The Rise of the Order of the Assassins

S&F
I learned something today and for that I an one happy guy!
Top notch work you do, I wish I had the skill set to do the same...

this is all covered thoroughly in bill coopers mystery Babylon series which can be found on youtube.

the assassins are just one chapter in the long story of the mystery schools.

reply to post by Bybyots


Hey there.... I have only read half of your post so far....... i will finish later.

however... it got me thinking. Being that your so interested in this subject, have you ever played Assassins Creed?

If not, then i advise to get a console and start playing.

reply to post by Bybyots


The book The Walking Drum, by Louis L'amour deals with these guys. His works are always a good read, and excellently researched. Just a little FYI if you want to check it out.

Very nice thread OP'er. As you can see by my avatar it's a subject I quite enjoy, and although I've read up on it a little. Mostly fictional lore of the AC series. When you delve into topics like Assassins and Templars you have to go in with the mind that alot of it may be false or just plain misdirection.

Only 16 more days until AC IV Black Flag is released.

I've always found the historical information in the assassin creed games quite fascinating. While most will discount it, saying the majority of it is twisted from fact..., I often think alot of what is written in "history books" in school have twisted facts as well.

"Nothing is true;everything is permitted."

His "Propagandists" would waltz in to some area and declare the end of the world, the arrival of the Mahdi (messiah), and the Final Judgement

Uh, Michelle Bachmann just declared we are in the end times. Maybe she's an assassin?

But seriously, this was an excellent thread, thank you!

An interesting thread OP S&F! The Assassins were an interesting group.I have always found it interesting that in most histories of the Crusades it's rarely mentioned that they worked with the Templars.Just one of those little historic tid bits that tend to be ignored.

Assassin's Creed is my favorite game series of all time. If you are interested in this you HAVE to play this game. Anyone into conspiracies should. The depth and scope of the storyline and the real-world relevance is astounding.

Amoral as it may be, political assassination has the potential to saves lives.

Wars can be avoided, tyrants dethroned, regimes changed...

Better to remove the head of state than to drag the state into full scale conflict. One for the many right?

Politicians might behave as they should knowing that at any moment a hidden hand could strike them down for supporting unfair or unscrupulous policies instead of sending throngs of poor people off to war for some dubious cause.

As it stands, this is a violent world. The universe is a violent place. There seems to be very few aspects of nature that are not violent, at least in some cursory form. We have the wherewithal to change or alter our environment... to an extent. We might be able to change the ambient temperature in our homes but that doesn't change the surface temp of the sun. Some things are unavoidable. So we do what we can.

The weather is violent, but nobody blames the weather for lacking morality.

It happens regardless of our approval rating. We may detest and protest violence in every form but that will never stop it from happening. There is a large rock hurtling through space with our name on it. Flower power isn't going to slow it down or knock it off course. Violence is a constant. Love and understanding won't keep anyone from being robbed or beaten. There might be isolated incidents of the adverse being true, but those are the exceptions, not the rule.

It is unrealistic to expect everyone in the world to just start playing nice. That might work for some of us. Some. We can change our individual perceptions, thoughts and feelings but we cannot change the human condition or natural law. We are a violent species in the current stage of our evolution, short of a million years can we honestly say that aspect of humanity will ever change? If so... then we wouldn't be Human anymore. Embrace your humanity. Longing for days past or those yet to come doesn't really alter the here & now.

That is not the glorification of violence, just realism.


Great thread btw.

p.s.
Is it not true that some Masonic orders still utilize hash in some rituals or for specific purposes? Don't deny guys, you're busted. Smoke 'em if you got 'em.

Thanks to everyone that helped to support this thread.

Bybyots
Thanks to everyone that helped to support this thread.

edit on 15-10-2013 by Bybyots because: .

Encore! Encore!

reply to post by Mugen


Hey Mugen,

You remember those thin full color picture books that can sometimes be found in hobby stores that sell military miniatures that have all the images of soldier's in uniform with their equipment from different historical periods?

I hope so, because I do and I can't find the damned things now on the web.

Anyway, this thread got me to thinking that it might be fun to do a series on some of the stranger armies and soldiers from history. Something like "History's Weird Warriors". So there might be an encore after all. The idea is up for grabs if you want to do a few. I can help with formatting if you would like or need the help.

I don't know who next, Gurkhas? Sikhs? Roman Mithraists?

Bybyots
reply to post by Mugen

 

Hey Mugen,

You remember those thin full color picture books that can sometimes be found in hobby stores that sell military miniatures that have all the images of soldier's in uniform with their equipment from different historical periods?

I hope so, because I do and I can't find the damned things now on the web.

Anyway, this thread got me to thinking that it might be fun to do a series on some of the stranger armies and soldiers from history. Something like "History's Weird Warriors". So there might be an encore after all. The idea is up for grabs if you want to do a few. I can help with formatting if you would like or need the help.

