Islam's Incorruptible Qur'an Is Corrupt

page: 33
109
<< 30  31  32    34  35  36 >>

log in

join

posted on Sep, 10 2013 @ 01:55 PM
link   
reply to post by Sahabi
 


If you had watched the video, you wouldn't have posted the reply you did.
YES, there are 7 ahruf that the Prophet taught and the 10 Qiraat got developed later.
How about letting go the styles of recitation(qiraats) and concentrate on ahruf, i would love to learn what you know about them and also how you reach the conclusion to claim that they all are lost!!
A few basics questions for the benefit of your target audience.
What exactly is ahruf(plural) or harf(singular)?
What exactly is different between one mode and other?
Is there a difference in every word of every verse? Or just a few synonymous words difference or/and pronounciation and spelling differences?
What about the hadiths that say that this was asked by the Prophet for the ease of his Ummah(muslim community) as they had varied dialects/pronounciations and used different synonymous words depending on the dialects/area/tribe?




posted on Sep, 10 2013 @ 03:03 PM
link   
reply to post by logical7
 



When you first mentioned the "7 Qira'at" earlier in the thread, you actually claimed that they were the same thing as the "7 Ahruf". Now you are beginning to differentiate the two. I applaud you brother for denying ignorance!

I do not know what you are asking of me, because we have already discussed these points in full. Please be a bit more specific, because I do not wish to start the entire discussion over again. What exactly is your point regarding the "7 Ahruf" approved of by Muhammad, versus today's 20+ Qira'at? First you claimed they were the same thing, now you realize they are different concepts. What's your point now?


edit on 9/10/13 by Sahabi because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 10 2013 @ 03:11 PM
link   
reply to post by logical7
 



What about the hadiths that say that this was asked by the Prophet for the ease of his Ummah(muslim community) as they had varied dialects/pronounciations and used different synonymous words depending on the dialects/area/tribe?


You are wrong. Muhammad's "7 Ahruf" were not difference in dialect.

In this hadith, (Sahih al-Bukhari 6.514), there is an argument about recitation between Umar ibn al-Khattab and Hisham bin Hakim. This Hadith is very important because it proves a very important aspect about "Ahruf",..... Umar and Hisham were both Meccans and both belonged to the tribe of Quraysh. This proves that "Ahruf" is not a difference of dialect or region because they spoke the same dialect and were from the same region!


Dialectic differences in recitation is a problem encountered during Uthman's rule, not during Muhammad's time. By authorizing one single harf of Qur'an in order to quell language differences, Uthman inadvertently killed Muhammad's 7-Ahruf. Then later, the varying Qira'at arose regarding the Zaid/Uthman Qur'an.

edit on 9/10/13 by Sahabi because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 10 2013 @ 03:20 PM
link   
I think Muhammad was just smart enough to understand how gullible and easily fooled the people of the mid east would be, and he was right, because they are still philosophically retarded to this day, and have never made any progress in thousands of years. They are still killing each other over there in a large fashion and they think God condones their behavior.. The Qur'an is nothing but toilet paper.



posted on Sep, 10 2013 @ 03:35 PM
link   

Sahabi
Regarding 7 Ahruf

I've already spent several posts and replies earlier in this thread debunking the false claim that today's "7 Qira'at" are the same as Muhammad's "7 Ahruf".

I do not enjoy repeating myself or having the same debate over-and-over due to my opponents inability to acknowledge valid points,.... so for simplicity's sake,.....

• If Muhammad's "7 Ahruf" are the same as today's "7 Qira'at", then explain why there are actually MORE than 7 Qira'at.

There are actually 10 accepted Qira'at,... with each Qira'at containing two separate transmitters. This means there are 20 Qira'at. There are also several more Qira'at that are rejected by the majority.

"7 Ahruf" that Muhammad approved of ARE NOT the "7 Qira'at (20+ Qira'at)" of today.

