Who Killed Kennedy?

The GUT

JohnnySasaki
I didn't ask btw. If you look closely, that's a quote from you, and it was a joke. CSM is a character from the X-Files who, in the show, killed JFK.

Just thought you might wanna know.

Do you have any hard evidence on Allen Dulles? From what I read he was anything but a Nazi sympathizer, but wikipedia isn't exactly known for its accuracy.

reply to post by JohnnySasaki


Allen Dulles,, now there is a name from the Past,,,didnt he have a brother?

reply to post by JohnnySasaki
I played a little fast and loose with that one, but not too much. His banking relationships, Project Paperclip, and his submission to Gen. Ghelen and Ghelen's spy org are my sources for that particular aspersion. The rest is pretty much history. Even on the outside chance he didn't do Kennedy, assasain by proxy is still valid as per his covert black ops crimes. But I'm pretty sure he has some of JFK'S blood on his withering hands, too. Don't you think so?

BobAthome
reply to post by JohnnySasaki

 

Allen Dulles,, now there is a name from the Past,,,didnt he have a brother?

Yep, John Foster Dulles...a globalist international banker traitor and one time Secretary of State. Bad, bad boys. Those two really effed this country up.

JohnnySasaki

The GUT

JohnnySasaki
I didn't ask btw. If you look closely, that's a quote from you, and it was a joke. CSM is a character from the X-Files who, in the show, killed JFK.

Just thought you might wanna know.

Do you have any hard evidence on Allen Dulles? From what I read he was anything but a Nazi sympathizer, but wikipedia isn't exactly known for its accuracy.

Just to add to what the Gut has posted, a few links. You can do your own verification, as there is no shortage of sites implicating the Bush family and the Dulles brothers to being covertly in bed with the Nazis.

www.commondreams.org...

On October 20, 1942, the U.S. government ordered the seizure of Nazi Germany's banking operations in New York City, which were under the direction of Prescott Bush. The government seized control of Union Banking Corporation under the Trading with the Enemy Act. The liquidation yielded a reported $750,000 apiece for Prescott Bush and George Herbert Walker. The book, The Splendid Blonde Beast: Money, Law and Genocide, goes into exhaustive detail on Bush-Harriman Nazi money laundering. More recently, Michael Kranish covers the same Bush-Nazi relationships in The Rise of the Bush Family Dynasty published in the Boston Globe. Loftus documents that "Prescott Bush knowingly served as a money launderer for the Nazis. Remember that Union Bank's books and accounts were frozen by the U.S. Alien Property Custodian in 1942 and not released back to the Bush family until 1951." Often ignored are the Bush family's post-World War II dealings with former Nazis. John Foster Dulles, who had worked with the Bush family in the Harriman Company in laundering money for Nazi Germany, was Dwight Eisenhower's Secretary of State. His brother Allen became CIA director.

Nice link here about what charmers the Dulles brothers were;

www.pej.org...

Sullivan and Cromwell was the most powerful Wall Street law firm of the 1930s. John Foster Dulles and Allen Dulles?the two brothers who guided the firm; the same two brothers who boycotted their own sister?s 1932 wedding because the groom was Jewish?served as the contacts for the company responsible for the gas in the Nazi gas chambers, I.G. Farben. During the pre-war period, the elder John Foster led off cables to his German clients with the salutation ?Heil Hitler,? and he blithely dismissed the Nazi threat in 1935 in a piece he wrote for the Atlantic Monthly. In 1939, he told the Economic Club of New York, ?We have to welcome and nurture the desire of the New Germany to find for her energies a new outlet.? ?Hitler?s attacks on the Jews and his growing propensity for territorial expansion seem to have left Dulles unmoved,? writes Robert Edward Herzstein. ?Twice a year, [Dulles] visited the Berlin office of the firm, located in the luxurious Esplanade Hotel.? But, it was little brother Allen who actually got to meet the German dictator, and eventually smoothed over the blatant Nazi ties of ITT?s Sosthenes Behn.

And here also;

www.thedailybell.com...

The Dulles brothers, like many of the Anglo-American power elites in New York, Washington and London, were closely involved with promoting and sometimes supporting the Nazi takeover of Germany – as a source of manufacturing and arms sales, banking profits and as a bulwark against the communist threat from the Soviet Union. Only when Hitler, the Nazi financial leaders, and the German central bank became independent of these interests and threatened Western monetary supremacy did real opposition begin.

