Breaking news: Putin: Russia will help Syria in case of foreign military assault.

The question is not whether or not the US will move on Syria, but rather exactly how much of a response is China and Russia willing to give? China hasn't been in real military conflict since WWII. Are they willing to actually shed some blood over this, or are they going to be disdainful and angry while physically doing nothing? How far is Russia really willing to go to stand up to the US? It can't be forgotten that Vladimir Putin is the former head of the KGB and is no doubt remembering the glory days of Mother Russia when they could flex their muscles and the US would actually flinch. Are they willing to get their hands dirty and shed some blood to not be seen as a push-over by the world?

China and Russia have some real questions they need to ask themselves and their people. Just how far are they really willing to go to stand up to the US? Are they willing to simultaneously conduct ICBM missile "tests" on America's Pacific and Atlantic coasts? Are they willing to actually do something to force the US to stand down? How much pressure are they really willing to exert? What are they willing to lose? What are they willing to do to become the big guys on the block. Talk is cheap. Somewhere deep down inside, President Vladimir Putin, and President Hu Jintao both know that. They've made the stand, now it's up to both of them to back it up with force that can not be mistaken.

As an American, I have to admit that it's long overdue. This is the title fight we've needed for generations.

Originally posted by Variable
reply to post by RocksFromSpace

 

I hope Russia, China, Iran, Syria and the rest understand that "We the People" are not our Government and act accordingly.

Well... I don't want to attack Syria, but if the little fellas wanna play with the big Man on the block they are gonna get a smack down. I don't think the US trembles at the might of Russia, Syria or Iran. I don't think China would do anything to interrupt the flow of goods to Walmart. I just stopped by Harbor Freight on the way home from work. Damn those Chinese make some cheap products. That place is like grown-man crack. You think China is going disembowel their economy over Syria? I don't think so.

America haters have to understand that we spend more on the military then almost everyone else combined. We are NOT a paper tiger. Were a fully grown cyborg tiger with fricken lasers on our head.


V

"if the little fellas wanna play with the big Man on the block they are gonna get a smack down. "

LOL! It's always fun to listen to you hubristic and proud Americans talk about how mighty and tough you are in the world.

So, let's see. $17 Trillion of debt. Over $70 Trillion in unfunded liabilities. A record 46 Million Americans on food stamps last year. Your country can't afford Universal Health Care so its citizens just die instead of being cared for. Or go bankrupt. Or both.

Oh, and by the way, you can't afford to start another war against Syria, but apparently Saudi Arabia has kindly stepped up to lend you some cash. LOL!!!

On the plus side those "fricken lasers on your head" look pretty darned cool.

Originally posted by bpg131313
The question is not whether or not the US will move on Syria, but rather exactly how much of a response is China and Russia willing to give? China hasn't been in real military conflict since WWII. Are they willing to actually shed some blood over this, or are they going to be disdainful and angry while physically doing nothing? How far is Russia really willing to go to stand up to the US? It can't be forgotten that Vladimir Putin is the former head of the KGB and is no doubt remembering the glory days of Mother Russia when they could flex their muscles and the US would actually flinch. Are they willing to get their hands dirty and shed some blood to not be seen as a push-over by the world?

China and Russia have some real questions they need to ask themselves and their people. Just how far are they really willing to go to stand up to the US? Are they willing to simultaneously conduct ICBM missile "tests" on America's Pacific and Atlantic coasts? Are they willing to actually do something to force the US to stand down? How much pressure are they really willing to exert? What are they willing to lose? What are they willing to do to become the big guys on the block. Talk is cheap. Somewhere deep down inside, President Vladimir Putin, and President Hu Jintao both know that. They've made the stand, now it's up to both of them to back it up with force that can not be mistaken.

As an American, I have to admit that it's long overdue. This is the title fight we've needed for generations.

This is the title fight we've needed for generations.

See my above post relating to hubris...

You can add STUPIDITY to the mix as well.

"Title fight".

And that's the extent of your brain? That's the amount of intelligence in there? Did you get a lobotomy recently? Help me out here. I'm just trying to figure out how you could be so utterly stupid.

