SSRI Medications Involved in Mass Shootings?

CirqueDeTruth
reply to post by CornShucker

 

Thanks for the info! Sadly, there is not a session available in my state. The closest is Ohio.

I wonder if this is related to the program my therapist wants me to enroll in that will send me to Florida to participate in for six weeks. It's not practical for me, as I've four minor children in the home, and a physically disabled husband. It's an inpatient program. I'll have to print off the information and discuss it with my therapist later this month when I go for a appt.

Thanks Again,
CdT

Usually I would shorten the amount of quoted text, but there's the possibility that someone else might benefit by seeing the full context of my response.

With a trained professional, EMDR can take place during office visits. I guess in extreme cases an intensive, inpatient treatment might be justified, but a lot can be accomplished without that kind of disruption of family life.

I like to use the computer analogy because of my background in IT and the comparison is VERY valid...

Here's a simple way of looking at EMDR:

PTSD messes us up because the traumatic memory becomes part of self-perpetuating loop. The memory is upsetting. Being upset makes the memory just that much worse. The situation feeds on itself and there needs to be a way to get our brain to break the cycle.

There was a time when "experts" believed the visual cortex lost the ability for much change by the time we became toddlers. In the recent past modern tech allowed researchers to prove that's not the case.

Okay... Here's where I jump to computers.

Back in my days as service manager for a local computer company there was a Radio Shack computer called the TRS-80 (affectionately known as the "trash 80" by some). Hard drives were primitive by today's standards and there wasn't even a way to put one in a the TRS-80, it was an external unit. Modern drives do a great job of protecting data, but back then it was still a new technology. If you had something like a customer data file that got accessed dozens of times a day, the area of the drive it was written to would eventually get "flaky" because of fluctuations in the magnetism. The drive wasn't actually bad, it was just due to wear and tear. Here is what I would have to do (this was WAY before the days of Windows).:

copy customer.dat customer.sav
ren customer.dat customer.old
ren customer.sav customer.dat

See what I did? The customer file would now be located on a different spot on the hard drive. Once I knew for sure it was safe, I would delete the original and they were back in business.

That, in effect, is what EMDR does with the traumatic memory. It doesn't always take on the first try, but eventually the memory isn't sitting in the same spot in your brain/mind feeding on itself. It's made an immense difference in my own life. The same memories that used to cause me anxiety/panic attacks are now just part of my past instead of constantly being part of my Present.

All My Best,
CornShucker

CirqueDeTruth
-- snip --
So now I'm on cognitive behavioral therapy - and doing much better.
-- snip --

Sometimes I think the majority of those who hesitate when it comes to getting into therapy do so because of their misconceptions of what it is. Just as not all doctors, mechanics, cops, etc. are the same, not all therapists are the same. It may turn out that the first one isn't the right one for you, but it can be incredibly valuable to talk to someone who is outside of your situation. That distance allows them to listen without being judgmental in the way that someone you know might.

I've never been able to track down the source of the quote, but I think of it often. "Only a madman has never doubted his sanity." Getting into therapy doesn't mean there's something "wrong" with you, it means you are willing to work at making your life better, none of us is perfect.

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin


I would expect a healthcare professional to understand the argument a little better than you. You're insincere in your attempts to generalize the oppositions point of view and act as if we're simply saying no one should take these drugs.

Listen, there's an apparent connection to violent behavior and these drugs. You have to bury your head in the sand not to notice that. Wanting to look deeper at that connection and ask questions does not in any way equate to proposing all SSRI's and similar drugs be banned. Not at all actually.

And to your point there's no in depth medical research backing up the connection shows ignorance to the medical industry and how studies are controlled. It's well known many drugs are put onto the market well before enough testing has been done on long term effects and many of us are treated as guinea pigs. Since you're in the medical field, how about you provide links showing in depth studies from the medical field on the apparent connection between violent behavior and SSRI's.

Oh that's right, there aren't any.

