Unity or Separation - which way do you choose to see things and WHY? Which brings more Peace and Joy

daskakik
This whole thread is about the words (concepts) "unity" and "seperation" and how one could be real truth while the other isn't.

Is the thread about words? Or do the words point toward something and nothing?

Is it possible to sit in the word 'chair'?
Will the word 'water' quench your thirst?

daskakik
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

I have but it is usually used by a teacher to guide a student. Your not my teacher and your not going to get me to tango. If you think you are then my point stands and if not then, the Socratic method may not be the best choice.

Teachers, students, or indeed anyone interested in probing thinking at a deep level can and should construct Socratic questions and engage in these questions.

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by Itisnowagain

You can keep asking but I have already told you that I will not answer your loaded questions.

Justify it as probing if you want but, I find that you are always asking questions and never really answer your own or anybody elses. It's a waste of time and I ask that you stop trying to have me take part in this type of exercise, in this or any other thread.

TheSubversiveOne

That's where we differ. I am not so nihilistic as you perhaps. What you find bleak, I find beautiful and meaningful. What purpose does inventing supernatural forces and souls and spirits serve? For Hope? Hope for what? More disappointment is all one will find there. Saying we are of supernatural origin, of supernatural power, or supernatural immortality, is the deepest betrayal of what is natural, of what actually exists, like one is spitting on the world, on living beings, on real things and each other. Why do we invent supernatural entities and forces? so we can stand the sight of ourselves?

Do you really see me as less of a human because I am without a spirit? Because I am not designed?

edit on 11-9-2013 by TheSubversiveOne because: (no reason given)

Hey if you find meaning without hope then I praise you.

I hope for better future for my children, and maybe even my soul if reincarnation is real.
I hope for a way out of the pain and suffering being poor brings. It drives me to better myself, and educate myself. Hope drives my ambitions, and will to succeed in them.
Supernatural forces, while often "invented"(for many reasons) are also often "witnessed", and possessed by others.
Telekinesis for example is a supernatural property that has been proven.
Isnt the current explanation for poltergeist activity, due to the telekinetic properties of a child or someone within the "haunted" property.

NDE after NDE that describes exactly the same experiences.
Children recounting past lives, until they get to an age that they finally forget the past life.
These are experiences, not invented ideas, we just need to find an explanation.

Paranormal research is a valid field of science, it seeks to explain the unexplained.

Isnt every invention down to someone thinking out of the box and creating an idea through original thought?
Isnt every scientific theory based on the imaginings of the scientist that proposes their theories?
Its only through testing the theories we come to realise the realities.

Something is only supernatural until we can "imagine" an explanation that others can later prove by testing the theories.
Lightning was an angry god until we realised how electricity works.
Earthquakes were an angry god until we learned about plate tectonics.
Sickness was caused by evil spirits until we learned medicine.

None of those things were invented, its just the "ideas" as to what explained them were proven to be wrong.

I can vouch by my own personal experience as to the existence of spirits, but that obviously means nothing to anyone else that hasnt experienced it, maybe my explanations are wrong, but the experiences happened, I didnt "invent" them, I just tried fitting them into my understanding of the world.

Im not a nihilist, my life has meaning and purpose, once I had found it. I just see a life without spirit or hope or seeking to make the world better for our decendants to be without purpose and ultimately selfish and materialistic, which I see as a major problem in the world right now.
Maybe that is more down to my lack of being able to see from that perspective?

From when I was a small child I have always wondered...WHY? What does it all mean?
Im just trying to answer those questions through study, which brings me to places like ATS and to have discussions with people like yourself. It helps me immensely, and hopefully it can help others on their own personal journey of understanding of self and purpose and the nature of reality.

daskakik
I find that you are always asking questions and never really answer your own or anybody elses. It's a waste of time and I ask that you stop trying to have me take part in this type of exercise, in this or any other thread.

I answer questions.
And it is you who keeps responding by telling me I am wrong and that you are fed up with my posts.
You are obviously getting something out of this.

I do not require any answers for the questions I have asked - the questions are for you or anyone who wants to contemplate what is going on here. It is not compulsory.

Itisnowagain
I answer questions.

With vague pseudo-intellectual nonsense.

And it is you who keeps responding by telling me I am wrong and that you are fed up with my posts.
You are obviously getting something out of this.

