so.

OtherSideOfTheCoin
It is now almost impossible to research 9/11 without being confronted with page after page of 9/11 conspiracies.

That would include conspiracies from both sides. And that is a good thing. People should get both sides of the story when researching any topic.

But yes, alternate conspiracies concerning 9/11 are plentiful around the internet. And most people don't even have any knowledge about alternate theories. At least they'll have a plethora of information to educate themselves with.

OtherSideOfTheCoin
and pump out lots of truther propaganda.

That is a little below the belt, and a bit harsh. However, architects, engineers, scientists, physicists, and psychologists, many with PhD's, aren't in the business of putting their careers and good name on the line, just to spew "truther propaganda" because it's fun and they have nothing else better to do.

There's real evidence to be presented, and people are waking up to the evidence little by little, more and more.

OtherSideOfTheCoin
9/11 truthers turn to them and ignore the 198,000 (at least) who it would seem disagree with them.

This claim gets parroted over and over again, no matter how incorrect and inaccurate it may be.

A person has to make it known publicly which side they choose to affiliate with before they can be lumped in with those that agree or disagree. Silence, lack of public statement, does not automatically assume that they are against alternate conspiracies.

100,000 of the 198,000 could agree with the alternate 9/11 conspiracy theories. But we can't know for certain because they haven't stated one way or the other. And it's very dishonest to claim that they will side one way or the other, just to perpetuate an agenda.

OtherSideOfTheCoin
it is this strange idea that a very small minority of a group can be trusted in the face of a overwhelming majority who disagree with them

Again, lack of public statements by each individual is not an affirmation of their agreement with one side or another. Lack of public statements means they don't count.

Just like in elections. If you don't vote, you don't count.

Out of all the architects and engineers that have made public statements, there are far more that agree with alternate 9/11 conspiracies than agree with the official conspiracy.

Same goes with scientists and physicists. There are for more that believe in the alternate 9/11 conspiracy theories than believe in the official conspiracy theory.

OtherSideOfTheCoin
who buy into their rubbish

It's amazing to think that some of the most-educated people in the world with MS, BS, and PhD degrees, are just propagating rubbish because one doesn't agree with their message.

We should contact all the universities that these people went to, and tell these universities that what they're teaching people is rubbish and that MS, BS, and PhD's don't mean anything anymore.

Oh wait, we can't. Because official conspiracy theory proponents go to those same universities.

OtherSideOfTheCoin
That is what I see 9/11 truth as doing, steeling history for future generations, robbing them of the truth

"Robbing them of the truth"? Again, on who's authority does it fall on to say what's true and what is not? Does the official conspiracy theory automatically become true just because a government entity says it's true, and without providing a shred of physical or forensic evidence?

The National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) stated very clearly at the beginning of their report that the majority of evidence was sealed under non-disclosure agreements (NA's). That means nobody gets to see what evidence they used to reach their conclusions. You don't get to see what evidence they used, but you have to take their word for it because they say so.

Sorry, but that doesn't work in the real world of science and research.

OtherSideOfTheCoin
they are not about truth they are about lies

Again, "lies" in your own opinion. The scientific, forensic, audio/visual evidence, along with witness testimony say otherwise.

OtherSideOfTheCoin
it is an attempt to balance the truth and the lies

And again, who gets to dictate or have authority over what is truth and what is lies? This thread was just an opinion piece. There's zero evidence here proving truth or lies about anything.

OtherSideOfTheCoin
They are simply replacing the established historical narrative they disagree with

The same can be said about this thread. You disagree with anything 9/11 truth, so it automatically because "lies". It's called 9/11 "truth" for a reason. Because factual evidence makes something truthful.

Otherwise, it would be just for fun, then it could be called 9/11 "lies".

reply to post by _BoneZ_


A very good rebuttal of my OP i must say, i can respect that.

Probably best to start by saying that its very much be written from the perspective that 9/11 was not some government cover up, and you are most correct, that is just my opinion.

To those of us who have researched 9/11 extensively, it is a good thing. It means more and more people keep waking up to what is likely the real truth about what happened on that day.

