media blackout regarding the flooding at fracking sites in colorado????

jjkenobi
reply to post by pasiphae

 

Media blackout?? It's the only thing on the news this weekend.

true that the flooding is on the news. SPECIFICALLY the media isn't talking about the fracking sites. i'm just posting what i read. the blog used the words "media blackout" and i posted to see if anyone had more information.

These pictures are stunning, I am on overload when it comes to even thinking about Colorado, New Mexico and the disaster they re in. Why is ATS not reporting this across the board? WHERE are our members?

Check out these pictures.

www.dailymail.co.uk... for.html

pasiphae
www.texassharon.com...

i'm not hearing much about the fracking sites being flooded but apparently they are a mess and probably leaking toxic water out into the flood waters. anyone have any other information on this??

colorado is STILL getting rain and it even hailed in aurora yesterday. they really need a break!!

At this stage, I think the possibility of any contamination from fracking sites is of very little concern. It may be an issue later - though maybe no worse that siilar comtamination from sewage etc. Certainly not a news story when people are dead and missing, homes ruined, roads destroyed and towns cut off.

pasiphae
reply to post by Skydog88

 

first off i never said rain had anything to do with fracking. i said the flood waters have FLOODED the fracking sites and the containment drums are tipping over. what you're talking about is not at all what this thread is about. if you want to talk about fracking itself.... and whether or not it causes harm, earthquakes, etc.... find another thread on fracking. this is about the flood and turning over the containment drums and the dirty frack water leaking into the flood waters. DIFFERENT SUBJECT.

ETA - i do think fracking is bad and i've read plenty of evidence to back that up.

edit on 15-9-2013 by pasiphae because: (no reason given)

What about the fuel tanks in cars, oil from the same machines, coolant, etc??

What about fuel units in homes?

What about the trash and effects of everything in the water that is flooding everywhere?

Just blame fracking if there is any pollution in the flood water, it sounds better.....to some.....

reply to post by rival

It is what we do with the waste water that gives me pause. Waste water is taken to
a waste water disposal, which essentially is another well site. Often a waste water
disposal will be an old well site that didn't produce, though usually they are drilled
for the purpose of waste disposal.

What bothers me is the IMMENSE amount of water that is pumped down these
holes TO STAY. No equilibrium achieved--just lakes and lakes of waste water
pumped into the ground sometimes only 7 or 8 thousand feet deep 1 1/2 miles.

Yea I read about this and I am curious how the waste water gets so dirty. I read another posters reply that seems to answer but how much of that waste water is a result of fracking fluids(flowback)? All this stuff could contaminate water tables and that is of concern apparently.
Additionally in the OP case, wouldn't flooding bring this waste water out to spread? Maybe it dilutes it but I would guess there could still be measurable contaminants that may warrant concern. It is probably the least of their concerns at this point
Found this article on waste water danger. It is the most thorough body of work I have read on this subject, and answers all these questions.

This paper analyzes the problem of wastewater generated from the hydraulic
fracturing process of producing natural gas, particularly with regard to production in the Marcellus Shale. It shows that, while hydraulic fracturing(often called “hydrofracking” or “fracking”) generates massive amounts of polluted wastewater that threaten the health of our drinking water supplies, rivers, streams, and groundwater, federal and state regulations have not kept up with the dramatic growth in the practice and must be significantly strengthened to reduce the risks of fracking throughout the Marcellus region and elsewhere.**
Hydrofracking and the production of natural gas from fracked wells yield by- products that must be managed carefully to avoid significant harms to human health and the environment. These wastewater by-products are known as “flowback” (fracturing fluid injected into a gas well that returns to the surface when drilling pressure is released) and “produced water” (all wastewater emerging from the well after production begins, much of which is salty water contained within the shale formation).
Both types of wastewater contain potentially harmful pollutants, including salts, organic hydrocarbons (sometimes referred to simply as oil and grease), inorganic and organic additives, and naturally occurring radioactive material (NORM). These pollutants can be dangerous if they are released into the environment or if people are exposed to them. They can be toxic to humans and aquatic life, radioactive, or corrosive. They can damage ecosystem health by depleting oxygen or causing algal blooms, or they can interact with disinfectants at drinking water plants to form cancer-causing chemicals.

www.nrdc.org...
So fracking production is still a major factor in pollution of water, which the energy co's are responsible for. Unfortunately I think some co's cut corners to save money or avoid fines(Gulf Spill) and operate with questionable practices. Maybe I am wrong but it is so often the case in energy production.

Disposal through underground injection requires less treatment than other management methods, and when done with appropriate safeguards, it creates the least risk of wastewater contaminants’ being released into the environment. However, it does create a risk of earthquakes and can require transportation of wastewater over long distances if disposal wells are not located near the production well. Almost all onshore produced water in the U.S. (a category that includes natural gas produced water)
is injected, either for disposal or to maintain formation

A number of federal and state statutes and regulations govern the treatment, disposal, and reuse of shale gas wastewater. These regulations are intended to minimize or eliminate the risk of harm from exposure to wastewater pollutants, but many regulatory programs are not adequately protective,
pAge 6 | in Fracking’s Wake: New Rules are Needed to Protect Our Health and Environment from Contaminated Wastewater
and several even have complete exemptions for shale gas wastewater (or exemptions for oil and gas wastewater of all kinds, including Marcellus Shale wastewater).

