Pope Francis Tosses Out Vatican Constitution. Rewrite Going On Oct 1-3

Some will say, why should I put forward such unimportant issue as the existence of life on remote planet. Or why to go back to Giordano Bruno if we are in 21st century. That is the problem. We are in 21st century but many within the church and not only, live as if they are several centuries behind schedule

Whatever the real case, it is evident the world has the capabilities to feed and heal billions of people. I don't know what more is awaited for after the trumped years 2000 and 2012. It will be very wrong that will be called "end times delusion of the antichrist".

Pope Francis, the reality pope. Less about conscription to biblical interpretations and more about what people are facing in this new era of earth's population.... Me? Was a catholic, only still a catholic in my interpretation that God and Jesus are real.... but the world has turned away, and justifiably so, to the vast inconsistencies in what religion is, and what it has been used for. You only need to look inward on your self. The rest is money = power = control = fear = you.

2012newstart
Some will say, why should I put forward such unimportant issue as the existence of life on remote planet. Or why to go back to Giordano Bruno if we are in 21st century. That is the problem. We are in 21st century but many within the church and not only, live as if they are several centuries behind schedule

edit on 6-10-2013 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)

i agree.
the belief system where earth is the only planet that supports lives is a heresy.
it is like believing that God is only capable of creating just this one inhabitable planet in this infinite universe.

it is as ugly as modern teaching where God works like a servant to Christians, where God's only job are hearing and fulfilling their wishes (only those who pay more Heavenly taxes will be prioritized)

FlyersFan
For those who think this is just another 'rewrite' ....

''Fr. Lombardi spoke of a “complete overhaul in the organisation of the Curia” in his briefing with journalists today: the Secretariat of State becomes the papal Secretariat

The Holy See waves goodbye to the Apostolic Constitution “Pastor Bonus” which regulates the way the Curia works. The Constitution is soon to be replaced by a new “Charter”. In today’s briefing with journalists, Vatican spokesman Fr. Federico Lombardi announced that the work of the “C8”, Francis’ eight-member group of cardinal advisors, would not involve “amendments or minor changes” but a “complete overhaul of the organisation of the Curia”. All the necessary amount of time needed for this process will be taken but the outcome has already been decided: the Pastor Bonus will be replaced by a “newly configured Constitution that will be include relevant points” and will be inspired on the principle of subsidiarity. The result will be a Curia that serves local Churches.''

The ''Curia'' are basically the admin guys.

The ''rewriting'' isn't actually any rewriting of Catholicism as due to it's belief in ''infallibility'' Pope's cannot undo or alter anything said or written or decreed by any previous Pope.

Therefore the reorganisation of the Curia is like a cabinet reshuffle, or office duty rethink. It isn't rewriting of anything substantial in it's nature.

The whole ''Hey, we are moving forward, we are progressive and can roll with contemporary society'' AKA ''not really, actually it is only shuffling the minions duties around a bit'' might be an attempt at trying to look more like a modern day entity, but also might be just trying to streamline the admin and trim a few salaries.

en.wikipedia.org...

The Roman Curia is the administrative apparatus of the Holy See and the central governing body of the entire Catholic Church, together with the Pope.[notes 1] It coordinates and provides the necessary central organization for the correct functioning of the Church and the achievement of its goals.
"In exercising supreme, full, and immediate power in the universal Church, the Roman pontiff makes use of the departments of the Roman Curia which, therefore, perform their duties in his name and with his authority for the good of the churches and in the service of the sacred pastors"[1]

— Decree concerning the Pastoral Office of Bishops in the Church, Christus Dominus
Curia in medieval and later Latin usage means "court" in the sense of "royal court" rather than "court of law". The Roman Curia, then, sometimes anglicized as the Court of Rome, as in the 1534 Act of Parliament that forbade appeals to it from England,[2] is the Papal Court, and assists the Pope in carrying out his functions. The Roman Curia can be loosely compared to cabinets in governments of countries with a Western form of governance, but only the Second Section of the Secretariat of State, known also as the Section for Relations with States, the Pontifical Commission for Vatican City State and the Congregation for Catholic Education, can be directly compared with specific ministries of a civil government.

It is normal for every Latin Catholic diocese to have its own curia for its administration. For the Diocese of Rome, these functions are not handled by the Roman Curia, but by the Vicariate General of His Holiness for the City of Rome, as provided by the Apostolic Constitution Ecclesia in Urbe. The Vicar General of Rome, traditionally a Cardinal, and his deputy the Vicegerent, who holds the personal title of Archbishop, supervise the governance of the diocese by reference to the Pope himself, but with no more dependence on the Roman Curia, as such, than other Catholic dioceses throughout the world. A distinct office, the Vicar General for Vatican City, administers the portion of the Diocese of Rome in Vatican City.