 

 


edit on 9/9/13 by Sahabi because: (no reason given)

as the seven ahruf is mentioned here. sorry my statements may ...........
as I know Koran was sent once gradually. and prophet of Islam spoke it once when it was revealed to him. do you mean we have many Korans ? but Koran was sent once. from mouth of prophet of Islam so we can not have many Korans. unless the Qiraats are something independent of Koran, for example it is because of personal mistake or because of different dialects.
so we should seek the true Koran and it should be proved to us that it is the same Koran as what prophet of Islam said.
I have heard that this widespread Koran which is according to the Qiraat of Hafs is strongly near to the mutawatir Koran.
still I do not know how they find the Tawatir of a Qiraat. I should figure it out and share.
Koran itself speaks of one Koran not many Korans.
but Koran should be one. we can not have many Korans. Koran itself says this.
edit on 10-9-2013 by maes2 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 10 2013 @ 03:45 PM
link   

alienreality
I think Muhammad was just smart enough to understand how gullible and easily fooled the people of the mid east would be, and he was right, because they are still philosophically retarded to this day, and have never made any progress in thousands of years. They are still killing each other over there in a large fashion and they think God condones their behavior.. The Qur'an is nothing but toilet paper.

it is good that we do not speak about what we are not aware of by insulting and ..........
our body is nothing but some cells and some ions and minerals and ...... but it is respectful beca'use it has a soul. our body is full of living things and all of them are working for one thing. that is ourselves.



posted on Sep, 10 2013 @ 04:21 PM
link   

the2ofusr1
reply to post by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
 
I think if you look into the dead sea scrolls and compare them to todays bible you may be surprised ...We have todays version transmitted over 2000 years so we have a good sample and the dead sea scrolls ...peace


I have. The dead sea scrolls are a very good example. Many of them are composed of material not found in the bible. Not only that, they are entirely Old Testament era. Nothing about the New Testament, which is what Christianity was based on. They also contained only bits and pieces of the Old Testament. In other words, much of the Old testament wasn't even present. Only parts of it.

Not to mention the Dead Sea Scrolls appear to be a broad collections of works by numerous different sects and were not written by the Essene. Many of which are unknown in today's Bible.

The Bible was a pick and choose project. Not incorruptible.



posted on Sep, 10 2013 @ 04:31 PM
link   
reply to post by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
 
Hi and thanks for your reply ..I was under the impression that they found one scroll that was a complete book of Isaiah ...is that not true ? If you have studied them then can you give me a source thanks



posted on Sep, 10 2013 @ 06:36 PM
link   
Debating for authenticity of the tradition,

the 5 Elements:

The first element of Islam is God. The Muslim is advised to seek the face of God, and forbidden from erecting an idol to God. When the Book begins, Genesis Chapter 32, God is encountered by Jacob through the sun, he sees God yet lives, leaving the Muslim to wonder whether it is possible to interrogate God.

The foundational Hadith of Sufism, Gabriel asks Muhammad if he has seen God: "the Hadith of Gabriel," page 186 of my Hadith: Muhammad's Legacy in the Medieval and Modern World by Jonathan AC Brown. Mysticism within Christianity means approaching the face of God, that which is contemplated.

God is all knowing and all knowledge, all powerful and all energy, all places and omnipresent. One face of God suggests simultaneous direct perception of past present and future concerning every possible reality capable of transpiring within infinite space or nothingness. Another that at the center of all places energy and information unconditionally loving beings selflessly serve and interact with a whole they are but functions of, themselves composing the one heart of God. A sun and a son of an impersonal father.

The second element of Islam, the angels, are unconditionally loving beings which prophecy guard the fate of the tradition and people and war game of the Book. They reside in outer space, the heavens, storing the salvation of the human soul in terms of the amount of love the just man and woman deserve.

The third element of Islam is the revealed books, the authentic Old and New Testament and the Koran. Delivered by the angels to

The fourth element, God's legislators on the earth. Humans yet to see God and live the way Jacob saw God when he received the name Israel. EL signifies angelic status in Hebrew, "of God" or "of God's military." People like Muhammad in the cave are the deliverers of the text.

The fifth element is the climax of Israel's war game, the Last Day: Judgement Day, when the peoples go to heaven or hell and global immortality transpires.