So you are right, the wastewater is the biggest concern. What percentage of waste water contamination is a direct result of tracking do you think?
You acknowledge the danger of this and I wonder how others in your industry feel about it. In such a politically sensitive climate I imagine, even though more regulation would stand to benefit here, many energy co leaders scoff at the idea of big govt telling them how to operate. It is sad some middle ground can't be achieved, like doing what is best overall for the people and planet.

spec

reply to post by rival


There is new "waterless" fracking method which does not use water

Instead uses propane mixed with gelling agent which is injected into the wells

Fractures the rock then the gel breaks down - propane can be recovered from the gas stream

reply to post by Chrisfishenstein


Last couple of years had major floods from hurricanes (Isabel, Lee, Sandy) in ny town

As member of FD get calls to use our boats to corral drums floating downstream.......

Often contain chemicals like paint, gasoline or solvents

reply to post by speculativeoptimist


Well bores are "generally" in the range of 10,000' deep. The water table is "generally" between 450' to the surface. I am more concerned with OLD production than I am new production. Hydraulic fracturing has been around for decades. It's just a new topic to bitch about.

Somewhere ^^ above this post someone talked about disposal wells. Bingo. They are usually old production sites that don't produce. He was right... that is the elephant in the room. Steel in the ground corrodes. The rate of corrosion is dependant on a lot of factors that I'm not going to go into. By law producers are required to maintain cathodic protection on well bores and pipelines for external corrosion and, if the situation warrants it, some form of internal corrosion protection. While they are operating, most producers will do what they are supposed to in order to meet federal, state, and local requirements. Once the site is "abandoned" all bets are off.

The floodwaters are most likely affecting production sites more than they are "fracking" sites (you sound like a moron (no offense) when you use that term. It's called hydraulic fracturing. There is no such word as fracking). There are usually procedures in place try to prevent production tanks from floating away but moving water is a powerful force to reckon with. f=mv

The other HUGE elephant in the room is petrochemicals. You cannot look in any direction at this moment and not see something that is derived from petrochemicals. Your computer and it's peripherals. Your clothes. Your medicine. The cable that supplies your internet connection. Your car. Your food. Your toiletry products... Your house... let that soak in for a little while. Visualize your addiction. Embrace it. Welcome to the matrix.

All of the hand wringing and gnashing of teeth that goes on over hydraulic fracturing and the evil oil empire and how great solar power is (lol) and how wind power is going to save us (LMAO) and electric cars are going to free us (ROTFLMAO) is NOT going to do anything to stop the energy industry from finding and bringing oil to the surface. YOU need it's byproducts to survive and you will not make it without your plastics and electronics. You are the problem

Oil occurs naturally by the way. It's what is done after it is recovered that makes it unfriendly to the earth.

reply to post by Mike6158

Thanks? No offense taken? Sure. The term fracking is now in most dictionaries and used quite often by the industry itself. I realize that energy PR firms have suggested not using the term because it sounds bad. Yes fracking has been done for decades, but the rate in this century has grown exponentially and the earthquakes are a new variable. The increased rate increase potential incidents. The more fracking, the more likely valuable water sources will be affected.

The petro section of your post is no news and not really related to the discussion, but thanks for trying to make me look bad. Yes we are all hypocrites to some degree I suppose, but that does not mean we should refrain from expressing concerns. Glad the alternative(supplemental) energy issue makes you lollmaoroflmao and such. Belittling efforts to get away from oil dependency sounds kind of moronic(no offense). I would continue a dialog with you but condescending comments do no one any good in the spirit of learning, so I will not respond to you anymore.

reply to post by Mike6158


never been called a moron before. sorry i didn't use the appropriate technical term. i've heard the term fracking a lot...... didn't know what else to call it. apologies for sounding like a moron.

reply to post by speculativeoptimist
I hope I live to see the results of the leftist war against the petroleum industry. I'll be laughing when there is 30 dollar a gallon rationed gasoline and not enough fuel to heat your houses. I probably won't live that long, because I've only got a few years left, so I'm going to start laughing now and quit trying to educate the reactionary ignorant.

I say go for it and see what it gets you.

I guess the facts of the Global Warming fiasco have finally caught up with the truth and the wackos have to have another 'cause' to piss and moan about... so hey we still got fracking, lets go for it and see how many people we can put of out of work.

reply to post by elfrog

Leftist war? Go for what, learning? I am not sure what you mean, but I am not for starting any wars.
IMO, heating our homes will be only part of the problem. Finding clean water on the other hand...
I am not for zero drilling or fracking, and I have already posted my support of the jobs aspect. I am just pointing out areas of concern in my little perspective. I would rather you quit laughing and continue educating, which I have stated I am all for, if it is without snide tones.

pasiphae
www.texassharon.com...

i'm not hearing much about the fracking sites being flooded but apparently they are a mess and probably leaking toxic water out into the flood waters. anyone have any other information on this??

colorado is STILL getting rain and it even hailed in aurora yesterday. they really need a break!!