Until recently, there still existed hereditary officers of the Roman Curia, holding titles denominating functions that had ceased to be a reality when the Papal States were lost to the papacy. A reorganization, ordered by Pope Pius X, was incorporated into the 1917 Code of Canon Law. Further steps toward reorganization were begun by Pope Paul VI in the 1960s. Among the goals of this curial reform were the modernization of procedures and the internationalization of the curial staff. These reforms are reflected in the 1983 Code of Canon Law.[3] The offices of the Vatican City State are not part of the Roman Curia, which is composed only of offices of the Holy See. The following organs or charges, according to the official website of the Holy See, comprise the Curia.[4] It should be noted that all members of the Curia except the Cardinal Camerlengo and the Major Penitentiary resign their office immediately after a papal death or resignation. See sede vacante

reply to post by theabsolutetruth

The ''rewriting'' isn't actually any rewriting of Catholicism as due to it's belief in ''infallibility'' Pope's cannot undo or alter anything said or written or decreed by any previous Pope.

No, that's absolutely incorrect -- the Pope is only considered to be infallible under extremely limited circumstances, which has only happened two times in the history of the church (both since the 1800s.) There have been evil, stupid and heretical things done and said by Popes in the past, and the church admits that they were wrong.

So, yes, potentially, the rewriting is exactly that -- a wholesale revamping of the constitution, but, again, this has happened before and isn't really anything earthshaking.

adjensen
reply to post by theabsolutetruth

 

'' the Pope is only considered to be infallible under extremely limited circumstances, which has only happened two times in the history of the church (both since the 1800s.) There have been evil, stupid and heretical things done and said by Popes in the past, and the church admits that they were wrong.

You are wrong. Try reading words from the Vatican, that is 'the word' according to Catholicism. Perhaps you are thinking about a reinterpretation according to your particular branch or to a Catholic revisionist website, or to particular ''infallible pronouncements''

An infallible pronouncement—whether made by the pope alone or by an ecumenical council—usually is made only when some doctrine has been called into question. Most doctrines have never been doubted by the large majority of Catholics.

www.vatican.va...

"This religious submission of mind and will must be shown in a special way to the authentic Magisterium of the Roman Pontiff, even when he is not speaking ex cathedra; that is, it must be shown in such a way that his supreme Magisterium is acknowledged with reverence, the judgments made by him are sincerely adhered to, according to his manifest mind and will. His mind and will in the matter may be known either from the character of the documents, from his frequent repetition of the same doctrine, or from his manner of speaking" (LG 25).

This supreme authority of the papal Magisterium, to which the term apostolic has been traditionally reserved, even in its ordinary exercise derives from the institutional fact that the Roman Pontiff is the Successor of Peter in the mission of teaching, strengthening his brothers, and guaranteeing that the Church's preaching conforms to the "deposit of faith" of the apostles and of Christ's teaching. However, it also stems from the conviction, developed in Christian tradition, that the Bishop of Rome is also the heir to Peter in the charism of special assistance that Jesus promised him when he said: "I have prayed for you" (Lk 22:32). This signifies the Holy Spirit's continual help in the whole exercise of the teaching mission, meant to explain revealed truth and its consequences in human life.

For this reason the Second Vatican Council states that all the Pope's teaching should be listened to and accepted, even when it is not given ex cathedra but is proposed in the ordinary exercise of his Magisterium with the manifest intention of declaring, recalling and confirming the doctrine of faith. It is a consequence of the institutional fact and spiritual inheritance that completes the dimensions of the succession to Peter.

As you know there are cases in which the papal Magisterium is exercised solemnly regarding particular points of doctrine belonging to the deposit of revelation or closely connected with it. This is the case with ex cathedra definitions, such as those of Mary's Immaculate Conception, made by Pius IX in 1854, and of her Assumption into heaven, made by Pius XII in 1950. As we know, these definitions have provided all Catholics with certainty in affirming these truths and in excluding all doubt in the matter.

The reason for ex cathedra definitions is almost always to give this certification to the truths that are to be believed as belonging to the "deposit of faith" and to exclude all doubt, or even to condemn an error about their authenticity and meaning. This is the greatest and also the formal concentration of the doctrinal mission conferred by Jesus on the apostles and, in their person, on their successors.

Given the extraordinary greatness and importance that this Magisterium has for the faith, Christian tradition has recognized in the Successor of Peter, who exercises it personally or in communion with the bishops gathered in council, a charism of assistance from the Holy Spirit that is customarily called "infallibility."

Here is what Vatican I said on the matter:
"When the Roman Pontiff speaks ex cathedra, that is, when in exercising his office as shepherd and teacher of all Christians he defines with his supreme apostolic authority that a doctrine on faith and morals is to be held by the whole Church, through the divine assistance promised him in the person of St. Peter, he enjoys that infallibility with which the divine Redeemer wished to endow his Church in defining a doctrine on faith and morals. Therefore, these definitions of the Roman Pontiff are unreformable per se, and not because of the Church's consent" (DS 3074).

