Mad about Guns: America's Deadly Weapons Obsession

When I go out picking blueberries with the grandchildren, it is nice to have a big pistol on me incase a bear comes around. It is easier than carrying a long gun. When I go out stream fishing and catch a fish, I don't want to have to throw it at a bear to keep him from chasing me. I'd rather stand my gun and tell the bear to mosey along or I'll kill him. I also deer hunt, to gain nutritious food to help reduce expenses. I am fascinated with guns because I use them for hunting and personal protection in the woods.

Most people are not obsessed with guns for killing other humans, most want them for personal protection.

Am I the only one that feels that this subject is pretty cut and dry?

If you are mentally unstable, you shouldn't be allowed to get a gun. If you can get a gun, keep it locked up, and take care of it properly so it doesn't go off when you are handling it (clean it periodically). If you let your kids, or adults without a gun license, get ahold of it, and crap happens, you go to jail. If you shoot people, you go to jail, or die. If you use it in defense, you go to trial, and if you rightly used it, you are ok. If not, you again...go to jail, or die.

Why is this so complicated?

reply to post by benrl

...we need a Mental Health system equipped to deal with these issues and it doesn't exist, AND nothing they are doing will create that.

The problem is, our mental health experts would have to start in Wash DC. It'll take years for them to work through the 3 government branches before they can ever get to the public.

Bassago

1104light

Bassago
So now what? The Germans are ragging on the US because of our guns? WTH, who do these people think they are. Yeah the Navy Yard shooting is bad. When crazy people do crazy stuff it usually is bad but people who aren't connected to the issues should just butt out.

What did the Germans get wrong about this?
Please remember German does not = Nazi. Germans are people like us so I am curious why they are so wrong.

Nazi's... ?? where did that come from. Here's what I mean:
Germany . keep . nose . out . none . of . your . business

This was an "editorial" not a news piece.

How do you feel about the very simple concept of people having a thought and expressing it?
As an American, I would think you might support that.
But you have fun playing world police, telling everyone else what to do but their opinions mean nothing?
Interesting.

reply to post by Catacomb

If you are mentally unstable, you shouldn't be allowed to get a gun.

Who decides what mental instability is? It's subjective at best. And an easy way to take guns away from law abiding citizens at worst. My take is simple, and has been posted many times before on ATS...

"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life"

Catacomb
Am I the only one that feels that this subject is pretty cut and dry?

If you are mentally unstable, you shouldn't be allowed to get a gun. If you can get a gun, keep it locked up, and take care of it properly so it doesn't go off when you are handling it (clean it periodically). If you let your kids, or adults without a gun license, get ahold of it, and crap happens, you go to jail. If you shoot people, you go to jail, or die. If you use it in defense, you go to trial, and if you rightly used it, you are ok. If not, you again...go to jail, or die.

Why is this so complicated?

Define unstable please. Someone who suffers depression? Maybe grief? OCD?

I have guns for protection. They are not locked up, in fact one is sitting right next to me here. Wouldn't be of much use if it was locked away somewhere. Before you ask, yes I've needed it in the past and was sure glad it wasn't locked away in some safe w/o ammo already loaded.

It's not complicated, the 2nd amendment says "shall NOT be infringed."

reply to post by grey580


I lived in Germany. More than a few Americans have been killed in Germany, so are we going to blame the beer? Yes, take their beer NOW!

1104light


How do you feel about the very simple concept of people having a thought and expressing it?
As an American, I would think you might support that.
But you have fun playing world police, telling everyone else what to do but their opinions mean nothing?
Interesting.

Opinion noted and Immediately disregarded, I can entertain a thought without excepting it.

The world, contrary to what they think, DO NOT WANT the US citizens unarmed, IF they get their wish Im willing to bet in 5 years the world would be facing WW3 with the US being the "bad guy" we are almost there.

Lets not push it.

you got The World Police from a US that feared the response of its citizen.

Imagine what you face with a US Government that feared no reprisal from with in.

reply to post by Catacomb


well one just being mentally ill does not disqualify you from gun ownership.you have to be ruled adjudicated mentally deficient or some specific term.(meaning you have to have tried to kill your self or been FORCIBLY institutionalized)

two. well congratulations you have just made it illegal for the mentally ill to get guns.....now how do you prove if they are mentally ill? force them to get treatment? hell i know people in this day and age that still don't believe it even exists.

and who gets to decide what qualify s as a mental illness?....not liking your government....you see where this is going

3.Stigma if you stigmatize the mental health community you will drive them underground as another member said already if they try to get tried of guns just for having a mental illness people wont go get treatment and it will make it worse,not to mention we would need to hire a lot more police as if they say ptsd is a qualification may vets that go on to be police could in theory suffer from it....

4. being mentally ill puts you in the protected classes group for federal protection against DISCRIMINATION and passing laws that effect protected classes negatively is pretty hard to do, ya cant say men can own guns and women cant,just like you cant say because you are gay or black no gun for you. so they expect to pass a law that says another protected class cant own things but the others can...... yeah aint gonna happen the second amendment is here to stay

if you wanana do anything to cut down on the risk increase funds to mental health agencies and the like.
and create a list(yes i know we gun owners dont like lists) of ALL prohibited persons by Social security number as prohibited persons are not a protected class this would be legal and probably not that hard to do....but HIPPA is also an obstacle as even if you do suspect some one of being mentally ill getting their records is almost impossible unless (and even in some cases despite) them having committed a crime

TLDR mentally ill can own guns (hell they are issuing permits to the legally blind) and just being mentaly ill is not an automatic no go for guns.more services and funds for mental health less laws would be a good thing

www.ncsl.org...

