Unity or Separation - which way do you choose to see things and WHY? Which brings more Peace and Joy

reply to post by TheSubversiveOne


What's the difference between our body and a rock lying on the ground? What sets us apart from a rock? Can a rock look up at us and make a judgement about what we are? If not, why?

It seems to me that you are dead set against the possibility of a spirit existing. Is it because religion teaches of a spirit and you are just against anything they teach, no matter how true or untrue it is?

What is it that gives you thoughts, emotions, wants, dreams, etc.? Does that part of you not exist in your opinion? What is life other than the part of yourself you can't see? How can you appreciate your physical self if there isn't an invisible part of you that is able to see it? How can you appreciate hot without cold or light without dark? Everything has an opposite, including your physical body.

I'll leave you to think about that, but as of right now, you are unwilling to think outside the box. You are your body, but more importantly, you are your spirit as well.

Itisnowagain
In deep sleep there is no appearance - there is nothing

There is to anyone looking at his body.

Hey if he is everything and nothing then he must be that person watching someone sleeping so wouldn't that mean he is aware of himself.

Your particular word game gets tiring at times.

reply to post by daskakik


He said from YOUR perspective, there is nothing while asleep. While I don't 100% agree with this because of dreams, I do understand what he means. When you go to sleep, does it really feel like 8 hours, or does it feel like you barely closed your eyes before waking up?

You cannot be aware of not being aware. You could fall into a coma for 50 years and from YOUR perspective, it would seem like the blink of an eye when you woke up. This is what he's saying, that life is continuous and there are no gaps in-between from YOUR perspective.

reply to post by TheSubversiveOne

Sure, we all exist in the same reality, but that in no way connects us.

But isn't the reality that we share the thing that connects us? You just admitted we are connected, but you still deny it.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Yes but he is always going on about you being everything and nothing yet he had no problem slipping into "YOU" mode to make his point.

3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by TheSubversiveOne

 

What's the difference between our body and a rock lying on the ground? What sets us apart from a rock? Can a rock look up at us and make a judgement about what we are? If not, why?

It seems to me that you are dead set against the possibility of a spirit existing. Is it because religion teaches of a spirit and you are just against anything they teach, no matter how true or untrue it is?

What is it that gives you thoughts, emotions, wants, dreams, etc.? Does that part of you not exist in your opinion? What is life other than the part of yourself you can't see? How can you appreciate your physical self if there isn't an invisible part of you that is able to see it? How can you appreciate hot without cold or light without dark? Everything has an opposite, including your physical body.

I'll leave you to think about that, but as of right now, you are unwilling to think outside the box. You are your body, but more importantly, you are your spirit as well.

The difference between a rock and a living organism is the "living" part.

I personally am enjoying thesubversiveones explanations, it makes for good educational discussion.

Two events that have shaped MY perceptions of spirit and conciousness....

1) Seeing the ghost of my aunt waving goodbye to me when I was around 8 yrs old. She was accompanied by a grey haired man, whom to this day I have no idea who it was. But the kicker is that I didnt even find out she had committed suicide until 2 weeks after her "goodbye".

2) The death of my mother, who during "unconsciousness"(a coma) on the first night of her admittance into the hospital, I was there talking to her, explaining that the doctors dont know what they are doing, that the brain is still very much an unknown science and she could beat them.
The next morning I went home to get some sleep and my sister would sit with her during the day.
While I wasnt there, my mother, momentarily "awoke" asked my sister "wheres David?"(me), she then said, "we beat them".

What I would like an explanation to is how an "unconscious" person can be aware of what is going on around them, and be conscious, enough to not only reply, but reply to a specific point I made while she was very much "brain dead".

The questions of soul/spirit/consciousness are deeply philosophical questions, and I feel that an opposing view like that of thesubversiveone is more valuable to my own understanding of self and reality, than someone that agrees with me.

The link to the explanation of consciousness looks very interesting, I have bookmarked it for when I have more time to read it.

Spirituality is something that we get through life experience, its a bit like ghosts and UFO's, you dont really believe until you experience it for yourself, and I wouldnt expect anyone to either, because I wouldnt.

daskakik

Itisnowagain
In deep sleep there is no appearance - there is nothing

There is to anyone looking at his body.

Did you notice that I had capitalized FOR YOU?

When you go to sleep FOR YOU the body disappears, the world disappears - for you there is absolutely nothing appearing in deep sleep.

reply to post by daskakik


Well, just like you can't have hot without cold, you can't have everything without nothing. It's the dichotomy that is the universe, as above so below. Since the perception of consciousness is all that really exists, it must be everything and nothing at the same time, the visible and the invisible. It sounds confusing, but it makes sense to me personally.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

You missed my point. It isn't just about the content but the way the author presented that content and how he thinks that putting things in caps attributes some kind of pass, to differ from the same tired and poorly explained concept that he is always pushing.

daskakik
reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

 

You missed my point. It isn't just about the content but the way the author presented that content and how he thinks that putting things in caps attributes some kind of pass, to differ from the same tired and poorly explained concept that he is always pushing.

edit on 11-9-2013 by daskakik because: (no reason given)

The non conceptual is what I point to but you are divided so are lost in concepts.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

What's the difference between our body and a rock lying on the ground? What sets us apart from a rock? Can a rock look up at us and make a judgement about what we are? If not, why?

A body is an organism. A rock is not. I'm fairly certain I don't need to explain the differences between a rock and a living organism. A rock doesn't have eyes, is one reason why a rock doesn't look up at us. There are of course many more, but it would be a waste of both our time.