I have studied it extensively, both sides of the debate, both the "offical story" and the alternative narrative, I have yet to see any real strong evidence that supports the alternative narrative. That is why in my view the saturation of the internet with 9/11 conspiracy theory literature is a bad thing, it is, as i see it, robbing us of history.

Are we seriously going to label the 9/11 families as keyboard warriors? They are the ones that started the 9/11 truth movement to begin with by asking questions, not getting answers, and doing their own investigating.

That i would have to disagree with, there are 300 members of 9/11 victims and families for 9/11 truth, which really is not that much, they are very much a minority. Also you are implying that I am calling them the key board warriors and I am not, I am talking about all the people online who preach a alternative narrative to 9/11, they may be family members of the victims but most are not.

Are we seriously going to label architects, engineers, scientists, physicists, psychologists, many with PhD's, as keyboard warriors?

yes i am, but that does count for both sides.

But yes, alternate conspiracies concerning 9/11 are plentiful around the internet. And most people don't even have any knowledge about alternate theories. At least they'll have a plethora of information to educate themselves with.

1 in 5 (at the lower end) is quite a lot of people who know about 9/11 conspiracy theories it is not a fringe believe it is very much the mainstream.

The problem is that there are many more websites and youtube videos that promote a alternative narrative to 9/11 than there are that explain the established historical narrative, mostly thanks to what i call the key board warriors. people who research 9/11 online will find a plethora of information to educate themselves on 9/11 conspiracies.

As well all know, Conspiracies and truth are not the same.

100,000 of the 198,000 could agree with the alternate 9/11 conspiracy theories.

but you can only prove that 2000 of them have actually bothered to make this clear.

Out of all the architects and engineers that have made public statements, there are far more that agree with alternate 9/11 conspiracies than agree with the official conspiracy.

Again that is not true, ASCE for example was involved in the FEMA reports, they have 140,000 members, NIST employ close to 3000 scientists and engineers. There have been multiple scientific papers written on 9/11 that all support the offical explanation.

It's amazing to think that some of the most-educated people in the world with MS, BS, and PhD degrees, are just propagating rubbish because one doesn't agree with their message.

Richard gage and Steven jones et al are not some of the most educated people in the world.

Just because they have a few letters attached to their names does not mean they are not capable of writing rubbish. Just because they have Phd does not mean one should not go and look at what they have to say and subject it to a critique, if what they say stands up to critique, fair enough. but if it does not then we should call them all out on that.

We should contact all the universities that these people went to, and tell these universities that what they're teaching people is rubbish and that MS, BS, and PhD's don't mean anything anymore.

No we shouldn't, what we should however is not accept what they have to say just because they have a degree from a university.

Does the official conspiracy theory automatically become true just because a government entity says it's true, and without providing a shred of physical or forensic evidence?

There is evidence, its just that truthers dont like it.

For example NIST provides evidence regarding how WTC-7 collapsed the way it did

the 9/11 commission provides evidence about run up to the attacks.

books by various historians provide a soild historical account of terrorism before the attacks

the lack of evidence by truthers to support a alternative narrative that supports their ideas

Again, "lies" in your own opinion

True but i can find points where truthers are guilty of lying.

The scientific, forensic, audio/visual evidence, along with witness testimony say otherwise.

It also supports the offical story.

been awhile since i posted in a 911 thread...after years of extentsive research and posting my own anslysis...time and time again...showing how bazant failed on so many levels....how with in two days after the event he comes up with a farsical top down collapse in a structure of steel with a central core component...yet people are still labeling people as truthers in a derogatory way like they are evil for ONLY asking questions and seeking answers to unanswered questions.

with people from the OS just quoting from official sources and very seldom showing work from their own efforts just as the OP has done here (yawns) yet again.

No one is rewriting history as this is not historical, It is still ongoing and will continue until we are all silenced or all the lies have been exposed.

It will continue until the senseless slaughter of innocent people through out the world has come to an end under the guise of this false flag operation.

when the truth is exposed and shown that the OS was staged to sway public opinion then maybe the people who keep promoting it such as the OP.

they might truly see.


