Jesus names as evil those who think his Father would break heavenly law and have him sacrificed.

Jesus names as evil those who think his Father would break heavenly law and have him sacrificed.

The law in heaven is that the oldest dies first if there is to be a death. That is the only proper law for Gods, --- if they could die that is.

As above so below.

If we interpret that law and apply it to a human family, then the first to die would be fathers, followed by wives and lastly, children. Fathers are to die before sons. That is God’s law.

As above so below then would indicate that the law of the sea should also be the law of the land. It says that women and children are saved first then the men.

Men would need to recognize their duty to sanctify the family by placing women and children above themselves. IOW, equality does not exist in heaven nor should it exist in our human law.

Knowing this, God would never have his son sacrifice for a ransom that God himself would have had to set. One does not put a bounty on a son’s head.

I am not an atheist but Satan and Christians want atheists to embrace barbaric human sacrifice and the notion that we should profit from punishing the innocent instead of the guilty. Christian preach for Satan. Shame on Christians for their immoral dogma and tradition of embracing blood sacrifice.

In reality, if God did demand such a barbaric sacrifice, he would be sinning. He would know that barbaric human sacrifice is immoral.

You do as well. Right?

Those with good morals will know that no noble and gracious God would demand the sacrifice of a so called son just to prove it's benevolence nor would God break heavenly law.

If you are a believer in the vile notion of the human sacrifice of Jesus Christ, when you die, Satan will ask you; how was your ticket to heaven purchased?
With innocent blood?

If you say yes and point to you scapegoat Jesus, you become Satan’s.

Have you embraced human sacrifice and do you plan to try to ride your scapegoat Jesus into heaven, --- on your way to hell?

Regards
DL

Greatest I am
The law in heaven is that the oldest dies first if there is to be a death. That is the only proper law for Gods, --- if they could die that is.

What verse are you looking at here?

reply to post by Greatest I am


Seems the only god you know is yourself.

reply to post by Greatest I am


The sin nature is passed down through the male. Thats why Jesus was born of a virgin. We all have the sin nature. That means that no matter how hard we try to be good, the sin nature invalidates our good work. Jesus cancelled out the effect of the sin nature on the cross, so that through faith in Him, our work can glorify God when executed through the Holy Spirit.

God's law is not "as above, so below", that is theosophy. God's Law is straight accounting. At the last Judgment, you are either credited with the Righteousness of Christ, or stand on the empty void that is human work.

Sin is a blackhole that corrupts, the purity of Christ cancels out the sin that enslaves us.

"As above, so below" is not a biblical principle.

Still waiting for you to supply your verses.

What I find totally bizarre, is that the OP appears to have made a full time career out of slandering God.

All of his threads appear to be plastered all over the interwebs on every forum out there...

The credibility seems to be completely non existent.

The smiling snake avatar in many of them gives a major clue as to WHO his god really is...

Can you spell S U S P I C I O U S?

Examples:

This first search below alone turns up a massive 21,200 results:

How sad that Christians reject the good news that Jesus gave

The predominantly Christian world dubbed him Captain Coward

Was Judas Jesus’ hero and most trusted disciple?


In one thread, the OP was asked:

Hey dude, why is ur avatar a snake?

His reply skillfully avoided actually giving an ANSWER to the question.

Looks pretty dang obvious to me...

I've always thought that the "ransom" argument was absurd, for reasons that you've stated.

God himself would have created the need for this ransom and then sacrificed his own son, whom he must have dearly loved just as he loves all of his creations.

Its a strange circular argument and suggests that God creates suffering so that he can create convoluted solutions to suffering which in turn cause more suffering and confusion and allow unprecedented numbers of souls to be lost in the process.

Glass
I've always thought that the "ransom" argument was absurd, for reasons that you've stated.

God himself would have created the need for this ransom and then sacrificed his own son, whom he must have dearly loved just as he loves all of his creations.

Its a strange circular argument and suggests that God creates suffering so that he can create convoluted solutions to suffering which in turn cause more suffering and confusion and allow unprecedented numbers of souls to be lost in the process.

I've always thought human statements about what God himself would have done were absurd.

Glass
I've always thought that the "ransom" argument was absurd, for reasons that you've stated.