I'm responding to you but the message is intended for the other readers.

I do not require any answers for the questions I have asked - the questions are for you or anyone who wants to contemplate what is going on here. It is not compulsory.

But some do expect answers to the questions they have asked and not just have someone answer with a question or something so vague that it says nothing to them. Even if your dead on your delivery seems empty.

daskakik

Itisnowagain
I answer questions.

With vague pseudo-intellectual nonsense.

And it is you who keeps responding by telling me I am wrong and that you are fed up with my posts.
You are obviously getting something out of this.

I'm responding to you but the message is intended for the other readers.

For what purpose?

I do not require any answers for the questions I have asked - the questions are for you or anyone who wants to contemplate what is going on here. It is not compulsory.

But some do expect answers to the questions they have asked and not just have someone answer with a question or something so vague that it says nothing to them.

I point to nothing (the non conceptual) but the mind will not like nothing so will always fight it. The mind believes in 'things' (concepts) and cannot see past them.

Itisnowagain
For what purpose?

To point out to readers that they should not expect anything better than the example below.

I point to nothing (the non conceptual) but the mind will not like nothing so will always fight it. The mind believes in 'things' (concepts) and cannot see past them.

daskakik

Itisnowagain
For what purpose?

To point out to readers that they should not expect anything better than the example below.

I point to nothing (the non conceptual) but the mind will not like nothing so will always fight it. The mind believes in 'things' (concepts) and cannot see past them.

Just because you do not understand??
All you are ever expressing is that you do not understand what is written.

reply to post by Itisnowagain

Who says I don't?

Knowing has not blinded me to the fact that most people will see nothing more than gibberish. When you lay the Socratic method on them, they will just see some arrogant person answering questions with questions.

It starts to hurt if I hold my breath too long.

BardingTheBard
It starts to hurt if I hold my breath too long.

It stops hurting if you hold it long enough.

Then the real fun starts.

daskakik
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

Who says I don't?

Knowing has not blinded me to the fact that most people will see nothing more than gibberish. When you lay the Socratic method on them, they will just see some arrogant person answering questions with questions.

This is what you see.
And then you speak for everyone.

reply to post by daskakik

Tell everyone what you know.
Can you say which state brings peace and joy - is it separation or unity?

reply to post by daskakik

Exhalation either way!

Itisnowagain
This is what you see.
And then you speak for everyone.

Not everyone but it is still what I see. You can choose to ignore it.

Tell everyone what you know.

Why? What I know will make no difference. I think OneManArmy said it well:

Spirituality is something that we get through life experience, its a bit like ghosts and UFO's, you dont really believe until you experience it for yourself, and I wouldnt expect anyone to either, because I wouldnt.

Can you say which state brings peace and joy - is it separation or unity?

I have already made my comment on the OP.

daskakik

Itisnowagain
This is what you see.
And then you speak for everyone.

Not everyone but it is still what I see. You can choose to ignore it.

And if you do not like my posts you can ignore them. Or you can ridicule them - it makes no difference to me.

Coming here to tell others about my posts is arrogance - can they not read and make up their own minds? But if that is your bag who am I to judge?

Itisnowagain
And if you do not like my posts you can ignore them. Or you can ridicule them - it makes no difference to me.

Or I can just comment as I usually do. That shouldn't bother you either.

Coming here to tell others about my posts is arrogance - can they not read and make up their own minds? But if that is your bag who am I to judge?

Not really. I don't think that telling other readers what your posting style is like makes me better, smarter, or more important than anyone else.

daskakik

Can you say which state brings peace and joy - is it separation or unity?

I have already made my comment on the OP.

Maybe you could copy and paste it like you did for onemanarmy so I can see what you have to offer.

daskakik

Itisnowagain
And if you do not like my posts you can ignore them. Or you can ridicule them - it makes no difference to me.

Or I can just comment as I usually do. That shouldn't bother you either.

Coming here to tell others about my posts is arrogance - can they not read and make up their own minds? But if that is your bag who am I to judge?

Not really. I don't think that telling other readers what your posting style is like makes me better, smarter, or more important than anyone else.

Yes it says you think you know better and are wiser.
Maybe you are. It is hard to tell when you do not express what you know.