THE OTHER SIDE OF THE COIN

OtherSideOfTheCoin
survey after survey shows time and time again that the number of people who doubt the official story is growing.

I still have never met a truther in the real world, only on the internet.

reply to post by plube

with people from the OS just quoting from official sources and very seldom showing work from their own efforts just as the OP has done here (yawns) yet again.

eh?

This is all my own work, i have not plagiarized anything the only sources i have used come form various opinon poles done regarding 9/11 conspiracies one of which comes from Rethink9/11.org.

Everything else is my own work, everything i write is my own work unless I have stated otherwise by using quotes.

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin


It certainly might have but I seldom check the forum if I like the title.
So much for ME putting two and two together.

Just way off base on this one my friend. You can't mold a survey based on a hypothetical. I deal with an average of 45-50 people on a daily basis and if you surveyed them 0% would respond positive to your question involving a 9/11 conspiracy.

I know it's not your survey however you are responsible for it's unscientific nature since you are quoting it.

To survey this incident correctly you must be specific and avoid broad associations. You can't ask "Do you believe in a conspiracy in 9/11" It's far too broad based and wide open for manipulation.

Now ask your survey group. "Do you believe the President, Congress, The military, the New York Fire and Police Department, The FFA, American Airlines all were part of a vast conspiracy to murder 3000 innocent American citizens?

Now look at your response. The only ones who agree to this fantasize in absurdity due mostly to social interaction deficiency and historicist self-importance issues.

Any survey needs precise boundaries to avoid a group of undecided be more than 10% of the final responses. This is textbook statistics research guidelines and the difference between a scientific survey and one that is misleading.

Ask the following:

Do you believe the 23 witnesses that testified under oath that they saw an America Airlines aircraft plunge into the Pentagon were.

A. They were collectedly lying as part of a conspirator plan
B. They were brainwashed by Bush and Chaney.
C. They saw holograms.
D. They testified as to what they witnessed.

Now if you ask 100 people this question the only ones who choose anything other than D have issues with their ability to reason deductively.

Any survey with more that 10% undecided is too broad based and therefore unscientific. The questions need to be more precise.

The vast majority of these conspiracies are so outlandish that anyone can see the lack of logic in them. Blind paranoia isn't new. But it isn't a crime either. Quite frankly, it's easy to ignore of write off someone who is obviously not using logic or common sense. These people disqualify themselves from the discussion with no problem.

I disagree. When someone like Christopher Bollyn releases a public statement like this:

"The government inspired 9-11 atrocity proves Bush and his accomplices are criminals, traitors and imposters"

If you make a public statement like that with no evidence other than paranoia then you have insulted someone unfairly and you are now opened to be called whatever I want to call you.

'Truther' is mild compared to idiot, insane provocateur and a host of others. In the past 3 decades I have had my ups and downs with the American government-some of it was self-inflicted-some of it was not. I still have enough respect for this countries institutions that I will defend them against blind ignorance. Especially when this ignorance is peddling lunacy.

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin


You are getting desperate a bit...


rewritting history ???

Ha ha...good one...that goes both way.

The OS is on the losing downward slope...the story is closer to being shattered than ever. I just can't wait to start gloating.

reply to post by spooky24


I cant help but feel you only read the first part of the OP,

Usually I agree with you but on this i have to say I think you might be "way off".

The majority of your post was regarding the use of the statistics, I only put them in to demonstrate that 9/11 truth is far form a fringe believe and that there is a sizable proportion of the population who have doubts about the offical story. Of of these does as "who do you think was responsible?; Al-Qa'ida, US government, Israel, other, dont know" and only 46% said Al-Qa'ida. In addition to that I do acknowledge that statistics can be play about with and are not absolute, I make this quite clear in the OP.

The real issue behind this thread is not so much how many people believe in 9/11 conspiracies but rather the danger that these conspiracies could represent to the historical narrative in years to come and how people seem to blindly believe them when what they presume to be facts have are actually highly debatable issues.

reply to post by _BoneZ_


There is nothing professional about any of those organizations, except for professional snakeoil salesmen.