In Chapter 28 of Genesis, Jacob takes on Isaac's blessing the sun sets and he establishes the pillar of the temple of the house of God and the hierarchy of the angels in Bethel from Luz: bet hell from lose. In Chapter 32 of Genesis, when Jacob sees God yet lives at sun rise, he calls the place peniel. As the sun rises above his head, he passes the path of the peniel gland which brings about bet hel from luz.

Surah 78 of the Koran, the line at the top of the seven is crossed by accessories to the Mark. The surah opens discussing the sex act between man and woman, 18 is Muslim Law Internationally because the trumpet sounds to invade in Verse 18. Verse 24 is a poison to age complexity Muslims, 34 a full cup to those that stick to their own age or above, and on 39, 999, the day of sure reality, wine as blood is consumed to finalize Bet Hel from Luz and overturn the Mark of the Beast 666. The poison of surity.

(the Surah doesn't jailbreak anyone)

Bethel from Luz on Peniel is where Israel encountered God yet lived, the event which inspired him to write the Book: the Book Is real if you pull the A behind the E, and God isRael. There is a heart at the impersonal father's center. Revelation Chapter 14 Verse 20, on 420, wine as blood is consumed, the wrath of God results, and the good deeds of the Lamb and of Moses are finalized.



posted on Sep, 10 2013 @ 07:04 PM
link   
Debating For the Authenticity of the Book, the 5 Pillars:

The five pillars constitute the essence of Muslim discipline: that which makes the military of global Islam strong.

The first pillar is to bear witness: Allah is the Arabic word for the one God, and Muhammad delivered an authentic extension of the Book of the nature of an actual prophecy. "There is no God but Allah, and Muhammad is his prophet." There is only one God because only one being is worthy of worship and devotion.

The second pillar of Islam is prayer five times a day. Geburah is the fifth sphere on the Kabbalistic Tree of Life, the Muslims pray five times a day to remind them they are constantly at war until the last day.

The third pillar of Islam is charitable donation, a minimum of one-fortieth of one's wealth, because to be a Muslim means working for the heart of God, which entails serving others.

The fourth pillar is to fast on Ramadan, the 9th month on the Muslim calendar. The Muslim fasts during the hours of the sun. Is lam? Sue Ra. Ramsees was the father of the historic Pharaoh Seti, if Ram sees... If the Ram Abraham killed in place of Isaac could prophecy, Ra Set.

Fast delivery to Ram a don. The 9th month is Chapter 9 of Revelation and Sura 9 of the Koran.

In Chapter 9 of Revelation, a low key is protected by locus that are instructed by the Book to harm not the plants of the earth (locus usually harm plants, these are many that inhibit the stall from destroying all crops) nor those with the seal of God upon their foreheads: unconditionally loving accessories to the Mark of the Beast unconditionally secreting peniel gland because an open heart permanently opens the third eye.

Revelation Chapter 9 Verse 11, low key is Abaddon in Hebrew - framed for being a Jew by 9/11 or P11 (turn the 9 around) for being a bad don in name, sounds that way. He is Apollyon in Greek - Ram a dan.

Apollo the Lion (king, not god) defeated the serpent to rule the sun according to Greek Myth. Apple Lion, a stave or Cain fell to deliver the fuit of eternal life to all humanity. NApollyon, possessed by the heart of God: Lamech / Va Mech's tactics are effective.

In Genesis Chapter 32 Jacob defeats himself the instant the sun rises and sees God yet lives, God calls him Ra / is Ra el because he meets God through the sun. God isreal, pull back the e, if for no other reason that because Jacob discovered unconditional love at the center of the universe. (God's father?)

The Lamb of God is the Lion of Judah, Juda's Iscariot carry it I capital = H if thrown forward and the s thrown into the end of the word, Chariots betrayed Christ because Israel was their recognized king (and Solomon, Christ's oldest brother). Worthy is the Lamb, that was slain, to win honor and wealth, in Chapter 5 of Revelation.

Christ's lineage is that of Joseph, son of Jacob - the other name of Israel, despite that his mother was a virgin. Joseph in Genesis 37 was given the coat of many colors, the sun provides us the ability to perceive them. He was put in charge of all of Egypt in those days with the exception of the throne by Pharaoh. He was the most beloved son of Ra/ Israel because the son of his old age. He dreamed when he was 17 the sun would bow to his authority, and is called the Crowned and Conquering King of Revelation. The instant he died, Moses was born, and when the Exodus began, Pharaoh said, "Go, and bless me also."