I lived several years in mountains there and many of the small mountain community's, all of which are along creeks or rivers, are simply gone now. Wiped clean by the flood waters. I pray for my friends and family that are still there.

As for fracking, they won't cover it, they will cover it up. I had met one of the people who have actually died there because of it. He drank the water from spring on his land that was polluted from Wells on adjacent ranch. It was really sad. There are places you can light the creek on fire.

People have lost there homes because neighbors freckled and it polluted their wells and land. For a place that has and cares so much for the precious outdoors and wildlife it is a tragedy of greed. It is so awful i want to cry thinking about it. I worked these oil fields in my younger days and I can tell you they are pumping other companies toxic waste down these wells for money. They refused to tell congress what was in the nude and slur we pumped, I can tell you three thousand different chemicals, sixty to eighty cancer causing agents.

I was often sick just pumping the stuff it was awful. Greed is a terrible thing and they did this fracking without proper study and in many cases knowing they would pollute the ground water. They even caused earth quakes. Crazy.... These people only care about money and if allow this to continue we are going to lose the most important thing we have, our water. It will be unusable.

This is one people should unite and stop the practice.

The Bot

Hey Everyone,

I rarely throw my two cents in on this site but this is my line of work so I thought I would contribute. I'm a geologist who works almost exclusively in the DJ Basin (Northeast Colorado). I work for an independent oil contractor meaning we have ears at a lot of companies.

What I've heard:

1. As a precaution many of the wells in the flood paths were preemptively shut in, just in case. Once shut the wells will not leak without suffering some pretty severe damage, there are tests that have to be preformed on well heads in this state and they do not mess around with that stuff.

2. Producing oil wells return all of the fracking fluids to surface within the first few days of production. Many wells in this field are expected to pump for decades so there isn't much fracking fluid to worry about. If a well did begin to vent into the water it would be only oil that it was letting go. That's not much better but I wanted to make sure that it was known that fracking fluids aren't present after the fracking process takes place. Also the process is over a mile down (about 6000-7000 vertical feet). Ground water in the area is no deeper than 1500 feet.

3. Fracking operations were suspended as soon as it was certain that the floods were going to happen. All equipment, not just fracking gear but everything was moved to higher ground. In some cases rigs have become stranded but are in safe locations. You don't want to risk a 40 million dollar piece of iron.

Now for the bad.

1. My biggest concern environmentally is the holding tanks. Even if you got the well shut in you may not have been able to get to the tank and get the oil out. If some of the tanks have been ruptured there could be limited environmental damage.

2. Several Oil companies have already expressed worry over holding facilities, pipelines, and damaged well heads. Aerial surveys have begun taking place and several operating oil companies in the region have activated their emergency operations offices in Denver to prepare for well head repair and possible environmental clean up operations.

I haven't heard anything though as far as major spills. If one of these well heads was letting go right now, you'd know it.

Cheers,

The Noodle Wrangler

It's funny, as of late I have been seeing pro cracking commercials here in Colorado, something I rarely see. They talk about how completely safe it is and even good for Colorado as a whole. I didn't give it two thoughts but now that you brought it up, perhaps they are doing pre damage control.
No doubt with all the flooding just about everywhere, it's got to be causing problems. I could only guess but does anyone know the issues with flooding on a fracking site?

reply to post by pasiphae


So the fracking companies inability to fight um...rain is not their fault? not an issue?

reply to post by Chrisfishenstein


You do not need to make huge cavities under the ground for the others you listed. Hopefully you understand what difference that makes.

reply to post by Mike6158


Fracking is indeed a word. It is short for water fracturing. Calling someone a moron for using words you are not familiar with makes you look like...well...

Fracking is about 98% water and 2% chemicals.
The chemicals are found in many household items such a lip stick, detergents, surfactants, underarm deodorant, toothpaste and the like.
So where is the buggy man, the Frankenstein monster lurking in this for you?


www.chk.com...

Not sure how relevant this is to the OP or why they are doing this but according to techdirt:

FEMA Grounds Private Drones That Were Helping To Map Boulder Floods, Threatens To Arrest Operators

Early Saturday morning Falcon UAV was heading up to Lyons to complete a damage assessment mapping flight when we received a call from our Boulder EOC point of contact who notified us that FEMA had taken over operations and our request to fly drones was not only denied but more specifically we were told by FEMA that anyone flying drones would be arrested.

We are very disappointed in FEMAs response to actively prevent the use of UAVs and drone technology when these services were offered for free and at a time when manned helicopters could be used for more critical missions such as evacuations and high mountain search and rescues in inaccessible communities.