Russia has been allies of syria from the beginning but the difference now is that putin is pledging openly. politically that's like throwing the first punch. big difgetence

So Putin saying Russia will begin humanitarion aid to help the Syrian people has some how become Russia is going to war over Syria? So Russia is going enter a war against NATO and the Arab League and by extension most of the planet to defend a regime it has not even bothered to even make the smallest diplomatic moves to protect? If Russia was that stupid China might go to war and grab up the eastern half of Russia because the Russians will sure not need it anymore. Their are certain military realities and those realities are that if you take away the Nukes and the Security Council seat Russia is not a global power any longer.

reply to post by spy66


The primary make up of the Russian Fleet currently deployed in the Mediterranean is large landing ships. This is a well practiced make-up for contingency evacuation. The Russians have practiced this deployment over the last year or so.

The Syrian coast line is about 80 miles long. That is a huge distance and anyway the US and Coalition will have every Russian Navy surface ship mapped and location known before any cruise missiles are fired. Depending on the targets many of the ship/sub launched cruise missiles will simply use Lebanese airspace as the easy option. Again depending on the target the Turks could give permission to route cruise missiles over Hatay province. The other option is B-52s deploying cruise missiles from Saudi airspace with the missiles routing through Jordan.

See following for naval assets in the region.

turkishnavy.net...

No strike is going to happen in the first place. You guys are taking up bandwidth for no reason.

Originally posted by princeofpeace
No strike is going to happen in the first place. You guys are taking up bandwidth for no reason.

I tend to think that way too, our president wanted a way out, and I don't think House is going to approve it. In the Russian influence in the region is going to increase, thanks to our leadership.

reply to post by macaronicaesar

Somehow I seriously doubt that. In fact it seems to be too convenient if he did, after all he was a member of the Congressional Black Caucus, that was discussing this while was a senator. How they were pleased that Colin Powel used the term Genocide in talking about the Darfur situation.

"I told you so" glad that partly my prognosis comes true, nobody knows the entire truth

www.abovetopsecret.com...
Interfax: 4 Russian ships head for Syria
"but primarily in order to organize a possible evacuation of Russians from Syria"

the other possibility different from the one I wrote here, (i.e. engagement of RUssia plus others (incl USA) in mass SALVATION before any World War breaks out), is:
2. Extraterrestrial involvement to do the same.
The earth cannot be left to nuclear fire that possibly will see the surface depopulated for centuries (and that is not exaggerated if you go into details of the full capacity of nuclear war),
without prior rescue of life, of humanity, of species (probably already done), of all who WANT to be saved. Call it whatever. Call it a rapture. Some will demonize it.
If the earth nations don't do it, the exo-earth nations will do it.

Originally posted by 2012newstart
"I told you so" glad that partly my prognosis comes true, nobody knows the entire truth

www.abovetopsecret.com...
Interfax: 4 Russian ships head for Syria
"but primarily in order to organize a possible evacuation of Russians from Syria"

A large landing ship can be used for multiple reasons. Evacuation may be an "official" reason or ruse.

A military ship typically has equipment to locate other ships (search radar) as well as to transmit data to missiles.

Missiles need guidance. USA has excellent satellites. Others use forward observers.

I still see a possibility of a shore battery attempting to take down a US ship.

It is a difficult proposition, and USA will definitely try everything to avoid this possibility, but I still see the risk.

Originally posted by GargIndia

I still see a possibility of a shore battery attempting to take down a US ship. It is a difficult proposition, and USA will definitely try everything to avoid this possibility, but I still see the risk.

It will be an extraordinarily difficult to almost stupid proposition to launch a shore battery, because not only will the Yakhont be fired by inexperienced forces, and without battle testing, but does not possess the MEZ range to make it to any significant targets in finality (which may be firing from the orange crosshatched Tomahawk standoff MEZ zone). The launch signature will be detected and engaged by battle experienced CAP almost immediately. In the Iraq first war, the missile techs basically had to launch and then leave the vehicle and telemetry control on foot, running.

The Yakhonts are useless. Israel struck the Yakhont storage depot earlier in the year because it is a greater threat to them, than it is to the US.

The yellow MEZ area, where CAP will patrol, will enable US CAP forces to place an AGM on the launch signature within 120 seconds after a launch signature is detected. The Syrians will literally have to push the button and bolt out of the telemetry hut away from the launch at a full sprint.

of course they can sink all US ships, both the Russian and the Syrian missiles. I think if such development has been decided, the Syrians will do it, not the Russians. They have the same missiles. Of course the evacuation will be useful occasion to enter on the ground by light armor and spetznaz.