It seems to me that you are dead set against the possibility of a spirit existing. Is it because religion teaches of a spirit and you are just against anything they teach, no matter how true or untrue it is?

And you are dead set against the possibility of a spirit not existing. Maybe you can explain how we differ in this respect.

What is it that gives you thoughts, emotions, wants, dreams, etc.? Does that part of you not exist in your opinion? What is life other than the part of yourself you can't see? How can you appreciate your physical self if there isn't an invisible part of you that is able to see it? How can you appreciate hot without cold or light without dark? Everything has an opposite, including your physical body.

The body gives us thoughts, emotions, wants and dreams.

Hot, cold, light, dark etc. are adjectives that describe something. Are you an adjective? or are you that something we are describing? Basic grammar is quite simple.

If everything has an opposite, what is the opposite of a rock? What is the opposite of Jupiter? What is the opposite of a tree?

I'll leave you to think about that.

I'll leave you to think about that, but as of right now, you are unwilling to think outside the box. You are your body, but more importantly, you are your spirit as well.

Sorry, but you are spouting an all too common dogma that has persisted for millennia. Maybe you can explain how that is thinking outside of the box?

3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by TheSubversiveOne

 

Sure, we all exist in the same reality, but that in no way connects us.

But isn't the reality that we share the thing that connects us?

You just admitted we are connected, but you still deny it.

connect |kəˈnekt|
verb [ with obj. ]
bring together or into contact so that a real or notional link is established: the electrodes were connected to a recording device | a modem connects computers over a telephone line.
• join together so as to provide access and communication: all the buildings are connected by underground passages | [ no obj. ] : the highway connects with major routes from all parts of the country.
• link to a power or water supply: your house is connected to the main cable TV network.
• put (someone) into contact by telephone: I was quickly connected to the police.
• [ no obj. ] (of a train, bus, aircraft, etc.) be timed to arrive at its destination before another train, aircraft, etc., departs so that passengers can transfer from one to the other: the bus connects with trains from Union Station.
• associate or relate in some respect: employees are rewarded with bonuses connected to their firm's performance | a variety of physical complaints connected with stress.
• think of as being linked or related: I didn't connect the two incidents at the time.
• (of a thing) provide or have a link or relationship with (someone or something): there was no evidence to connect Jeff with the theft.
• [ no obj. ] form a relationship or feel an affinity: I taught in a reading program and I connected with kids individually.
• [ no obj. ] informal (of a blow) hit the intended target: the blow connected and he felt a burst of pain.

Itisnowagain
The non conceptual is what I point to but you are divided so are lost in concepts.

Don't kid yourself. I am not lost or divided and I recognize the flaw in your concept and the even more flawed manner in which you try to share it with others.

On topic: Unity or seperation? Which is the truth?

That isn't even a valid question. As usuall arpgme has found a way to compare an apple and an orange to try and find out which one is a pear.

Would you say that the picture on a tv screen is connected to the screen?

Or are they one thing?

daskakik

Itisnowagain
The non conceptual is what I point to but you are divided so are lost in concepts.

Don't kid yourself. I am not lost or divided and I recognize the flaw in your concept and the even more flawed manner in which you try to share it with others.

On topic: Unity or seperation? Which is the truth?

That isn't even a valid question. As usuall arpgme has found a way to compare an apple and an orange to try and find out which one is a pear.

edit on 11-9-2013 by daskakik because: (no reason given)

Tell us what you know?

reply to post by Itisnowagain

When you go to sleep FOR YOU the body disappears, the world disappears - for you there is absolutely nothing appearing in deep sleep. In deep sleep there is no appearance - there is nothing - you do not even know you exist, there is no awareness of breathing or thinking or the world. There is nothing appearing FOR YOU.

So in deep sleep you don't appear to exist - it is only when the light comes on (when the eyes open in the morning) that you know you are.

When you watch someone sleep, do they disappear? If not, you may infer that the same happens to you, that you remain while you sleep.

TheSubversiveOne
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

When you go to sleep FOR YOU the body disappears, the world disappears - for you there is absolutely nothing appearing in deep sleep. In deep sleep there is no appearance - there is nothing - you do not even know you exist, there is no awareness of breathing or thinking or the world. There is nothing appearing FOR YOU.

So in deep sleep you don't appear to exist - it is only when the light comes on (when the eyes open in the morning) that you know you are.

When you watch someone sleep, do they disappear? If not, you may infer that the same happens to you, that you remain while you sleep.

Why bring 'someone else' into the equation when I have stated 'for you''?

reply to post by TheSubversiveOne


What dogma? Just as I thought, you are turned off by anything spiritual because of perverted religious teachings.

Even though you disagree with religion, it has still shaped the way you think without you knowing it. Even religion is based on a fundamental truth, that's how they work, they take the truth then twist and turn it to their liking, using a fundamental truth to trap people in the dogma they have surrounded it with.

We are more than our physical bodies. What is the difference between our atomic bodies and the atomic body of a rock? What gives our eyes the spark it needs to see? How come a dead body can have eyes yet still not see through them? What is the difference between a dead body and a live body, if as you say we are only a body? You are ignoring the fundamental part of my argument, whether intentionally or unintentionally I don't know, but it's obvious.

reply to post by TheSubversiveOne


All those definitions describe how this reality connects us. If we aren't connected, how are we communicating right now?

You're a stubborn one.

reply to post by Itisnowagain

Because when you used "for you" you created a bias. You asked a loaded question.

Pointing out what someone else sees exposes that bias and rebukes your assertion.