Alaska Sinks As Climate Change Thaws Permafrost

reply to post by JayinAR


Please tell me how I contradicted myself...

reply to post by deadcalm

Climate changes will continue to happen...the only question is whether we can adapt to those changes or not.

EXACTLY!!!!

What else really needs to be said?

All the arguing back and forth is a waste of time and breath... it is what it is.... CHANGE is the ONLY constant in this reality.

The climate changes... can we adapt? If we are to survive, then we must adapt.

reply to post by Kali74


"Nobody claimed the arctic ice sheets grew. What was claimed was the sea ice grew."..

Yeah...that's what I said.

The sheets are 60% larger than they were this time last year.
Saying that doesn't mean they grew and instead just didn't melt is a semantical difference I choose not participate in.

In the end, the "projections" are grossly inaccurate. Hell, there was supposed to be no ice right about now.
*puts thumbs in ears and waves with tongue out*

reply to post by VoidHawk

The fact is it's completely unproven! It's a THEORY, and thats all it is, but there's money to be made, and global laws to control people can be put in place if they can pull it off.

The ice is thickening as we type! and the temps have been cooling for many years now, yet they continue spouting this THEORY, a theory created by the same people who told us back in the 60's that there was a serious risk we were heading into another ice age!

There's a lot of theories that are accepted reality, gravity for one... which is an obvious one but still I use that to make a point. When a theory becomes accepted, that's because it is obvious.

The ice is not thickening nor are temperatures cooling. Both sea ice and land ice in both the arctic and antarctic are losing volume very rapidly. Global mean temperatures have been pretty stagnant over the last 15 years or so but still rising .06C degrees, that is not cooling.

reply to post by Kali74


Gravity is not a theory. It is a LAW.
Big difference.

Science "ain't your thang", is it?

reply to post by JayinAR

Yeah...that's what I said.

That's not what you said. You said it again.

The sheets are 60% larger than they were this time last year

The sheets (which are on LAND) did not grow 60% and no one ever claimed such, except you. Sea ice (which is on the OCEAN) melted less. If you look at sea ice extent for 2012 and then for 2014 you will see that extent is NOT 60% larger, it's just not as small this year as it was in 2013. The ice extent does not grow during melt season... that isn't semantics.

JayinAR
reply to post by Kali74

 

Gravity is not a theory. It is a LAW.
Big difference.

Science "ain't your thang", is it?

For now... *conspiracy eyes*

reply to post by JayinAR


It's actually BOTH. We don't understand everything about gravity yet, thus much of it remains theory. But we do know that if you drop something it falls to the ground, that we know is... law.

reply to post by Kali74


The same can be said for most "laws". The laws of motion for instance. Which appear tied to the law of gravity.

If we understood their mechanics, we would have a unified field. As it stands we do not.

And you misinterpret theory. Saying "we don't know why that works" does not make it a scientific theory. It makes it a scientific problem.
Theories are comprised of laws and facts that form predictive models of behavior.

Gravity, in and of itself, is simply a law. It happens.

How does this relate to the sea ice? Pretty closely actually. The politicos are trying to blame you and I for a process they do not understand and guilt us into paying for it.

Some of you people take their BS hook, line and sinker. Some of us do not.

reply to post by Kali74


One of the latest measurements using accurate satellite data. Which was later confirmed

While conducting these tests ESA found that the measurements from their 2010-2011 campaigns show the height of Antarctic ice to be an average of nine centimetres higher than the measurements from their 2008-2009 campaigns.

search.yahoo.com...=A0oG7iZ7FFZSnCkAD3FXNyoA;_ylu=X3o'___'EzMTl2dGMzBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDNwRjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkA1ZJUDI4M18x/SIG=131h3spf7/EXP=1381 401851/**http%3a//en.mercopress.com/2012/03/31/height-of-antarctica-ice-sheet-increasing

According to findings come from the Europe’s Space Administration ESA’s ice-measuring satellite, CryoSat, over the last two years Antarctica’s ice sheet has increased in height.

www.esa.int...

According to the ESA press release, there was a five cm drop of the height of Antarctic ice from 1991-2000 that continued until 2008. ESA does not yet have information explaining why the ice height has increased, but are encouraged at the possible upward trend.