This doctrine was taken up again, confirmed and further explained by Vatican II, which states:
"And this is the infallibility which the Roman Pontiff, the head of the college of bishops, enjoys in virtue of his office, when, as the supreme shepherd and teacher of all the faithful, who confirms his brethren in their faith (cf. Lk 22:32), by a definitive act he proclaims a doctrine of faith or morals. And therefore his definitions, of themselves, and not from the consent of the Church, are justly styled irreformable, since they are pronounced with the assistance of the Holy Spirit, promised to him in blessed Peter, and therefore they need no approval of others, nor do they allow an appeal to any other judgment. For then the Roman Pontiff is not pronouncing judgment as a private person, but, as the supreme teacher of the universal Church, in whom the charism of infallibility of the Church itself is individually present, he is expounding or defending a doctrine of Catholic faith" (LG 25).

It should be noted that the Second Vatican Council also calls attention to the Magisterium of the bishops in union with the Roman Pontiff, stressing that they too enjoy the Holy Spirit's assistance when they define a point of faith in conjunction with the Successor of Peter:

"The infallibility promised to the Church resides also in the body of Bishops, when that body exercises the supreme Magisterium with the Successor of Peter.... But when either the Roman Pontiff or the body of bishops together with him defines a judgment, they pronounce it in accordance with revelation itself, which all are obliged to abide by and be in conformity with, that is, the revelation which as written or orally handed down is transmitted in its entirety through the legitimate succession of bishops...which under the guiding light of the Spirit of truth is religiously preserved and faithfully expounded in the Church" (LG 25).

The Council also says:
"Although the individual bishops do not enjoy the prerogative of infallibility, they nevertheless proclaim Christ's doctrine infallibly whenever, even though dispersed through the world, but still maintaining the bond of communion among themselves and with the Successor of Peter, and authentically teaching matters of faith and morals, they are in agreement on one position as definitively to be held. This is even more clearly verified when, gathered together in an ecumenical council, they are teachers and judges of faith and morals for the universal Church, whose definitions must be adhered to with the submission of faith. And this infallibility with which the divine Redeemer willed his Church to be endowed in defining doctrine of faith and morals, extends as far as the deposit of revelation extends" (LG 25).

More information on the beaurocratic re shuffle.

Things will always become as they truly are and reveal themselves in their true nature. Seeing as many organised religions are just a ''self serving elite'', it is inevitable that time and time again they will be revealed as such.

''Cardinals gathering in Rome before Francis was elected in March complained Vatican officials had become a self serving elite indifferent to the needs of dioceses around the world.''

www.telegraph.co.uk...

"Cardinal Maradiaga is hinting that the Pope is asking the fundamental question: What can be decided in Rome and what at local level? How can the Roman Curia serve bishops instead of being an office of censure and control?”
O’Connell cited Japanese bishops as victims of the Vatican’s centralisation.
“They must ask advice from Rome on the correct Japanese to use in their liturgies, yet you would think they would be the best judge.”
On Saturday, Francis gave another clear indication that he sees the Vatican as a hotbed of intrigue and power struggles when he instructed Vatican policemen on Saturday to crack down on gossip within the Vatican’s walls as well as looking out for intruders.

Cardinals gathering in Rome before Francis was elected in March complained Vatican officials had become a self serving elite indifferent to the needs of dioceses around the world.

Francis is also set to relax the control the Vatican exerts over the Italian conference of bishops, Italian media reported on Sunday. Unlike in other countries, the head of the Italian conference is not elected by bishops but picked by the pope, a system Francis is reportedly planning to scrap.

“The head of the conference wields political influence in Italy, so this move by the pope means the Vatican’s power over Italian politics will decline,” said Maria Antonietta Calabro, a Vatican expert at Italian daily Corriere della Sera. “The Pope has already told Italian bishops he wants them to deal with Italian politics, not the Vatican,” she added.

Francis last month said he would replace the Vatican’s long time secretary of state, Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone – who reportedly had frequent contact with Italian politicians – with Archbishop Pietro Parolin, the Vatican’s nuncio in Venezuela.

Show Times

The Vatican is the source of almost all existing obscurantism at the service of its temporal power.
Make no mistake, the Vatican and papacy's only purpose is "Infiltration of human consciousness" for the purpose of gaining temporal power over the state. In some cases, replacing the state. It's methods envision any kind of deceptive activity designed at exploiting Christianity as a kind of a trojan horse against the state to get to power.
Any other Christian movement or church in the past and still in the present is immediately attacked by the Vatican, as soon as this "Other" Christian church becomes a problem or issue for the temporal power of the Vatican and for its exerted control over other states.
The most infiltrated state of all is obviously Italy, but there are others as well.
The main difference between the Vatican and other christian churches, is that the Vatican actually exerts state power, and does not respond the the law of the country, because they ARE their own country.

originally posted by: FlyersFan
The seven other cardinals who will attend the meetings are ....... George Pell from Australia,

So the cover up of child abuse by paedophile priests will continue....

www.abc.net.au...