God himself would have created the need for this ransom and then sacrificed his own son, whom he must have dearly loved just as he loves all of his creations.

Its a strange circular argument and suggests that God creates suffering so that he can create convoluted solutions to suffering which in turn cause more suffering and confusion and allow unprecedented numbers of souls to be lost in the process.

God did not create the need for this. Mankind did when they sinned. I am having difficulty figuring out what convoluted thinking would lead yuo to say what you said.

reply to post by Glass


God never made suffering His policy. Adam chose sin over fellowship. His suffering was self inflicted. The same goes for us. Each sin we commit is an expression of our own free will at our own expense. Much of our suffering is self inflicted. Even when we target others with malevolence, what goes around comes around.

Christ suffered the penalty of Adam's original poor choice(s) (and the rest of humanities poor choices) by His own free will. Jesus could have declined to go to the cross, and He was offered a way out multiple times. The Father never made Him do it, He did it out of love for His own creation.

reply to post by Greatest I am


I'm totally confused.... human sacrifice? When did Christians start sacrificing the oldest family member? I think you need to do more research.

or is this a troll thread. I'm just confused

reply to post by Greatest I am


Your whole argument is a strawman. Well, it's more like a scarecrow, which is a strawman, except more scarey. I had so much trouble trying to decipher your argument, it's like you laid straw everywhere.

What law are you talking about? That's a strawman position because no such law exists in Christendom, or even in humanity. The law of the sea? That's a recent idea when women and children began riding in ships, before that it was only men. But that is not a law, it's a moral preclusion. If you call it a law, then it's a law "every man for himself" and "the captain goes down with the ship". Well, that would be contradictory laws. You can't have every man for himself but the captain goes down with the ship. The captain is a man.

In a perfect world then fathers should die before their children, but this isn't a perfect world. As above so below? You mean "as it is heaven, let it be done on earth"? But we also believe that whatever we bind on earth is bound in heaven, and what is loosed in heaven is loosed on earth.

God bound Satan in heaven, but Satan was loosed on earth. The principle here is what God says at the beginning to Cain...sin lies at your door desiring to have power over you and will if you let it. But Cain didn't bind sin, instead sin ruled over him. But there is only one way to bind Satan on earth, that was the law of God from heaven, in the name of Jesus that we say, binds Satan and sin. The name of Jesus is so powerful, that you are bound by your emotions to not only keep proclaiming, but cannot escape from.

Whatever you lend your members to, has rule over you. That's the real law.

OP posted drivel then left the post. Should really be banned.

Op is a propagandist. Nothing more.

Murgatroid
What I find totally bizarre, is that the OP appears to have made a full time career out of slandering God.

All of his threads appear to be plastered all over the interwebs on every forum out there...

I don't know that every "Greatest I Am" out on teh Interwebs is DL, but he's definitely one of the biggest trolls on ATS. Fortunately, good sense prevails, and his worthless threads generally die quick deaths with few, if any, flags -- I think his "threads to flags" ratio is one of the lowest on the site.

OccamsRazor04

Greatest I am
The law in heaven is that the oldest dies first if there is to be a death. That is the only proper law for Gods, --- if they could die that is.

What verse are you looking at here?

How about this one?

Joshua 24:2
And Joshua said unto all the people, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Your fathers dwelt on the other side of the flood in old time, even Terah, the father of Abraham, and the father of Nachor: and they served other gods.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04


reply to post by BELIEVERpriest


I'm going to reply to both of you in this post since you both have the same position.

God did not create the need for this. Mankind did when they sinned. I am having difficulty figuring out what convoluted thinking would lead yuo to say what you said.

As written in Genesis 2, God created Adam from the material of the earth (referred to as clay) and breathed his spirit into him, giving him life and sentience. God places him in the garden and creates Eve afterwards based on Adam's genetic material (gathered from his rib).

Presumably, both Adam and Eve have the same holy spirit in them as God. Both of them are created in God's own image, which I take to mean that they have the same sort of mind/consciousness. The difference between them and God is that their minds are blank slates, limited in their perspective, while God is already all-knowing. Thus they have a sort of naive innocence, not knowing good and evil.