Didn't I read someplace Al Gore was thinking about making an offer for Tweeter?
search.yahoo.com...=A0oG7khcF1ZSixgAFwtXNyoA;_ylu=X3o'___'EzbjFqbm52BHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDNQRjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkA1ZJUDI4M18x/SIG=15sbglj66/EXP=1381 402588/**http%3a//www.forbes.com/sites/jeffbercovici/2013/10/09/al-gore-tried-to-buy-twitter-what-if-hed-succeeded/%3fcommentId=comment_blogAndPostId/ blog/comment/1165-15749-10745

In other words, Gore was trying to buy a company that two companies he worked for were also (reportedly) trying to buy within the same timeframe of a few months. (I’m not even going to get into all the conflicts that went along with his being a partner in the venture capital firm Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers. In Silicon Valley, that kind of thing isn’t even an afterthought.)

In fact, just a few months before all this, Gore and Joel Hyatt, his partner in Current TV, had attempted to sell the network to Google, where, again, Gore was a senior advisor, and which, they suggested, could merge it with YouTube. “Google, after giving consideration to the idea, never made an offer,” Hyatt told me via email when I asked about it recently. “Instead, they stated that they were not going to acquire a television network. I continue to believe that the idea made great sense for Google and YouTube.”

Gotta admit the father of the Global warming salesmen really has some big boy contacts.. He is smart, he is rich, and certainly knows how to make money after his failed attempt to become president...

Guys Kali74 has done allot of research about the climate change stuff... In most cases she presents some good data we should look at and evaluate based on the who, what, where principle. It is very hard to stay up with the latest findings and when the findings are presented the faithful from either side want to claim the report is an anomaly.

The global warmers (climate change people) have caused many to lose faith in their claims of doom and despair because many see it as just another money scam. The damage has been done to their credibility through their own fault and inaccurate data used in their computer models.

Most on both sides are saying that by 2030 we will know if we are entering another Ice age or in fact global warming has taken over, or heaven forbid it is a natural cycle .
www.wnd.com...

“That’s the result that they get when you premeditate your science,” said Dr. Tim Ball, former professor of climatology at the University of Winnipeg. “When you set out to establish a certain scientific outcome and you program your computers to do that, you shouldn’t be surprised if that’s the result you get. The problem is what they’re getting out of their computers is not fitting with what’s actually happening. Of course, that’s been the problem with the IPCC all along.”

“We’re heading toward what occurred around the year 1800. It was called the Dalton Minimum of low sunspot activities,” he explained. “We certainly are down to that in number of sunspots this year. That means the cooling will continue at least until 2030 and yet the government is preparing for warming, which is outrageous. Some people think that this cycle of sunspot activity and global cooling will take us down to as cold as it was around 1680, which was the nadir of the Little Ice Age.”

Throw in a few volcanos and ?
If people and countries cannot grow food because the land where they live is frozen, what is the world going to do and who will they (?) blame to get your money? This is a serious question. If the Earth warms even 5c we as a species will adapt and survive because food plants will still grow... If the climate cools by the same 5c (unless greenhouse farming can feed the multitudes) we will have an extinction event caused by food shortages like many times before in Earth's history. All one has to do is look at different societies that packed up and moved or died out due to some extended climate change in their domicile. Packing an moving with the geopolitical boundaries of today would be very problematic if not impossible; a few yes, but for multitudes, no.

There are plenty of weather guesses or computer programs which do not reflect observations yet are claimed to be correct therefore run for the hills or pay us money!.
www.nationen.no... www.fk.no...

“The official view in Norway is in contrast to what the people experience because of cooling weather: Late spring gives flooding and avalanches when late snow-melting in the mountains. Water pipes freeze because of early and deep frost in the winter. Insect populations down 40% in 5 years because of cool and wet summers. This of cause is bad for pollination of fruit and berries.”

Some of this stuff is because more people are looking at what is going on, and for once we are starting to get some good data... Now if they use the data in future models we might get a better idea of what is happening .... we will know because the models will reflect past and current observations.
I would rather see a warmer earth even by 5c than a colder one by the same amount... Just me.

MystikMushroom
reply to post by burdman30ott6

 

That's not the "North Pole" -- it's a little town called North Pole. It's outside of Fairbanks and they have a fake Santa house with reindeer you can pet.

Climate change? We all laugh because it's been colder and dryer the past few winters. The summers have been cooler and wetter too. Typical convo last summer (2012):

"I wish we could have ONE week of sun!"

"I know, global warming my #!"