Now in my mind, anyone who would support the Nazis to the level that Prescott Bush and the Dulles brothers did, would not be averse to altering the domestic situation in their own country using any means at their disposal.

First, I am absolutely not disagreeing with what else has been posted in this thread. In a recent lecture promoting his new book, Richard Belzer jokingly made the comment that, "the list would be a lot shorter if you asked me who didn't want to kill Kennedy."

That said, LBJ was a real piece of work. He had a psychopath's drive for control and power over others that began in his youth.

Source

Biographer Robert A. Caro, author of two volumes to date in the groundbreaking series *The Years of Lyndon Johnson* writes:

“Because Lyndon Johnson would have been only sixty-seven years old, when, in 1975, I began my research on his life, most of his contemporaries were still alive. This made it possible to find out what he was like while he was growing up from the best possible sources: those who grew up with him. And it also makes it possible to clear away . . . the misinformation that has surrounded the early life of Lyndon Johnson.

The extent of this misinformation, the reason it exists, and the importance of clearing it away, so that the character of our thirty-sixth President will become clear, became evident to me while researching his years at college. The articles and biographies which have dealt with these years have in general portrayed Johnson as a popular, even charismatic, campus figure. The oral histories of his classmates collected by the Lyndon Johnson library portray him in the same light. In the early stages of my research, I had no reason to think there was anything more to the story. Indeed, when one of the first of his classmates whom I interviewed, Henry Kyle, told me a very different story, I believed that because Kyle had been defeated by Johnson in a number of campus encounters, I was hearing only a prejudiced account by an embittered man, and did not even bother typing up my notes of the interview.

Then, however, I began to interview other classmates. . . . When I found them, I was told the old anecdotes that had become part of the Lyndon Johnson myth. But over and over again, the man or woman I was interviewing would tell me that these anecdotes were not the whole story.

When I asked for the rest of it, they wouldn’t tell it. A man named Vernon Whiteside could have told me, they said, but, they said, they had heard that Vernon Whiteside was dead.

One day, however, I phoned Horace Richards, a Johnson classmate who lived in Corpus Christi, to arrange to drive down from Austin to see him. Richards said that there was indeed a great deal more to the story of Lyndon Johnson at college than had been told, but that he wouldn’t tell me unless Vernon Whiteside would too. But Whiteside was dead, I said. “Hell, no,” Richards said. “He’s not dead. He was here visiting me just last week. . . ."

I traced Mr. Whiteside to a mobile home court in Highland Beach, Florida . . . flew there to see him, and from him heard for the first time many of the character-revealing episodes of Lyndon Johnson’s years at San Marcos at which the other classmates had hinted. And when I returned to these classmates, they confirmed Whiteside’s account; Richards himself added many details. And now they told additional stories, not at all like the ones they had told before . . . [a]nd the portrait of Lyndon Johnson at San Marcos that finally emerged was very different from the one previously sketched.

The experience was repeated again and again during the seven years spent on this book. Of the hundreds of persons interviewed, scores had never been interviewed before, and the information these persons have provided – in some cases even though they were quite worried about providing it– has helped form a portrait of Lyndon Johnson substantially different from all previous portraits” (Caro, The Years of Lyndon Johnson: The Path to Power, 769-70).

This passage demonstrates the power that Lyndon Baines Johnson wielded over people; even people who hadn’t seen him in fifty years; even people who knew nothing of him but his childhood and teen years — people who knew no secrets of state, no political ammunition, little more than gossip; people who continued to fear him and “his people” even after Lyndon Baines Johnson, in fact, was dead.

There was, in fact, a meeting with an informant under way as Kennedy was being assassinated was taking place. One of the Kennedy men was called away to the phone and got the news. He then forced himself to regain his composure and rejoined the meeting aware that, had he let on, any of what they went on to discover would have dried up instantly.

A decade after LBJ’s death, a friend of Estes, a federal marshal, talked Estes into coming forward with what he knew about Henry Marshall’s death. Then on August 9, 1984, following Billie Sol Estes’ grand jury testimony regarding Mac Wallace’s murder of Henry Marshall, Estes’ attorney, Douglas Caddy sent a letter to Stephen S. Trott, Assistant Attorney General, Criminal Division, of the US Department of Justice.

Lyndon’s scandalous wheeling and dealing from his Senate days were catching up with him even faster than the Billie Sol Estes affair, and it would bring the whole Democratic party down with it if the key players weren’t thrown overboard.