And I've dealt with this with a close family friend who suffered from depression and due to complications with medications committed suicide in a not too pleasant manner. Your dismissal of any connection and unwillingness to ask question is both ignorant and insulting to people who have dealt with this. It's also reflects a larger problem with the current medical field where few questions are asked. It's attitudes like yours which result in medication being handed out to children like skittles.

reply to post by MysticPearl


Take form it what you will

but the benefits out weigh the risks

These drugs should only be taken as directed by a doctor, and my point is not so much the Merritt of the medication but rather the dangers that come with reading information like this online. I am all for patients having information but it has to be the right kind of information and that cannot be found on ATS where there is a strong conspiracy agenda and anti-medication agenda held by many members

OtherSideOfTheCoin
reply to post by MysticPearl

 

Take form it what you will

but the benefits out weigh the risks

These drugs should only be taken as directed by a doctor, and my point is not so much the Merritt of the medication but rather the dangers that come with reading information like this online. I am all for patients having information but it has to be the right kind of information and that cannot be found on ATS where there is a strong conspiracy agenda and anti-medication agenda held by many members

edit on 2-10-2013 by OtherSideOfTheCoin because: (no reason given)

I've always wondered about the amount of information made public as far a cause and effect.

You have SSRIs and you have shootings, but, as Paul Harvey would ask, "What is the REST of the story?"

I've taken a tricyclic for 35 year and consider it a blessing. When our doctor saw that Cymbalta was approved for chronic pain, we gave it a try. I'll be honest, if I was court-ordered to take it I'd get p*ssed off and desperate, myself. It may do wonderful things for some people but it only took about ten days and I became aware of an unpleasant chemical smell working its way out of my skin. My wife and doctor said they couldn't smell it. I sure could and, as I said, it was just trying out an option so I could quit (gradually and with supervision). I give my family doctor credit for thinking of me and sometimes you just need to see what works for you.

I agree with you that the subject should be approached with caution. Too many refuse to consider even cognitive therapy because they think it means there's "something wrong with them". The thousands of people who see their quality of life improved through the correct prescription aren't the ones that make the news.

I'd just like to throw my two (or three) cents in.

From the little bit of research I've done on SSRI's, I do not think that they, nor their effects, are understood well enough to warrant the mass prescribing that, at least at one time, seemed to be taking place. Originally, they were supposed to be combined with other therapy, and not just handed out as a sole treatment.

Many years ago, they changed my friends SSRI (to Luvox...more on this in a moment) and he had about a three month supply of Zoloft left. I thought that I had been dealing with minor depression, for a while, so (and I know this is a big no-no) I started to take it, unsupervised. After three weeks, I weened myself off of it, noting that it was of no help, at all. In fact, it made me feel as if the 'external' world was even more 'external', and that my actions had little consequence in it. It was a very scary feeling (at least looking back on it), almost sociopathic, of which I've never been prior, nor since. It felt like 'you' did not matter, as only 'I' was 'real'. It is hard to explain, but needless to say, I quit and decided to deal with my depression in other ways (exercise, meditation, and journal keeping, to find the patterns).

My friend, on the other hand, was seeing a therapist. They were changing/adjusting/tweaking his prescriptions weekly, it seemed, and it was making my friend into a nutcase. They finally found a right mix, but prior to that, when they switched him to Luvox, he had the good sense to call me, telling me to not come visit him because he was sitting in his apartment, alone, with a gun, and thought that 'they' were out to get him, and he was going to kill them if they tried. He didn't want to accidentally confuse me for one of them, so he told me to stay away until after his next therapy visit, where they could readjust/change his meds. So is the strangeness of these drugs; he was cognitive enough to know that he was delusional, but it did nothing to stop it. Needless to say, I stayed away, he got better, and nothing bad happened, thank God. But, I can't help but think this is not always the case. I think that there should be much more care and study when playing with such a delicate mechanism as our brains. If we don't completely understand the function of brain chemistry, and how it works, it seems foolhardy to experiment on such a wide scale.