Under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d), it is unlawful for any person to sell or otherwise dispose of any firearm or ammunition to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person “has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to any mental institution.”

with a list of state laws that also come into play

blogs.wsj.com... related link

Hawaii and New York are outliers. In Hawaii, a person diagnosed with a mental disorder may not own a gun without clearance from a doctor. After the Newtown, Conn., school shooting, lawmakers in New York passed a law that requires physicians, psychologists, nurses and clinical social workers to warn health officials about potentially dangerous patients, who then may be forced to surrender their guns without a court hearing. Mental-health professionals balked at the New York law, fearing it would tread on confidentiality and put the therapist and patient in an adversarial relationship. Some legal scholars, including NYU’s Mr. Jacobs, question its constitutionality. And states that move in New York’s direction can expect to face much more push-back. “It raises significant privacy issues,” Adam Winkler, a law professor at the University of California, Los Angeles, told Law Blog. “It’s always risky to punish people seeking treatment for mental health and other disorders.”

in hawaii and ny you need a doctors note.

I work with a guy who was born, and grew up in a village in Nigeria. I love listening to him talk. He has horse sense like no one I have ever met.

Essentially, he breaks it down like this:

- we don't respect our elders enough to seek out their input.
- we worry to much about everyone else
- we worry too little about matters relating to our villages (towns/cities).
- the men in America are weak in too great a numbers (not all are weak, but there are too many weak ones among us), and we coddle them


He feels that the whole gun debate is silly. That all men should be allowed to protect themselves and their village (society). These are the values he relays to me, anyway.


I don't really ever argue with any of that. To be honest, judging by him, I wish more Nigerians would move to America.

bigfatfurrytexan

I don't really ever argue with any of that. To be honest, judging by him, I wish more Nigerians would move to America.

I was trying to help a Nigerian prince move to America but I never heard from him once he got my Bank info...

benrl
Opinion noted and Immediately disregarded, I can entertain a thought without excepting it.

No one asked you to except it or even ACCEPT it.

The world, contrary to what they think, DO NOT WANT the US citizens unarmed, IF they get their wish Im willing to bet in 5 years the world would be facing WW3 with the US being the "bad guy" we are almost there.

The world, contrary to what they think????
So they think something against what they think?
Hmmm, that is either a thinker or stupid as heck.

Lets not push it.

you got The World Police from a US that feared the response of its citizen.

Imagine what you face with a US Government that feared no reprisal from with in.

World government? Because a country aside from the US expresses an opinion?

reply to post by 1104light


Just curious, but are you pro choice?

When the Australians outlawed 'guns' the first full year after the law was passed, 'gun' crime went up 44%, must be a message in there somewhere.

The problem with the “It’s just another mad guy” rap is that in the US, it’s just happening too many times.
Something is wrong in this country and it has to do with violence, mental illness, AND GUNS!

The over concentration on kid and adult games, the wars we fight continually, the macho man syndrome, and overall sex and violence in the media also is a contributing factor.

The guns also play a major part whether you guys like to hear it or not.

Though guns are not the only issue.

The problem like any problem has to be solved on many levels

Willtell
The problem with the “It’s just another mad guy” rap is that in the US, it’s just happening too many times.
Something is wrong in this country and it has to do with violence, mental illness, AND GUNS!

The over concentration on kid and adult games, the wars we fight continually, the macho man syndrome, and overall sex and violence in the media also is a contributing factor.

The guns also play a major part whether you guys like to hear it or not.

Though guns are not the only issue.

The problem like any problem has to be solved on many levels

You managed to fit every social myth ever muttered into that one single post.

Lets go one even further than making laws to outlaw guns, in order to save even more lives, we should just make murder illegal. Oh, wait...

I'm mad about guns. I brought a shotgun to work today and I have not seen one Dove...

Did not have a gun yesterday and there were Doves everywhere.

Damn gun...

So everyone knows. The statistics don't favor strict gun control in any way shape or form. DOJ, FBI, Census Bureau. Even Studies by educational institutions like Harvard show no correlation between the lethality and danger of a society and access to firearms by law abiding citizens. I haven't seen a single shred of evidence that restricting firearms in the US (and there are multiple states and municipalities where it has been tried to a more or less degree) saves lives, reduces violent crime, and reduces "mass shootings" or "rampages". Not a single credible source can actually point to any evidence otherwise. It is ALWAYS an op-ed piece calling for the dismantlement of part of the US constitution with the hopes that it is ignored, meanwhile suggesting this action sets the precedent of being able to infringe on other amendments without recourse.

With that out of the way. This happens to be an op-ed piece... AGAIN. Editorials are written by senior editorial staff of the journal, paper, newsletter whatever. They are strictly opinion pieces. Immediately this puts the article in the realm of mere musings rather than fact for the purposes of argument.

If you think the US is being subverted in any way shape or form, and I'm inclined to believe that it is constantly, then you have to realize that the NUMBER 1 way to subvert a society (that is to make a society turn its back on what made it successful in the first place) is through mass media. If you realize that, then realize this is an op-ed piece, then realize that op-ed pieces are written by senior editorial staff, then realize that they probably have their marching orders direct from the very head of the publishing company, then you must realize this is an effort to subvert, especially considering the statistics don't support a single shred of this opinion.

reply to post by KawRider9


Know what grinds my gears? I live right on the edge of city/civilization. I can't shoot a gun in my yard (although my yard is about an acre of land covered by mesquite, cactus, and dirt). And every evening when I head out to my grill to fire it up, there are hundreds, if not thousands, of dove just hanging around in the mesquite and on the fence. Me, my son, and 20 seconds would be enough to darn near fill the freezer.

Head out to the lease in Glasscock County, and there isn't a single dove to be seen anywhere.