I find it funny really that people who do not live think that they "know" what is and isn't Alaska weather. I have lived in this great state for just shy of 30 years, these last 2 winters have been some of the worst (if not the worst) I have experienced here. Talking to some of the sourdoughs even they admit they have been bad. I will agree that there has been some screwy weather the past couple of years, but this weather pattern according to a few meteorologists from the military and civilian side, a lot of this has to do with the sun's current activity. Also this does fit with the other planets of the system warming as well, unless we have a super secret space program sending our suv's to other planets.... Just saying... /end sarcasm...

grim

reply to post by MamaJ

If we are to survive, then we must adapt.

We have always had to adapt, earth is a hostile planet.

reply to post by 727Sky


Thanks for the kind shoutout

You're partially correct and I should have been more specific. Most of Antarctic Ice is unchanged, some is thickening, but some is in fact losing volume.

This 1995-2010

reply to post by Grimmley


But the sun's activity has been on the low side (we're getting less energy from it) and the other planets aren't warming. Think about it like this, if the sun was warming ALL the planets how hot would Earth have to get for Neptune to be experiencing solar induced warming?

Here is a good video about what happens when the permafrost melts too fast. I wonder at what point the governments around the world will collaborate and start to enforce reduction of carbon emissions to preserve the ability of some humans to survive this event. It appears that there are a lot of scientists backing this theory.

www.michiganliberal.com...

Here is another prediction from some organization. It is within the lifetime of my children.

www.sciencedaily.com...

I suppose the earth could fix this by setting off major earthquakes and volcanic eruptions. They are not figuring in the earths response to warming. Spinning air currents should increase prior to this action by the earth. At least the volcanic winter will fix the problem of warming. Nothing to fear. My hopes of nicer climate here in the near future may never develop though, we may head right back into a fast ice age. I look back at past perception of what the earth does to fix this problems. I feel it will somehow correct itself.

If on site reporting, so to speak , means anything BRRRRRRRRRR! it has been colder than normal here.

The Pacific waters have been colder also and messing with Salmon runs.

I've heard from two sources who work on the Slope that the Polar Bear population is getting out of hand locally up there and they now have to post armed guards often to work. So much for that myth.

When real evidence from people on site does not match computer models which may be flawed and are being run on computers nowhere near powerful enough for the purpose, it's not unreasonable to at least consider the real data.

15 years and not a sign of Global Warming even in the data from the UN folks.

Ice returned with a vengeance in the Arctic.

Record cold winter and summer.

At what point do facts enter into science these days? Or is sensationalizing to justify funding more important to science now? I think that is the real truth.

No person on Earth has enough data to predict anything. No computer powerful enough to even run a valid model exists.

Follow the money is a good rule of thumb IMO.

reply to post by VoidHawk


Nice, I love this, they should be doing this anyway.

What I don't understand though is people saying they don't trust the government because they say they are making it up so they can tax us some more? I especially don't get this because I live in Australia and our newly elected government just scrapped the tax on carbon we had and got rid of the whole government organisation which dealt with climate change. Our prime minister doesn't believe in it.

I believe in it, probably caused by us as well, doing something about it would be nice as we'd have cleaner air and water for everyone. But I don't think anyone is going to and that doesn't matter. It seems kind of natural that as a species we do everything we can to keep infesting, breeding and surviving, pay the consequences, then the earth starts anew in whatever form it might be without us or not.

I wish more people would stop arguing about this and just focus on loving and learning from one another, embracing what we have now, trying to be better humans, treating the earth with respect because that is why we are here.

I am very doubtful on this story and claims as its only showing one part of the section in the pictures.

reply to post by speculativeoptimist


Thanks for posting that, never caught it before. Sadly Schneider died a couple of weeks after that from a terminal illness. I hope more people that comment on global warming/climate change will give that a watch.

reply to post by Kali74


That I can not tell you. I do know that I have been told by these people, it does have something to with the sun primarily. As for the rise in temperature solar system wide, was reported a few years ago, stating there was a uniformed rise in the temperature. I am not saying man has NOTHING to do with affecting the environment, however, there have been enough eruptions of volcanoes, releases of methane from the ocean floor from seismic events. I do not buy into the U.N.s, Gores or any other OMG OMG the world is going to end send me money, stop using anything for fuel type bs, there has been way to many people coming out against the false claims of these idiots.

Grim