Estes and to a lesser degree Johnson were the primary benefactors of their doings, while everyone on Capitol Hill knew Bobby Baker, and every lawyer, lobbyist, and lawmaker wanted a piece of the action — and Bobby was LBJ’s boy. The dealings had been too many to keep quiet with a quick “Texas suicide.” LBJ wasn’t just looking at the end of his political career; he was looking at hard time.

The letter reads:
"Dear Mr. Trott:

My client, Mr. Estes, has authorized me to make this reply to your letter of May 29, 1984.

Mr. Estes was a member of a four-member group, headed by Lyndon Johnson, which committed criminal acts in Texas in the 1960s. The other two, besides Mr. Estes and LBJ, were [White House aide] Cliff Carter and Mac Wallace. Mr. Estes is willing to disclose his knowledge concerning the following criminal offenses:

1. Murders

1. The killing of Henry Marshall
2. The killing of George Krutilek
3. The killing of Ike Rogers and his secretary
4. The killing of Harold Orr
5. The killing of Coleman Wade
6. The killing of Josefa Johnson
7. The killing of John Kinser
8. The killing of President J. F. Kennedy

Mr. Estes is willing to testify that LBJ ordered these killings, and that he transmitted his orders through Cliff Carter to Mac Wallace, who executed the murders. In the cases of murders nos. 1-7, Mr. Estes’ knowledge of the precise details concerning the way the murders were executed stems from conversations he had shortly after each event with Cliff Carter and Mac Wallace.

In addition, a short time after Mr. Estes was released from prison in 1971, he met with Cliff Carter and they reminisced about what had occurred in the past, including the murders. During their conversation, Carter spoke of a list of 17 murders which had been committed, some of which Mr. Estes was unfamiliar with. A living witness was present at that meeting and should be willing to testify about it. He is Kyle Brown, recently of Houston and now living in Brady, Texas. . ."

Notice murder #6. Josefa was Johnson's sister!!!

Who Killed Kennedy?

If Obama came out on November 22, 2013 and said there was a conspiracy to kill JFK, it would over turn the Warren Commission report, and there would be a ragin' full-on revolution in the USA because the last 50 years of history would be proved to be total B*S*.

That will never happen.

SayonaraJupiter

Who Killed Kennedy?

If Obama came out on November 22, 2013 and said there was a conspiracy to kill JFK, it would over turn the Warren Commission report, and there would be a ragin' full-on revolution in the USA because the last 50 years of history would be proved to be total B*S*.

That will never happen.

We're in agreement, there. I stumbled upon the story of Roger Craig completely by accident. Talk about one of those "sit back in your chair" epiphanies!! The last few months one thing after another has popped up. There is plenty of evidence out there to get a pretty good grasp on what happened.

My impression is that the government believes the pigeonhole and ridicule tactic has successfully moved what was obviously a political/military coup into the realm of Nessie, UFOs & Bigfoot. Some things are just too silly to address. [sarcasm]

I could kick myself for not bookmarking where I read it but some French author made what I thought was a very profound point... Kennedy was a film murder, Oswald was a TV murder. You could watch LHO getting killed as you warmed your TV dinner up and he would still be getting killed when you tucked the kids in later that night. I think sometimes people forget that it was 12 or 13 years before the general public ever SAW the Zapruder film! Even then, you can only trust it up to a point because, while it may be nitpicking to some, there are minor inconsistencies between the film and the statements of witnesses that were within 50 feet of the car. Thank goodness for the news people that were able to capture reports within minutes.

Who Killed Kennedy?

Just a few other thoughts.

JFK felt he was safe because LBJ was with him, next to him, all the way from the Fort Worth Breakfast to the Dallas motorcade. It was his last bad judgement call.

The Kennedy's were not as good a poker players as Richard Nixon was. Nixon lost in 1960, for sure. But Nixon won on November 22, 1963. Nixon won another big hand on June 5, 1968 and another huge pot on July 18, 1969 at Chappaquiddick.

When we think about Who Killed Kennedy we must remember Nixon and we must also remember to never underestimate him.

SayonaraJupiter

Who Killed Kennedy?

Just a few other thoughts.

JFK felt he was safe because LBJ was with him, next to him, all the way from the Fort Worth Breakfast to the Dallas motorcade. It was his last bad judgement call.

The Kennedy's were not as good a poker players as Richard Nixon was. Nixon lost in 1960, for sure. But Nixon won on November 22, 1963. Nixon won another big hand on June 5, 1968 and another huge pot on July 18, 1969 at Chappaquiddick.