At the very least, stop prescribing them to children, whose brains and bodies are still developing. This seems like a no brainer...and that is even before all the possible evidence that, in some cases, it may have horrific consequence on many. I wonder how many may never actually kill, but still have many internal issues? And, when and if, they bring those issues to a doctors attention, are just switched to something else, until they stop trying to ask for help?

When they realized someone was tampering with Tylenol, they pulled it from the shelves. When we thought we were being attacked by terrorists during 9/11, they drafted the Patriot Act, taking away many of your freedoms. They impose tighter gun control, and such, in answer to the many school/public/mass shootings. Does it not seem a bit strange, that no matter how many people it may be helping, if there is even a remote chance that in a few instances, some folks go off their rocker and cause huge amounts of damage and pain that could have been prevented from taking a more responsible and ethical approach, that just maybe we should revise our method of distributing these chemicals for wide consumption. I know that the big Pharma has got to turn a buck, but at what cost? It should definitely be investigated further, IMHO.

reply to post by CornShucker


Isn't that true of all drugs, even the recreational ones (of which are illegal, in most places, and shall remain nameless, so as not to violate the ATS ToS)? Oftentimes, a small minority that should not be doing such things, create the general overall, accepted, negative perception, while many others do the same thing with no ill, and sometimes even beneficial effect, but are subjected to regulations stemming from that poo-poo minority? It may be a bit off topic, but I'm just sayin'...

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin


Great, you can prescribe drugs as a doctor, and you know what you are doing, but you are NOT there when the patient decides to skip a few weeks of meds, and then decides to catch up in a few days. Not to mention are you 100% sure that the same patient you prescribe to, isn't double dipping the sauce legally and/or illegally?

Maybe they are getting "help" from a friend of a friend, who has some leftover pills of some sort, or maybe a homeopathic/prescription/illegal combination cocktail, or even from a dark street corner salesman.

Listen, the drugs may be all well and good, but let's be honest, with a zillion people, including children, passing this stuff around, there is bound to be an encounter with the "flyoffthehandleandshootpeople" undocumented side effect.

Let's be real. I am almost totally convinced that all this madness is coming from modern medicine gone bad.

eatbliss
reply to post by CornShucker

 

Isn't that true of all drugs, even the recreational ones (of which are illegal, in most places, and shall remain nameless, so as not to violate the ATS ToS)? Oftentimes, a small minority that should not be doing such things, create the general overall, accepted, negative perception, while many others do the same thing with no ill, and sometimes even beneficial effect, but are subjected to regulations stemming from that poo-poo minority? It may be a bit off topic, but I'm just sayin'...

I think you are absolutely on topic...

Maybe someone can post the overall numbers of patients so we can compare them to the amount of mass shootings done by someone on SSRIs. Tragedies, by nature, grab headlines. Productive members of society that get up every day and go earn a paycheck while making the conscious effort to be proactive in their mental health care don't make the news.

Please don't misunderstand... I'm not downplaying the possible connection between meds and senseless murder. My concern is that we never seem to get the whole picture until years later. I'm old enough to remember when companies were put out of business because of a rush to judgement about the artificial sweetener cyclamate. It's back on the market now (often mixed with saccharin), but that doesn't help all the people who saw their company go under or those who saw their favorite soft drink pulled from the shelf.

reply to post by SadistNocturne
Why have you not tried this?

george-eby-research.com...

beckybecky
reply to post by SadistNocturne

 

Why have you not tried this?

george-eby-research.com...

Well, first of all, I am not a thumper and tend to get more than a little turned off at anything that is sugar coated with Biblical verse so as to sell it's authenticity as "legitimate".

Second of all, I am doing pretty damned well on my current medications. I wish for a more permanent fix, but, there is none at this time. Why screw with something that isn't broken.

And third, I am on the "normal" doseage. I do not have the problems associated with the rather HIGH doseages that these folks have been on.

So, no, I have not tried your fruit and nut fix, nor do I intend to.

