Church Members Mistreat Homeless Man in Church Unaware It Is Their Pastor in Disguise

Bone75
What bothers me most about this thread is the lack of concern over the authenticity of this story. There was a time not too long ago, when credible sources and factual information were demanded around here, but now it seems as long as the fabrications allow atheists the opportunity to to take shots at Christians, it doesn't matter if the story is true or not.

By the way GO SAINTS!!!

edit on 22-9-2013 by Bone75 because: (no reason given)

It bothers me as well, how ya gonna fix it?

I think we should all go give aid to a food pantry today or tomorrow morning then none of us will be hypocrites.

I am gonna

I would LIKE to believe this story to be true, but it probably is not; stormdancer relates a real incident, which also speaks to helping a neighbor in need. If one is in a Christian church, one probably has heard the story of the Good Samaritan, which should prompt one to be like the Samaritan as to understanding who is a neighbor.

Story telling is a way to get across an idea, to imbed an important concept deeper into the human psyche. These days, unlike recent past, we are bombarded with stories, many from emails or flying around the internet. The usual communal way in the past included stories from politicians and editorials or even news.

(I can remember the 2000 presidential campaign, when Al Gore told a story about the human versus dog cost of the same medicine. His opposition declared him to not be a good candidate for POTUS if he embellished, then went on to win the election and spin tales to get the country to war.)

The bottom line, it is good to know if a story is true or false, especially if it is one in regards to matters of legality or science, but just because a story is false does not mean it has no value. It is the value of the idea expressed that we need to take a close look at, deciding if we want to act on that value or not.

I can remember good, honest Christian friends in the !980-90s telling/spreading "true" stories of Satanic rituals being conducted at night at the local river. And that AIDS came from African men having sex with green monkeys. These good people swore these stories were true. They were not. These stories expressed their religious belief, in Satan and the depravity of mankind. Those values were debatable, the stories were not.

For decades now, people have wanted the security of a black and white world, and story telling has fallen under the abuse of a need to be either factually correct and acceptable or embellishment and unacceptable. The great thing about humans is that we can tell colorful stories and be powerfully understood, even in a world that by itself is gray.

reply to post by HanzHenry

I think the book is Hulla Bullooo.. ANd therefore If I JUDGE, fine!, not bound by christianity

That's an interesting point

reply to post by desert



It isn't hard for me to believe that somewhere something similar to this may have happened, but I do know for a fact Christians are some of the most giving and charitable people on the planet.
But also the poor in the churches give more.

www.christianpost.com...

Here is a good lesson for all of us

The Widow’s Offering

As Jesus looked up, he saw the rich putting their gifts into the temple treasury. He also saw a poor widow put in two very small copper coins. “Truly I tell you,” he said, “this poor widow has put in more than all the others. All these people gave their gifts out of their wealth; but she out of her poverty put in all she had to live on.”

There are a lot of Christians who need a wake-up call. Our mission as believers is to help those in need, to share the gospel in a loving way with our fellow man in action, word and deeds. The only problem I have with this story is if it is a lie, and it's being spread as a truth and not just a story, then it's sole purpose is to cast stones at Christians. All I can say is look in the mirror. Who are you judging today? Who have you blessed with a random act of kindness not out of a need to feel good about yourself, but just to love them?

Imagine how things could change if we each really tried to do this in our community and shared that it was because of the love that has been shown to us.

Fake or not, there's a message behind it. The writer was clearly aware of the hypocrisy so prevalent in Churchianity and wanted to make a point. It's a breath of fresh air, you've got to admit.

stormdancer777
It isn't hard for me to believe that somewhere something similar to this may have happened, but I do know for a fact Christians are some of the most giving and charitable people on the planet.

Oh, don't get me started. Some are also among the meanest and most vindictive people imaginable. You get the sense that the forces of darkness are behind those people's souls, trying to lower Christianity's reputation and make it appear as though it's a religion of hate. Whatever is going on, the truly loving Christians have become obscured to everyone except the lucky folks in personal contact with them.

This has been moved to the Faith forum. Although the story has been shown to be fake, it isn't an intentional hoax and the staff has decided that the story holds merit on it's own basis. As such it has been moved to this forum.

Please refrain from making posts about it being a hoax or attacking the OP for the basis of the story.

Thank you.

reply to post by EllaMarina


Charity isn't just for Christians , and I beg to differ, if it is a lie then it was written just to trash Christians.

I am sure we can find something they do wrong that is true.

That happens a lot, people expect more from Christians than they require of themselves, that is hypocrisy too.

reply to post by GAOTU789

Although the story has been shown to be fake,

Sorry, I posted my above post before I seen your post above me, so it is fake?

reply to post by stormdancer777


I somehow suspect that fact tends to be used by believers as a way of excusing themselves more often than not. Light of the world and all that.
I agree that being charitable should be a human thing, not just a religious one. Alas, though, who will teach them? I know Jesus is said to have come to die for the sins of mankind, but I think there something else.

reply to post by Kryties

Someone posted that on Facebook the other day and I got the distinct impression, after having read it, that it was a made-up story.

Then someone needs to do it. Someone needs to do with that pastor did. Just to make a point.