What I want to touch however, is deeper than that. Russia must evacuate also Moscow and other major cities if it intends any kind of bigger offensive against the West or part of it. (the partition is another topic). Even more if the plans include strategic strikes. We all know of the possibility of nuclear winter and even nuclear tornadoes spoken of by early scientists of Manhattan project.

Even deeper level than that. Should there be WW3 with possibly apocalyptic outcome (and no one can guarantee once started it will stop with Syria), then there should be escape way for humanity as well. Russia has some 200 underground cities reportedly online. I don't know how many real ones, or how advanced they are. I suggest they have, the way USA have according to leakers. I advice research on the topic while still internet functions (miss one-two entertainment shows and do that homework).

If so, Russia is even obliged by higher forces to save as many as she can. So is USA. The stories of TR -3A and -3B planes are not fake. Check google images. Did you make these perfect drawings? Did a crazy man do it for self entertainment? This is the truth presented via plausible deniability mode. Both Russia and USA have obligations according higher laws known to themselves.

Frankly, I don't know the situation with the billion+ wide China and India. How they will behave and how many people of their own they will save. Perhaps they serve other laws, I just don't know. But I am certain Russia cannot bomb Manhattan without first offer the Manhattan people to be saved on Russian planes. Or if that will do Obama instead. It is not only one city. The cloud will circle the globe in a matter of weeks. In a matter of months (until new year) all vegetation will die. There will be no survivors n the surface.

I expect therefore a kind invitation for evacuation in the Russian vast underground facilities, cities. Also on American side. If all what we were told and what our sane reason tells us of catastrophic consequences of nuclear war is true. Let alone a bigger, planetary or space disaster that was speculated in 2012. I say that because the logic to make WW3 that will look small thing in comparison to supernova, is not that strange to the people who take decisions on our planet. Forget about the earth as habitable planet in the next centuries, at least.

reply to post by TheEthicalSkeptic


You are discounting that the missile can be guided by a ship.

All that needs to be done by a shore battery is to launch.

The presence of Russian/Chinese ships does create complications for the Americans.

We need to see how it all pans out.

I still see the risk of attack on a US ship.

Originally posted by GargIndia
It is now USA one one side and (Russia+China) on the other side.

Look closer at what's emblazoned on the boxing glove to the right

I have to temporarily cease my participation in this thread for personal reasons. Perhaps we will see the mass evacuation as in Lebanon-Israeli war. I expect Obama speech, the vote, and Russia to show how exactly will help Syria. Thanks for the good discussion!

Originally posted by TheEthicalSkeptic

Originally posted by GargIndia

I still see a possibility of a shore battery attempting to take down a US ship. It is a difficult proposition, and USA will definitely try everything to avoid this possibility, but I still see the risk.

It will be an extraordinarily difficult to almost stupid proposition to launch a shore battery, because not only will the Yakhont be fired by inexperienced forces, and without battle testing, but does not possess the MEZ range to make it to any significant targets in finality (which may be firing from the orange crosshatched Tomahawk standoff MEZ zone). The launch signature will be detected and engaged by battle experienced CAP almost immediately. In the Iraq first war, the missile techs basically had to launch and then leave the vehicle and telemetry control on foot, running.

The Yakhonts are useless. Israel struck the Yakhont storage depot earlier in the year because it is a greater threat to them, than it is to the US.

The yellow MEZ area, where CAP will patrol, will enable US CAP forces to place an AGM on the launch signature within 120 seconds after a launch signature is detected. The Syrians will literally have to push the button and bolt out of the telemetry hut away from the launch at a full sprint.

edit on 8-9-2013 by TheEthicalSkeptic because: (no reason given)

The Israelis struck the Yakhont storage depot because the US wanted them to. The US and Israel have planned the war from the beginning. The civil war was orchestrated by the United States the same way the revolution in Egypt was orchestrated, the same way the revolution in Libya was orchestrated, and the same way the failed revolution in Iran was orchestrated (protests against Ahmedinejad's reelection). Israel has taken out S300 missiles and Yakhonts for the United States. Some time has passed since these incidents. It's possible that only some or none of the intended targets were actually hit. If these weapons were actually destroyed enough time may have elapsed to replace these weapons which means we may see another Israeli strike.