shooting point blank

Again, you cannot armchair-quarterback battle. If you listen to the audio, there was alot of anxiety in their voices over a wounded insurgent.

Maybe that's because a tactic the insurgents were fond of is faking death and then pulling out a pistol when the troops got close enough.

Here is the text:

(soldier one) "He's f'ing faking he's dead! He faking he's f'ing dead!"

POW

(Soldier two) "He's dead now."

[edit on 15-11-2004 by Ibn Iblis]

Originally posted by Ibn Iblis


(Soldier two) "He's not faking anymore."

[edit on 15-11-2004 by Ibn Iblis]

Mmmm makes me warm and fuzzy inside. It's nice to know the men fighting terrorism are also the ones creating terrorist acts.
All I'm saying is I've seen the video a few times, his is avery elderly, very badly wounded man. He is slumped over a dead body and has been left in that stae for more nearly twenty four hours. A real match for a young fit armed marine in a the company of several others of the same.

Here is the edited version that blacks out the footage of the head shot.

media.militaryphotos.net...

I sense a mocking tone in his voice. Followed by the Hollywood line at the end "Not faking now...". I think the brass were right to take him off the battlefield.

Semper Fi, Marine...

[edit on 15-11-2004 by cargo]

yeah that's the version they are showing on the news.Thank god it is edited at the end though.

I dont even want to guess what the guy was thinking, he was shot in the face the day before, one of his buddies was killed by a boobytrapped body, I guess war does things to you...

Not that I condone it, but I want the facts before passing judgement.

The camera seems to pan left just before the shot so it's hard to tell which one the Marine shoots in the head. I saw the old man against the wall moving, but he pans off camera just before the shot is fired.

I have seen a lot of violent footage before so I am pretty well prepared for it. I just wish there was un unedited version to better illustrate what happened. Very annoying.

Let's put all of this into perspective.

First of all, these soldiers are in combat for hours upon hours at a time. They've seen their friends injured, maybe killed. This soldier was just shot in the face only HOURS beforehand. If this soldier violated the law, if he broke the rules and regulations, if there was a crime, he will be punished.

This is one of the most maddening things about some of you haters hanging on every story of American "war crimes" in Iraq. The perpetrators of Abu Ghraib are, one by one, being sent to the pen. This soldier, at the very least, will be under investigation. He has been removed from the battlefield.

While our troops were putting women's undergarments on Iraqi prisoners, who were not civilians, the jihadists were burning and mutilating civilians, hanging their corpses from a bridge. They were taking people hostage, humiliating them on camera before beheading them. Just for a moment imagine what it must feel like to have your head cut off with a dull knife. For all we know the insurgent this soldier shot might have taken part in one of these killings. There was a slab of flesh found in the middle of the streets. It was a Westerner with blonde hair. Her arms and legs were cut off, her throat was slashed.

All of this went on and I doubt any of you crying about this executed insurgent gave a crap.

Meanwhile this insurgent was killed inside of a Mosque. It's against international law to fight in a Mosque. Or a hospital. Or a school. That's what these people do. They plant IEDs on dead bodies. They used civilians as human shields and then shot them in the back of the head when they were no longer useful.

If this guy did anything wrong he will be punished. Why that would not be good enough for you is beyond me. Even more ridiculous is that you should care about the "human being" he killed.

Human beings don't act like that.

Originally posted by Ibn Iblis
Even more ridiculous is that you should care about the "human being" he killed.

I feel and I hope everyone else on here feels that if you are insinuating that the victim was less than human by that remark then it is a very callous way to think. That is going down the road of Nazism and Nietzsche ideology of the Supermen. Very dangerous ground to walk upon.

Iblis is a racist troll. His warning badges are testiment.

Just ignore him.

Originally posted by The Teller
I saw the film and I was disgusted. If that what human beings have become then god help us all. This was not an act of war, this was not retaliation this was simple murder. If this act was carried out in Texas the Marine would be on death row.

I ahve to ask, do you have all the facts? read through the thread and take another look..

Originally posted by cargo
Iblis is a racist troll. His warning badges are testiment.

Just ignore him.

Yeah, click the badges to see what a racist troll I am.

Anytime you want a shot at the title chump have your agent call my agent.

Ibn Iblis
were you suggesting that because the man was either Iraqi, an insurgent or actually whatever that he was less than human?
I seem to be confused about your comment and I am offering you a chance to respond and clarify your statement.

I think I made it clear that the insurgents are less than human and outlined my reasons for saying so.