God then warns them not to eat the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, tells them that if they do they will surely die. Then he leaves them, and the serpent comes along and tells Eve that she will not die if she eats the fruit but would become "like God". This is where I have an issue.

First, God must have created both the serpent and the tree and placed them in the garden with Adam and Eve. Since God is all-knowing and wise, he must have known that the temptation would occur.

Second, God created Adam and Eve and withheld the Knowledge of Good and Evil from them, thus they could not have known that the serpent was trying to deceive them. "Lie vs Truth", "Good vs. Evil", they don't know about these things in their naive innocence. Thus the temptation was inevitable.

The concept of sin is tied to Knowledge of Good and Evil, knowledge which, at the time, only God would have possessed. Rather than making an attempt to safeguard his creations from this knowledge, it seems that he deliberately allowed it to be revealed to them.

God never made suffering His policy. Adam chose sin over fellowship. His suffering was self inflicted. The same goes for us. Each sin we commit is an expression of our own free will at our own expense. Much of our suffering is self inflicted. Even when we target others with malevolence, what goes around comes around.

If you follow my logic, then Adam's choice could not have been avoided given his lack of knowledge. When Adam ate, he ate without question, naively trusting Eve when she brought him the fruit, just as Eve naively trusted the serpent. It's clear to me that without preexisting Knowledge of Good and Evil, they could not have suspected the serpent of evil motives nor doubted his claims.

Now the rest of us have sin thrust upon us by Adam and Eve's mistakes. We can hardly choose not to sin since many sins are built into our biology (anger and lust for example)

The supposed solution to sin is provided in the form of the sacrifice of God's son, Jesus, or so the church would have you believe. In fact, the solution to sin that Jesus proposed was to have faith in him so as to follow his teachings.

The church has twisted the words to have you believe that faith in his sacrifice and resurrection is the key to liberation from sin, shown to be false as many of the most faithful in this regard continue to sin with impunity.

Christ suffered the penalty of Adam's original poor choice(s) (and the rest of humanities poor choices) by His own free will. Jesus could have declined to go to the cross, and He was offered a way out multiple times. The Father never made Him do it, He did it out of love for His own creation.

We all still suffer the penalty of that "choice". There is no ultimate solution to sin as long as we live in this universe with free will. All we can do, as Jesus taught, is try to sin as little as possible and have remorse for it when we do. I've seen too many believers who take Jesus' teachings as a free pass to do what they will even if it does harm, justifying their evils as "God's will". It makes me think that evil is part of God's will, since he allowed it to fester in the first place.

OccamsRazor04

Greatest I am
The law in heaven is that the oldest dies first if there is to be a death. That is the only proper law for Gods, --- if they could die that is.

What verse are you looking at here?

I base my opinion on the following.

1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

Deuteronomy 24:16 KJV
16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

The first indicates a callous prick who decided to have his son murdered even before creating the potential for sin. That is criminally insane from MPOV.

The middle of that second ties the nose.

Are you suggesting with your doubt that heaven's law would be that women and children should be the first to die?

Does you God have less of a sense of duty and honour than man?

Regards
DL

TruthLover557
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

Seems the only god you know is yourself.

Yes. Exactly how Jesus says it is to work.

Read the Gospel of Thomas.

Regards
DL

BELIEVERpriest
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

The sin nature is passed down through the male. Thats why Jesus was born of a virgin. We all have the sin nature. That means that no matter how hard we try to be good, the sin nature invalidates our good work. Jesus cancelled out the effect of the sin nature on the cross, so that through faith in Him, our work can glorify God when executed through the Holy Spirit.

God's law is not "as above, so below", that is theosophy. God's Law is straight accounting. At the last Judgment, you are either credited with the Righteousness of Christ, or stand on the empty void that is human work.

Sin is a blackhole that corrupts, the purity of Christ cancels out the sin that enslaves us.

"As above, so below" is not a biblical principle.

Neither is that the judge of the universe is so unjust that he will set and accept bribes.

Do you think a holy God like judge who can be bribed by indulgences and an immoral barbaric human sacrifice is worthy of that title?

What would you think of a human judge who set bribe prices for his justice?

You would condemn him so why do you praise your God for doing the same crime?

Regards
DL