I don't know who next, Gurkhas? Sikhs? Roman Mithraists?

When younger I read so many books I never know if it was actual history I once read or a historical fictional account. I remember what I read sometimes but not the source.

The Scythians - the Greeks' name for this nomadic people- inhabited Scythia from the 8th century BCE to the 2nd century CE and from what I remember they kicked Rome's butt on their border more than once. Being pragmatic Rome hired the Scythians at one time to be used as a auxiliary Calvary unit. Their use of bow and horse preceded Attila by many hundreds of years... If I remember correctly their deeds......?

No matter, I have always had a rather heart felt esteem for them; maybe I was one of their horses in a prior life?? hahahha

reply to post by Mugen


Oh Dudeman,

I got it! The The Cult of Sol Invictus!. I have dibs on that one.

Coming soon to a thread near you!

reply to post by 727Sky


Ah man, I love learning about the historical Scythians and Sarmatians. All of the pastoralists from the Black Sea region; geez, pastoralist cultures in general: I really like them a lot.

Knife sharpening music...

OP you were warned....expect a visit soon..
























Only messing great read OP well researched and it sure would make a decent movie
S&F

I'm just curious, if anyone happens to still be paying attention. What kind of society, or maybe, what would be the qualities of a society that could be so easily thrown in to turmoil at the mere mention of the end of the world and the Final Judgement?

I think that they would have to be very isolated and feeding off of some sort of doctrine that encouraged that isolation. At least in this day and age. Previous to secularization, this was probably fairly easy to accomplish in many parts of Europe and the Colonies. After secularization, there is just other groups pointing at the panicked group asking, "What's wrong with them?" or maybe after they hear about the mass suicide on the news, "What was wrong with them?".

Getting one person to become convinced that the world is ending is one thing, but getting a whole community to do it en masse is another. It makes me wonder about post 20th century occult organizations in America and Europe, seems to me that they would be the perfect little microcosms within which to "pull a Hassan".

Anyone have any thoughts on that weirdness?

Bybyots
I'm just curious, if anyone happens to still be paying attention. What kind of society, or maybe, what would be the qualities of a society that could be so easily thrown in to turmoil at the mere mention of the end of the world and the Final Judgement?

I think that they would have to be very isolated and feeding off of some sort of doctrine that encouraged that isolation. At least in this day and age. Previous to secularization, this was probably fairly easy to accomplish in many parts of Europe and the Colonies. After secularization, there is just other groups pointing at the panicked group asking, "What's wrong with them?" or maybe after they hear about the mass suicide on the news, "What was wrong with them?".

Getting one person to become convinced that the world is ending is one thing, but getting a whole community to do it en masse is another. It makes me wonder about post 20th century occult organizations in America and Europe, seems to me that they would be the perfect little microcosms within which to "pull a Hassan".

Anyone have any thoughts on that weirdness?

Sure i got thoughts. I'm just not sure i'm following exactly. I've had a few to drink tonight.

What you said reminded me of Nazi Germany. And sadly, modern day America. Or modern, World in general.

You say, "what would be the qualities of a society that could be so easily thrown in to turmoil at the mere mention of the end of the world" I say, look around. We haven't changed that much have we? Considering the 6,000- 122,677,110 years we've been around? (yes i pulled those numbers out my arse)

Hey Bybyots. I'm going to send you a PM later tonight concerning collaborating.

SlackOps
Amoral as it may be, political assassination has the potential to saves lives.

Wars can be avoided, tyrants dethroned, regimes changed...

Better to remove the head of state than to drag the state into full scale conflict. One for the many right?

I hate to put smudges on those rose tinted spectacles but the evidence completely contradicts your rather skewed idealism. In the vast majority of cases, assassinations, especially those that are politically motivated, have resulted in an increase of suffering for the populations involved, directly led to violent civil wars, and to an amplification of radical militantism. As often as not, by removing the head of state, particularly by foreign governments or corporate interests, the motive and consequence has been the economic exploitation of that nations resources to the detriment of the population affected by installation of a puppet regime. In some instances those assassinations have served the sole purpose of instigating conflict rather than preventing it.

I would agree that assassination has the potential to save lives, but that is so very seldom the case that such a benefit is negligible to the bigger picture. We live in a violent world, sure, but comparing natures forces with assassination is a rather obtuse comparison. We live in a violent world because it is in the interest of the few, to use the might of the many, directed from the safety of their ivory towers, to further line their pockets. Out of the many hundreds of assassinations that have occurred throughout history, I can use one hand to count those assassinations that have been of any benefit, in terms of providing humanitarian relief to the populations concerned. I haven't got enough fingers and toes combined to count the assassinations that have directly led to the violent and bloody deaths of thousands.