When we think about Who Killed Kennedy we must remember Nixon and we must also remember to never underestimate him.

Spot on... Notice the guest list mentioned.

Clint Murchison, HL Hunt, J Edgar Hoover Richard Nixon and Lyndon Johnson.

All in the same room on the eve of destiny. A majestic moment jotted down in many detectives note books. However, none of these guys will be pulling the triggers tomorrow... that job belongs to the operational team headed to Dealey Plaza, via the Bay of Pigs.

The military industrial complex had rightly predicted that a future president, in this case Kennedy, would surrender the principles of the constitution of the country by cooperating with communist regimes especially in space related matters. Our sworn enemies against freedom and democracy would become our friends.

And that's not good for business.

These men were seriously worried what Kennedy would do next to jeopardize American national security. Would he dismantle the nuclear arsenal and put the country at risk from a Soviet first strike?

It's impossible to know exactly what they talked about that night. Probably just a lot of guy talk. You know, football, Playboy magazines, scotch on the rocks, having a good old time, listen to some Bing Crosby records.

Murchison had to specifically invite all these men into his home, they did not invite themselves over. Am I on the right track here Cornshucker?

SayonaraJupiter
Murchison had to specifically invite all these men into his home, they did not invite themselves over. Am I on the right track here Cornshucker?

Sounds like you're pretty clear on the situation. Ironic that the politicians involved all eventually paid the piper in one way or another. I wonder about the money men. To me, it's particularly odious that the SBD was turned into a museum considering that it belonged to one of the conspirators... I hope he donated it, he sure as H*ll didn't need the money!

reply to post by CornShucker


Let's keep it going Cornshucker. Five men in a room.

Clint Murchison, HL Hunt, J Edgar Hoover Richard Nixon and Lyndon Johnson.

Nixon says he was in Dallas for some kind of Pepsi convention. Nixon is a Republican. He's the odd man out.

Also according to Fletcher Prouty there are no less than 4 different scenarios for Nixon's day in Dallas. Source www.prouty.org...

Meanwhile, back on the ranch... a little over a month after the assassination... LBJ is even wearing his favorite style of suit... a drab synthesis of military color and cut. He wears the Hollywood olive-beige version of third-world dictator costume.



Now back to Nixon. The Dallas News has just put up a new story about Nixon in Dallas. Check it out.
www.dallasnews.com...

reply to post by SayonaraJupiter


Thanks for a great post to start my day.

Extremely interesting, indeed. Having read "Best Evidence" cover to cover probably six times as well as Mark Lane's "Rush to Judgement", I had high expectations of Oliver Stone and was disappointed. I felt he made too much of some things and hedged in areas he shouldn't have.

I see the press is still wanting to spoon feed us the myth as much as possible...

From your link:

For some, Nixon’s November 1963 visit to Dallas is a log to feed the fires of conspiracy. In the 1995 biopic Nixon, Oliver Stone walked the razor’s edge between fiction and libel by placing the future president at a secret Nov. 21 meeting of Dallas millionaires and obliging call girls at the home of Larry Hagman’s character, Jack Jones, an amalgam of H.L. Hunt and Clint Murchison.

Who killed Kennedy? Oswald killed him.

Anyone reading this over about 60yrs old killed him. Our entire nation killed him. I'd be guilty too, if I hadn't still had another 10 years or so before even being conceived...but my parents can take their share of guilt too.

Everyone killed him because, in the end, everyone allowed it to happen and allowed it to be covered up. If any major segment of the Government or Public had the courage and conviction to say NO...it would be recorded for having happened and perhaps, just maybe, things weren't so entrenched by then as to have made a difference.

Now, the same can be said about collective responsibility for things which have happened since and with good points made, too. It's not the same thing though, because no ONE segment or ONE group can change anything at this stage...except their own longevity. Back then though? That was the defining moment when power SHIFTED. It hadn't been total up to that point.

So when people asked who killed Kennedy? Well, it was you and me. Every last one who was alive and simply did nothing in the aftermath. Guilty as charged.

The Party in Dallas before the Hit

Note on this link: It appears to be someone's blog, the blog only has one post in it from April of 2009, and the facts of details are not specifically footnoted, however, most of these details are well known, but scattered through out various conspiracy channels. With that caveat, here are a few more notes on the Party.

johnsonbushandnixonkilljohnfkennedy.blogspot.com...