Thanks, but no thanks.

reply to post by darkbake


The SSRI's open up your brain to influence and manipulation by negative astral entities. Many of the 'suicidal' or 'homicidal' thoughts people have, are not their own, but are being implanted into their mind.

This is partially the experiments that took place during MK Ultra.

big pharma meds are evl and are not to be trusted all hail the astronauts

reply to post by darkbake


Ah, I recently got prescribed Sertraline (SSRI). Only been on it about a week.

One day I noticed a lump on my breast (male). After a while I started getting chest pains, back pains and neck pains. I thought it was Pleurisy. I had a CT-Scan and Xray's done. Nothing abnormal was found. I've had 3 different opinions and they all say I'm suffering from anxiety attacks something about a chemical imbalance in my brain. So they put me on a SSRI.

I was scared to take it at first because I've heard they call them "suicide pills". I took them anyways and they did make the pain go away. The other night laying in bed I was having muscle spasms and twitching. I also felt really weird like I was on some hardcore drugs. Right when I would almost fall asleep I would suddenly awake with horrible twitches. Makes me want to stop taking them now. Could be putting too much seratonin in my brain.

reply to post by Evanzsayz


For one thing, I think there could be a more specific link between S.S.R.I. side effects and those with autism. However, when I first started taking my S.S.R.I. medications, I noticed two things that were quite major:

*The speed at which time passed increased dramatically, what used to be an hour would now be an entire day.

*I started to make some decisions, and have continued to make decisions, that I would have never made before - my judgement was affected, and it has taken me years to rein it in.

When I go off S.S.R.I.'s I notice two immediate effects:

*Time starts going so slowly, that a day will seem like years, and I can get as much done.

*My judgement entirely changes, once again, although to a more mathematical and much less creative (if creative at all) state, this means that I can only get things done that are right in front of my face, none of my own initiative.

I suspect that the reason I had judgement problems when first going on S.S.R.I.'s was because it gave me more initiative and mobility of thought than I was used to.

Have you noticed any of this? Also, watch out for obsessive thinking, man, when I was a psychology major up until 3 years ago I used to self diagnose myself all the time... I'm just getting over that, you know, as I start to forget what I learned.

-db

I'll just chip in from the perspective of someone who pretty much lives with medications and has for most of my life.

These medications are designed to manipulate your brain chemistry and thus regulate your moods. These are things that are still very poorly understood by medical science. And like any medication that you take for any condition in your body anywhere, every person is an individual with individual responses to these substances. Not everyone will respond alike. And sadly, not everyone will respond positively. The danger here is that when you are treating someone's stomach, the bad reaction might only make them violently ill. When you are trying to treat their moods, a bad reaction might make them dangerous to themselves and others.

I take daily medication for migraine prevention. When I started seeing my neurologist with chronic migraine, he told me it would be a long process because migraine is a highly individual disease and there were hundreds of different medications that might be tried to help prevent them. However, he also warned that because we were talking about brain chemistry, trying any single medication was going to be a process of months because many would take weeks to wean onto, weeks to months or more before we had any real idea what, if anything, they might do to help me, and weeks or sometimes more to get them out of my system before I could safely start a new one. He also had my husband there to warn us both that we should both be aware of ALL changes when we were going through this process, including mood changes.

I have had a bad mood reaction to an anti-depressant (not SSRI), and because of that there is a note in my files not to ever put me on a certain class of medications. I remember it was like suddenly going into a frothing red rage for absolutely no reason at all. In fact, I was a part-time clerk at a store and nearly screamed at a customer for just walking through the door. I remember (and I'm ashamed to admit this) wanting to hurt my husband just for being alive and being there, just because he existed. I'm fortunate that I was lucid enough to realize that this was completely out of character for me and to do something/say something about it before I lost control and acted. Needless to say, that is a medication I am no longer on and the class of meds that docs have been warned against giving me.