Locus torture those who harm a low key for five months in Chapter 9 of Revelation, in Surah 9 of the Koran pagan aggressors are given until the fourth month (Chesed, the Sphere of Mercy on the Tree of Life) to cease attacking or they are killed on the day of Honein by unconditionally loving Gabriel: low key is why honeir is in humanity (negligence is partial disregard out of pride or desire on the eye for an eye scales, malice total, and they did not exist), prior to Israel / `Rabi there was just instinctive loyalty and immortality. Even after honein has come and gone, the aggressors are encouraged to seek recompense.

According to Ragnarok Prophecy, Loki tricks viking Honeir with mistletoe: the love of Christ at Christmas. It kills Balder the Beautiful, the beautiful boulder of paganism. Bragi is the viking god of poetry because those who claim to be deities have too much pride, the children of Freya (free ya) and Frey (free already) are Od and Gerda because viking was an odd or esoteric muslim path to (rearrange the letters) dear God. Viking are called the Aesir: a sire of aries, arise.

In a sense angels compose and guard dear God.

The fifth element of Islam is to approach Mecca (Maker) one time, no consideration given as to expense. No self reflection, or selfish reflection. The Muslim is supposed to lose himself to God, to become selfless, an angel recruited as was Israel when the Bible began.



posted on Sep, 10 2013 @ 07:22 PM
link   
reply to post by maes2
 


May Peace be upon you maes2.


do you mean we have many Korans ?

Here are the historic, chronologic points regarding this question:


• Muhammad transmitted the Qur'an verbally and incrementally during a 23-year period of time. Because of the ever-changing political landscape and environment, Islam changed as it grew, according to the concept known as "Abrogation". [1]


• Disciples/Companions (sahaba) of Muhammad differed in their recitation of the Qur'an and approached Muhammad about the disagreements. Muhammad then stated that the 'specific' variations (Ahruf) that they presented were all correct, even though slightly different. Muhammad then proclaimed that there were "7 Ahruf" (acceptable variations). [2], [3]


• Muhammad's third successor, Uthman, encountered language and dialect arguments amongst his subjects regarding the Qur'an. In order to stop the spread of unapproved variations, Uthman ordered there to be one single version compiled of the Qur'an according to the the Quraysh dialect. By stamping out unapproved language and dialect variations, Uthman actually also stamped out Muhammad's 7 approved Ahruf variations. [4]


• Uthman's Qur'an, which was compiled by Zaid ibn Thabit, met dissent and conflict from two of Muhammad's highest praised reciters: Abdullah ibn Mas'ud and Ubay ibn Ka'b. [5], [6], [7]


• Known verses were left out of the Zaid/Uthman Qur'an, and were justified as "Abrogation".

• Naskh al-hukm wa'l-tilawa (Words Removed, Ruling Abandoned): The verse and ruling are removed and annihilated from the Qur’an and Islam altogether.

• Naskh al-tilawa duna al-hukm (Words Removed, Ruling Stay): The verse is removed from the Qur’an, but it’s ruling is still followed.

[8], [9]


• According to the Zaid/Uthman version of the Qur'an, general consensus began to form regarding its proper recitation. The variations of the recitation of the Zaid/Uthman Qur'an are now known as "Qira'at". There are 20 approved variant transmissions of Qira'at (recitation) of the Zaid/Uthman Qur'an, and many more that are not approved by majority. [10]


• Uthman ordered all Qur'ans to be burnt except his authorized version. None of Uthman's original Qur'ans are known to exist, only hand-written copies of his originals and subsequent copies of those copies have survived. We only have partial fragments and incomplete compilations, and NONE of them are identical to today's Qur'an. [11], [12]

 


 



Koran itself speaks of one Koran not many Korans.
but Koran should be one. we can not have many Korans. Koran itself says this.


