Roadmap or Road to Nowhere?

It is hard not to wonder occasionally whether Arafat isn't remarkably convenient for Israel: built-in "bad guy".
To be sure, I think he's finally learned that it's best to say little: if he condemns a bombing and the bombings stop -it looks like he was always responsible - if he condemns them and they don't stop it looks as though he's irrelevant, impotent (which is an approach explored by Israel much of the time).
If he condones them he's obviously guilty etc etc.

Focusing on Arafat skews the debate: the issues are not about Mr X and MR Y.
For that matter, even though Israeli leaders past and present have at least as much blood on their hands as Arafat, and probably rather more British and American blood, there's little to be gained from focusing on the people concerned.
It's about sovereignty, territory and the implementation of UN resolutions.

And, since the Palestinians have never had a "nation" since Israel was founded - it's fairly idle to speculate about what any future "nation" might, or might not, do.

on Arafat...but it should be obvious that he needs to be taken out of the equation, if there is to be any hope for peace, and the establishment of a Palestinian state. The bottom line is, Isreal is holding all of the cards, and they don't want to deal to Arafat, so there is no game, and thus, will be no Palestinian state until the game starts.... There are many other factors to be sure, and factors that are far more important than Arafat. But this one particular bad apple, can spoil the barrel....

From what I have read, there are the same arguments on both sides of this thing that there have been for 30+ years since Arafat became their leader. In those 30+ years we have many different Israeli leaders but the constant that doesn't change is Arafat, who btw is Egyptian and not a Palastinian anyway. He's there because where-ever he goes, he's trouble and no other Arab stste will have him so if he wants to stir the kettle, this is all he has left.

But the biggest point of all we have missed here is that in recorded history of conflicts be they religious, econnomic, or otherwise, there has never ever been a peace without a clear victor and loser. Reguardless of how many times you all bat the ball across the net, this will build to a conflict and it will be decided. I remind you all that several full Arab attacks on Israel ended most embarrassingly for them and their only goal now is the eradication of Jews from the face of the Earth. I also remind you that Isreal existed some 3000 years before Mohommed lived and will, reguardless of the hatred and whining, exist beyond this bloodthirsty plight as well. Now I don't live there and I'm not Jewish but I'm smart enough to see the writing on the wall.

Can someone tell me, Is "Jihad" translated into "kick my ass for me please" ?

"He's there because wherever he goes, he's trouble and no other Arab state will have him so if he wants to stir the kettle, this is all he has left."

Good point, and one I forgot to make....

Of course, silly me, I forgot. Arafat looks like he wants a seperate Palestinian state, but that 30 year history of fighting, and then talking, for one, that was all just Arafat trouble making. If it hadn't been Palestine it would've been something else. Please...

And as for this Israel won't deal with Arafat issue, that's all because of the past history between Sharron and Arafat. Sharron personally tried to kill Arafat back in the early 80s, he hates Arafat, absolutely hates him. Why should we be surprised that Israel won't talk to Arafat when Sharron's in power?

As for attacking Israel. You have got to be joking. Noone is going to take on their nuclear WMD capability in the region. Noone.

Peace needs to happen in the Middle East. Claiming that Arafat is a terrorist is all well and good, proving it is an entirely different thing. Show me the proof and I'll take you seriously. Otherwise I'll just assume that you're subjects of a totally successful media brainwashing campaign.

read it in Arafat's own words....

www.mfa.gov.il...

Blow up the text and then translate the arabic, if you're really so inclined...

What a trustworthy source...

Here's Chris Pattens response to the accusation that EU money ends up paying terrorists....

europa.eu.int...

"None of the documents provided by the Government of Israel has shown any indication or proof that the above mentioned persons or any known members of terrorist groups are on the PA payroll. The Commission has followed up this question with the PA, including the head of the Preventive Security forces in the West Bank. He informed us that Awis was a member of the security forces before the intifada, then stopped reporting to his post before the attacks he is accused of took place. According to the Preventive Security chief, Azouni and Abu Hania are not on the PA payroll."

"3. Do you consider it inconceivable that the PA maintains an unofficial shadow budget without the Commission�s knowledge based on a system of double bookkeeping?

The Palestinian Authority�s budgetary system requires that all revenues and expenditures are channelled through the Ministry of Finance�s Single Treasury Account at the Arab Bank in Gaza, including payments made by Israel, the EU and other international donnors. All revenues and expenditures are reflected in the overall PA budget. The IMF continuously monitors the implementation of this budget. It is therefore virtually impossible that the PA could maintain an unofficial shadow budget based on a system of double bookkeeping, and the Commission has no evidence to support claims to that effect."

Merely to cite the oleaginous Patten is to invite ridicule.
And of which Western country would this not be claimed as the truth. And they have no secret budgets?
One takes the point but this is prime-grade fatuity.

The "Liberty" is mentioned where in Israel's budgetary records? That much slaughter must have cost a shekel or two, even if the US tax-payer probably picked up the tab.
This won't do in educated company.

"Merely to cite the oleaginous Patten is to invite ridicule. "

Could you explain this comment please? I don't understand where that comes from. Patten's just a politican, used to be in the British government, looked after HK until it was handed back to China, and now works in Europe. Which bit of his professional history means that mentioning him invites ridicule?

Try his speech when he lost his Parliamentary seat.
He is the sort of refuse that gives s**t a bad name.
Or look at his record in HK.
When the toilet's full in England we send the floaters -by tripartisan agreement - to the colonies (not many left) and then Europe. Ask Kinnock ( or Mrs K.)

"Patten was accused by the Chinese of being a serpent and a "prostitute for a thousand generations". "

That's about the most damning thing I can find. You got any other links to actual reasons as to why quoting Patten invites ridicule?

"Do you consider it inconceivable that the PA maintains an unofficial shadow budget without the Commission�s knowledge based on a system of double bookkeeping"

Same way we budget money to build a multi-million dollar secret base I'm sure....

That was the question Gazrok, the answer was...

"The IMF continuously monitors the implementation of this budget. It is therefore virtually impossible that the PA could maintain an unofficial shadow budget based on a system of double bookkeeping, and the Commission has no evidence to support claims to that effect."

this funding isn't coming into, or being reported to the "budget", it's coming in from elicit sources, much like the funding for our black projects....drug smuggling, bogus charities, etc.

The black budget generally comes from legal US money. Aren't black budget projects paid for by skimming money of white budget projects? Why did this bolt cost $5M to develop? The illegal drug revenues just get passed on to the dictator of the moment to help them oppress the evil anti-US populace.

Although I doubt the PA itself would have a black budget. As Patten says, no evidence for it, plus most of these terrorist groups will do a better job of funding themselves. Regardless, if there's no evidence for it then I'd tend to dismiss it as a conspiracy theory promoted by Israel.

the $400 hammers, and $5000 toilet seats, But don't think there aren't unreported arms sales, etc. Ditto for the PLO....