However, I will also say that without the ability to continue cycling through medications that do alter brain chemistry, I would not have my life back. About six years ago, we finally found the medication that has been successfully working for me, and without it, I was suffering a pain-filled existence where I was unable to do much more than attempt to sleep my life away.

But I think these things need to be treated with caution, and I think there are too many people who do not fully understand what they're messing with and expect them to be like magic pills without realizing what may happen. That's when the tragedies occur, because people are poorly informed and do stupid things. It's like playing with fire.

reply to post by darkbake


You'd be absolutely shocked if you saw a mental institution from the inside. They create "cocktails" consisting of several medications, sometimes handfuls of many differing pills to blatantly over-medicate people who have been diagnosed with mental illness. Even if the current dosage at a low amount and with only a single pill is working fine, they still increase the dosage and add more just for the hell of it, and I have witnessed perfectly functional people being brought into institutions like Provo Canyon Behavioral Hospital (a newer State-Run facility supposedly for the acute, the likes of which I have never seen) who claim they were just out on the streets and were arrested for absolutely nothing, suddenly break down after being forced to take medications, regardless as to whether they originally behaved as if they needed to.

While many people I have encountered did legitimately need to be there (or was it medication induced?), a lot of people there were spiritually-minded with alternative theories from the mainstream, Truth-seekers who would not accept status quo.

Furthermore, these people's lives get torn a part when they are hospitalized and cannot make payments like rent and the like and landlords evict their belongings or repossessions occur while they are detained. Once released, they have no life to get back to and no one, not even those who put them in that predicament gives a rat's ass and leaves them often homeless and unable to get medication, which often results in ending up back in the facility again.

For example, they are put on hugely expensive medications like Latuda and have only SSI/SSDI incomes which the maximum per month is $1000 a household and if they do not have insurance, this medication costs $1000 a bottle alone. Zyprexa, even the generic without insurance costs $200 a bottle.

Most people who suffer from mental illness are pushed to the extreme until they break, and we do not even know if the illness is what you call "natural." If the occult is real, if there is a tie where spirituality and chemistry meet, like alchemy suggests, if there is a biochemical network where other people's minds can be accessed and tortured by those who know how to navigate the network, then by no means is the illness "natural." (Please note that I do not believe it's "supernatural," because there is nothing outside or above nature in my opinion and all things we attest are "supernatural" are actually natural, even if they have man or even what we call spirits and gods at its source.)

Hypocrites occupy the hospitals too. I made the claim: "I think I see and hear energy," and that was put in my case against me, but when on the inside, they were teaching Tai Chi classes which spoke of energy manipulation and mastery. I worded my experiences carefully by saying "I try to talk with Jesus and Satan often comes to try and stop me, and if you are religious and believe in these characters, you are a hypocrite for keeping me here."

When I had previously told them the straight-up truth of my experiences, I was treated poorly. Once I started trying to word it where it fit with their own paradigms I was speedily released.

reply to post by darkbake


I've said this a gazillion times, if SSRI's caused people to go on mass-killing sprees, we'd all be dead.

Frankly, millions of Americans are on these drugs every day, and have been for decades. I'm sorry, but the drugs themselves don't cause psychotic breaks.

I will admit, however, that coming OFF these drugs without proper medical supervision can lead to nasty side effects.

We jump so readily to an "easy answer" -- SSRI's are to blame? What about TV? What about video games? We love to pin the blame on anything but the person. Nope, It has to be something, because people just don't "snap" or go "crazy" on their own.

Well, I hate to break it to ya, but people have mental break downs without SSRI's, TV or video games. Serial killers and murderers existed long before SSRI's and modern technology.

SSRI's are an easy scapegoat just like video games and television.

"Something has to make these people act this way, there has to be something that is the cause!"

How about some people are just crazy, and we'll always have crazy people. The sheer and utter lack of mental health support in this country is disgusting and reprehensible. We point our fingers at every possible excuse, because the truth is so much uglier.

reply to post by AsherahoftheSea


Thank you so much, Ashera, for your thorough description. I found it extremely helpful and it sounds very accurate I love it.