The night before Kennedy was killed, a party was held, at the Dallas home of oil millionaire Clint Murchison, where there was a secret meeting of about 25 men that took place to discuss the assassination and the cover up of JFK the next day.

Also at the meeting was Earl Cabell the Mayor of Dallas, and the brother of General Charles Cabell who was the Deputy Director of the CIA who was fired along with Director Allen Dulles, by Kennedy over the Cuba invasion and the Bay of Pigs fiasco...

George Brown (of Brown and Root) was also at the meeting...

At this meeting was some of Kennedy's most powerful enemies Sid Richardson, R.L. Thornton former Dallas Mayor, Texas Governor John Connally, Cliff Carter Chairman of the Democratic committee, H.L Hunt a Texas oil billionaire

Also John J McCloy the CEO of Chase Manhattan Bank, Chairman of the Council on Foreign Relations; and co-founder of the CIA;

Also included at the meeting was Richard Nixon, FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover (33 degree Illuminati Freemason), Clyde Tolson the assistant Director of the FBI, Bill Decker (Dallas Sheriff), Clint Peoples (U.S. Marshall), Don Smith, Amon G. Carter owner of the Fort-Worth Star Telegram, B.R. Sheffield, George Owens, John Currington, Joe C. Yarbrough, W.O. Bankston, and Texas Governor John Connally.

George H. W. Bush and Richard Nixon joined Hoover that night in Dallas at the Murchison gathering on November 21, 1963 before Kennedy arrived the next day, according to alleged Kennedy co-conspirator and spotter Frank Sturgis.

Malcolm Wallace who was on LBJ's staff was also at the Murchison house that night.

Now THAT'S what I call a guest list!

Wrabbit2000
Who killed Kennedy? Oswald killed him.

Anyone reading this over about 60yrs old killed him. Our entire nation killed him. I'd be guilty too, if I hadn't still had another 10 years or so before even being conceived...but my parents can take their share of guilt too.

Everyone killed him because, in the end, everyone allowed it to happen and allowed it to be covered up. If any major segment of the Government or Public had the courage and conviction to say NO...it would be recorded for having happened and perhaps, just maybe, things weren't so entrenched by then as to have made a difference.

Still trying to come up with the appropriate response to your post...

I was in junior high, but your rule of thumb includes me in your indictment of the American people. What was it you think anyone could have done? Since then anyone trying to get the word out has been marginalized as a crackpot worthy of the same contempt and scorn as anyone believing in ghosts, UFOs, Bigfoot or the Loch Ness Monster.

You might want to read my reply to Thornblod earlier in this thread. There still were men like Roger Craig, yet. There should have been more. But to say the entire country was at fault. I can only see it in terms of what I've said earlier about JFK and Roger Craig meaning every word of their oath of office. JFK had already done what was in his power to stop some of things that we, as a nation, had wanted stopped. He planned to do more.

I don't think who is the right question to start with.

Start with the question "WHY did someone kill Kennedy." Establish the motive (of which there are many), and then seek your killer.

There are certain motives that point to certain individuals or groups:

Kennedy wanted to get out of Vietnam. Vietnam represented a boon for defense contractors, chemical companies, and lasting residuals for companies whose markets would open as a result from victory in the region. In a period of economic downturn, the Vietnam war was likely seen by many in the business world as very important to them.

Kennedy wanted to regulate, if not eliminate the Federal Reserve and central banking paradigms. Other presidents who wanted to end the Fed were Abraham Lincoln, who was assassinated, and Andrew Jackson, whose assassination was attempted twice.

Kennedy issued a speech which denounced secret societies and deemed them un-American.

Kennedy had extra-marital affair(s), which, in this time, may not be seen as a cause for violence, but in the 60s, many conservatives saw civil rights movements, gender equality movements, and general civil disobedience from the 'hippies' as a breakdown of American society and values. Marriage was still sacred, and infidelity was still an abomination to most American minds.

That's quite a few motives, and there may be more, but I think these ones are the ones to examine when asking the question "Who Killed Kennedy."

If I had to choose a 'who' for 'who killed Kennedy', it would have to be Lyndon Baines Johnson.

Did he pull the trigger? No. Did he have foreknowledge? Yes. Did he allow it to happen? Yes.

I'd even go so far as to say he gave the order.

Nice to see the thread is still around I have came across an article y'all would find interesting:White House is asked about secret JFK files. I'll post some more links later on.