reply to post by OccamsRazor04
reply to post by BELIEVERpriest
I'm going to reply to both of you in this post since you both have the same position.
God did not create the need for this. Mankind did when they sinned. I am having difficulty figuring out what convoluted thinking would lead yuo to
say what you said.
As written in Genesis 2, God created Adam from the material of the earth (referred to as clay) and breathed his spirit into him, giving him life and
sentience. God places him in the garden and creates Eve afterwards based on Adam's genetic material (gathered from his rib).
Presumably, both Adam and Eve have the same holy spirit in them as God. Both of them are created in God's own image, which I take to mean that they
have the same sort of mind/consciousness. The difference between them and God is that their minds are blank slates, limited in their perspective,
while God is already all-knowing. Thus they have a sort of naive innocence, not knowing good and evil.
God then warns them not to eat the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, tells them that if they do they will surely die. Then he leaves
them, and the serpent comes along and tells Eve that she will not die if she eats the fruit but would become "like God". This is where I have an
First, God must have created both the serpent and the tree and placed them in the garden with Adam and Eve. Since God is all-knowing and wise, he must
have known that the temptation would occur.
Second, God created Adam and Eve and withheld the Knowledge of Good and Evil from them, thus they could not have known that the serpent was trying to
deceive them. "Lie vs Truth", "Good vs. Evil", they don't know about these things in their naive innocence. Thus the temptation was
The concept of sin is tied to Knowledge of Good and Evil, knowledge which, at the time, only God would have possessed. Rather than making an attempt
to safeguard his creations from this knowledge, it seems that he deliberately allowed it to be revealed to them.
God never made suffering His policy. Adam chose sin over fellowship. His suffering was self inflicted. The same goes for us. Each sin we commit is an
expression of our own free will at our own expense. Much of our suffering is self inflicted. Even when we target others with malevolence, what goes
around comes around.
If you follow my logic, then Adam's choice could not have been avoided given his lack of knowledge. When Adam ate, he ate without question, naively
trusting Eve when she brought him the fruit, just as Eve naively trusted the serpent. It's clear to me that without preexisting Knowledge of Good and
Evil, they could not have suspected the serpent of evil motives nor doubted his claims.
Now the rest of us have sin thrust upon us by Adam and Eve's mistakes. We can hardly choose not to sin since many sins are built into our biology
(anger and lust for example)
The supposed solution to sin is provided in the form of the sacrifice of God's son, Jesus, or so the church would have you believe. In fact, the
solution to sin that Jesus proposed was to have faith in him so as to follow his teachings.
The church has twisted the words to have you believe that faith in his sacrifice and resurrection is the key to liberation from sin, shown to be false
as many of the most faithful in this regard continue to sin with impunity.
Christ suffered the penalty of Adam's original poor choice(s) (and the rest of humanities poor choices) by His own free will. Jesus could have
declined to go to the cross, and He was offered a way out multiple times. The Father never made Him do it, He did it out of love for His own creation.
We all still suffer the penalty of that "choice". There is no ultimate solution to sin as long as we live in this universe with free will. All we
can do, as Jesus taught, is try to sin as little as possible and have remorse for it when we do. I've seen too many believers who take Jesus'
teachings as a free pass to do what they will even if it does harm, justifying their evils as "God's will". It makes me think that evil is part of
God's will, since he allowed it to fester in the first place.