EllaMarina
reply to post by stormdancer777

 

I somehow suspect that fact tends to be used by believers as a way of excusing themselves more often than not. Light of the world and all that.
I agree that being charitable should be a human thing, not just a religious one. Alas, though, who will teach them? I know Jesus is said to have come to die for the sins of mankind, but I think there something else.

what do you mean by something else?
thanks

GAOTU789
This has been moved to the Faith forum. Although the story has been shown to be fake, it isn't an intentional hoax and the staff has decided that the story holds merit on it's own basis. As such it has been moved to this forum.

Please refrain from making posts about it being a hoax or attacking the OP for the basis of the story.

What??? This makes absolutely no sense at all. Please explain how this is "denying ignorance."

I'm NOT attacking the OP. He probably found the story, thought it was cool, and put it up. That's just peachy and fine with me. Kudos to him. Stars and flags, too!

But the story here is NOT the story itself; it is the reaction of ATS to it. Here we have four pages of outrage against "hypocrites," and particularly "Christian hypocrites" based on a story that "has been shown to be fake." (YOUR words, not mine, so don't try to pin it on me for violating something you said yourself.) So here we have all this vitriol, all this hatred of religion, and hatred of Christians in particular, all this emotion and self-righteous indignation based on a story "that has been shown to be fake."

What does that say about us, here? What does that say about ATS? What does that say about the clarity of thought and critical thinking skills ATSers often paint themselves with? We're so great! we DENY IGNORANCE and all those other sheeple are fools! WE, however, we at ATS, we've GOT IT DOWN! Yesiree. We can spot a disinformation agent a mile away! We can tell chemtrails from contrails, by God, and we know the Illuminati are right around the corner about to snatch our babies!

So, yeah. I'm ashamed. I'm not ashamed of the Christians who have been falsely accused here. While you are here bashing them for something that never happened they put a homeless shelter up in their parking lot because no one else wanted one. I'm ashamed of ATS.

You're not denying ignorance here; you're promoting it.

reply to post by schuyler


It is bother me as well and I always try to follow the rules, and not make waves, but I think this is unfair.

they put a homeless shelter up in their parking lot because no one else wanted one.

I missed that part.

schuyler
What does that say about us, here? What does that say about ATS? What does that say about the clarity of thought and critical thinking skills ATSers often paint themselves with?

It says that this is a good indication of how most people feel treated by "Christians in general" when they aren't part of the club.

That doesn't justify jumping on a fake story to start slamming another group... but the Christian faith *is* built upon a man who made points via parables not because the specific parable was specifically true... but because it was generally true and the people hearing it could supposedly go "yes... we understand the fundamental truth contained within the fiction and have seen/experienced it ourselves".

So people can either be outraged at the outrage... or go "Hmmm... what can I take away from this that is useful?"

reply to post by stormdancer777


Oh. I meant, him being an example for the way mankind should live. Since his followers are basically (or should be) his representatives on earth, I just assumed there was an extra level of responsibility.

reply to post by stormdancer777


Yes, lol, as that story, along with others, indicates, it is certainly easier to give of one's wealth and brag or make a show of it than for a person without the wealth to give. I think that is why we are admonished to not love money.

If anyone was into Christian, well pre-Christian, bashing it was Jesus. I sure would not have wanted to be on the wrong side of what he was teaching; in fact, if I was upset enough about it, I might want him arrested and crucified. Imagine being told that all your money, all your helping those of your kind, all your public praying, wouldn't get you into Heaven. Bummer.

Re the data from the source, Unfortunately, the numbers are there, but why they are that way is up for debate. IRS charity deductions is quite a big inclusive/exclusive category and probably doesn't give the total picture of American charitable giving. (Honest to God, I knew an atheist family who tithed to and attended a Christian church, and who would be the first to help out at soup kitchens, etc. My best friend, who grew up and is atheist, helps out her favorite community charity and takes those charitable deductions.)

What I did find interesting was this

The Chronicle’s study found that when wealthy people are heavily clustered in a neighborhood—meaning that when households making more than $200,000 a year account for more than 40 percent of the taxpayers—the affluent households give an average of only 2.8 percent of discretionary income to charity.

It would seem that the more we segregate ourselves into groups of our own kind, we might be opening ourselves up into hardening our hearts in a most unfortunate way.

Reading about and seeing pictures about The Other or The Poor does not seem to be as effective as interacting. I don't think Jesus's ministry would have been as effective if he had stayed in the Temple and observed. Instead, he purposely interacted with those less fortunate, those who society would turn their back on or not help, or despise. And that was what he expected his followers to do.

EllaMarina
reply to post by stormdancer777

 

Oh. I meant, him being an example for the way mankind should live. Since his followers are basically (or should be) his representatives on earth, I just assumed there was an extra level of responsibility.

I understand how you feel believe me I do, I take issue with the many shortcomings of the church.

You see the message is for everyone, anyone can accept the message to feed the hungry and clothe the naked.

Besides Christ was Jewish.

It is a real fricken mess, I can't sort it out.

stormdancer777

It bothers me as well, how ya gonna fix it?

I'm not. I'm just gonna hang my head in shame and watch the flags pile up while I search the internet for a better place to contribute.

reply to post by desert

he purposely interacted with those less fortunate,

Absolutely, I always remind people that he spent more time with so called sinners then saints, one doesn't have to be called Christian to accept the wisdom of Christ.

Too many people throw the baby out with the bath water, because so and so did this, or what his face didn't do that.

Just like we are always reminded all Muslims or Buddhist or Jews are not like the radicals.

Everyone of us falls short............way short

But there are never breaks for the Christians, they get the brunt of the hatred.