Maybe you can read the post again.
www.ogrish.com...

"Freedom fighters".


[edit on 16-11-2004 by Banshee]

Ibn Iblis
I gave you the benefit of the doubt but now I am sickened by you.
You are tantamount to no less than a Nazi. I would not trust you around human beings in case you decided one man, woman or child was less than human and took your fascist rage out upon them. God help us if you ever have power.

Originally posted by SE7EN
They didn't shoot the guy that was helping them maybe they took him away cause it never showed them shooting him. What you have to remember is this is war and they have a job todo those guys inside are terrorist or iraq insurgants and deserved what they got. Just shows them and anyone else that your not safe from UK/US troops and you will be delt with swiftly.

Hmmmm. In USMC Boot Camp we were taught to always render first aid to wounded enemies and civilians when possible, after disarming them, and then follow the unit SOP for handling prisoners, which generally detail how to move them to a safe area. We were taught to report instances of prisoner abuse or summary executions since those were war crimes. Summary execution in the field is not how US Marines or Soldiers are supposed to deal with prisoners.

Like a few other people said, there are quite a few things that these troops have to worry about. Were they worried about bombs in this case? Who knows.

Aside from that, fighting for your life for a week will change you. It will change how you make desisions and decisions are made on a much more viseral level. I can't say what I would do after shooting at people and being shot and shot at for several days with no sleep.

We can all be thankful that it is not any of us in that situation and having to make decisions under this kind of stress.

Say a prayer for all the parties in this case.

War is hell

Is it me,or does it seem that this war has alot of criminal activity going on.I mean it is like watching a NAM movie man.I understand they are there to do a job,but some are going to extream and going beyond the call of duty.
They seem to have that Sean Penn ala' Casualties of War demenor man.

I think I made it clear that the insurgents are less than human and outlined my reasons for saying so.

Maybe you can read the post again.
www.ogrish.com...

"Freedom fighters".


[edit on 16-11-2004 by Banshee]

Okay, your point being? It's a kid smiling and a body of a man/women of God knows what decent dangling...

What do you want us to do about that? Kill all the Islamic peoples due to some arbritrary body?

Come on..

Deep

Well, Ibn Iblis, I have to say, your posts have been well-reasoned and to the point. There have been far too many instances of our troops being wounded or killed by booby trapped bodies, or fake injuries. There was no reason this person should have been in the mosque - no, "worship" is not plausible, not in Fallujah at this point.

How was our soldier to know if this guy wasn't laying on a hand grenade? They have done such things in the past, far too often. They have used ambulances to wreak death on innocents at a hospital.

by talibunsu
Hmmmm. In USMC Boot Camp we were taught to always render first aid to wounded enemies and civilians when possible, after disarming them, and then follow the unit SOP for handling prisoners, which generally detail how to move them to a safe area

Of course, the key phrase here is "after disarmng them", isn't it?

Our troops are well advised to suspect the worst when approaching one of these terrorists. It's the only safe way of being sure to walk away alive, at least for one more day.

I salute the Marine, and wish him and his company a safe return.

Originally posted by The Teller
Ibn Iblis
I gave you the benefit of the doubt but now I am sickened by you.
You are tantamount to no less than a Nazi. I would not trust you around human beings in case you decided one man, woman or child was less than human and took your fascist rage out upon them. God help us if you ever have power.

Get a hold of yourself. You're hysterical.

Originally posted by ZeroDeep

Okay, your point being? It's a kid smiling and a body of a man/women of God knows what decent dangling...

What do you want us to do about that? Kill all the Islamic peoples due to some arbritrary body?

Come on..

Deep

Again, more hysterical ranting. Where did I say kill all Islamic peoples? You're ridiculous. Again, read about and look at what they did. Watch them behead Nick Berg. Kim Il Sun. Ken Bigley. Why would you feel sorry for them if they get their just desserts?

Like I said, IF this soldier broke the law, he'll be punished. That's more than we can say for them. They've broken every rule of combat in the book. Using civlians as human shields. Dressing as Iraqi policemen. They don't wear a uniform. They fight out of schools, hospitals, and places of worship (mosques). They take hostages, humiliate them on video and behead them. Burning and dismembering their bodies. These people don't abide by any standard of conduct, not are they accountable to any judicial body. The only justice they'll be delivered, if any at all, is death at the hands of our soldiers.

And you show compassion for them...we have to use ordnance specialists (bomb squad) to deal with the disposal of dead bodies for Christ's sake.

[edit on 16-11-2004 by Ibn Iblis]