One singular and pure transmission of the Qur'an from Muhammad to today does not exist. That is the purpose of this thread, to spread the knowledge far and wide.



posted on Sep, 10 2013 @ 07:27 PM
link   
(Disclaimer - slight digression which explains the four month / five month contrast of my last post, and it may induce least "fanaticism" to briefly attempt to build a Muslim jyhad into a thread which debunks the Koran)

The Viking Berserkers are traditionally possessed by indefusible aggressive pride, possessed by Aesir deities, or possessed by Thor. The Berserkers of Loki are possessed by God alone.

Make the Great Pilgrimage to Mecca / Maker. To approach God is the point of the 5th pillar, and my 5 month Thor's Hammer Initiation, as well as wrestling from boastful pagan tyrants the ability to defy the All Merciful will of Allah Him.

The first month of Thor's Hammer, the jyhadist studies the nooks and crannies, instabilities and vices, of his or her individual psyche in an attempt to correct them. The Muslim releases trauma as a daily 30 minute effort of focus, practices denial of pleasure adopting a simple healthy diet free of intoxicants for the entire 5 Month time period to suppliment Pillars 4 and 5, fasting and approaching maker. Daily psychological profiling, self analysis, is painstakingly performed with pen and paper.

The second month, the jyhadist begins to research tactic and ethic of war.

Pleasure stolen - p, Free will inhibited - i, Suffering induced - s, Pleasure contributed - d, Free will enhanced - f, Suffering absolved - z. Culpability: negliegence is inducing at partial retention, disregarding responsibility to calculate. Malice is pride and desire baiting total disregard on the eye for an eye scales.

Only selfishness can be deterred on the eye for an eye scales by reward and consequence: the angels measure & record that which pride and desire contributes negatively as real quantity negative culpability against that which selfless or selfish autonomy contributes by intent to help other people.

Time to decide is freedom to thoroughly process the data, as against self defensive presidence of immediacy. Small data of simple component minimizes probability of X-Factor (unguessed) data, thorough analysis such as by scientific method minimizes because the possibe refuting data is searched for. List all visible or conceivable relevant variables and quantify degree of separation and direct experience, total simultaneous retention of all relevant variables. Room to erect a false idol (the Biblical sin since the Exodus) consists of distance between one's self and direct present minded experience of the truth or untruth of the question posed by visible or invisible abstraction.

For 30 minutes a day for 30 days, study how to establish God's will concerning one's right conduct: the eye for an eye presidence. For an additional 30 minutes, study or write about the science, philosophy, and history of warfare.

The third month, for 30 minutes a day, punch a bag or a couch or a pillow stacked against a hard surface. Identify success losing temporary control to agression, play angry music, then the instant the thirty minutes has expired sit still for 30 minutes attempting to release aggression and pride, meditate upon God Christ and the angelic host. Attempt to take in a share of God's unconditionally loving spiritual presence.

Revelation 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.

The heart before conditioning, all emotions released into the heart's expanse.

On the fourth month (Surah 9 - the infidel's reprieve if low key is attacked), beginning with exceedingly thin boards of wood and very gradually working up to thicker pieces, identify success channeling excitement and precision in releasing the exact quantity of energy necessary to break the block of wood, withdraw the instant it is broken. Do not permit aggression to enter one's mind, breathe deeply.

For 30 minutes to follow 30 minutes of calmly breaking blocks of wood, meditate on increasing and decreasing emotions such as pride sorrow humour and love. Write down the names of diverse personality type fictional characters and their most dramatic lines, and recite while attempting to move into and out of the character's emotion.

On the fifth month, meditate for one hour a day for 29 days on losing pride and all emotions except love, attempting to enter the impersonal heart of God. On Day 30, consume wine as blood, the energy of the heart, and permanently awaken the peniel gland. Do not leave a still posture until after the wine has peaked.



posted on Sep, 10 2013 @ 07:37 PM
link   
Conclusion Post.

The Book of Genesis, Chapter 32, tells the story of how humanity encountered God. The Exodus begins the moral purification of a people apart from the corrupt example of pre-moral civilization. The Ten Commandments were written in stone because prior to the evolution of the printing press, the Old Testament transcribes the history of the Jewish people through many languages: differentiate between their history and what angels delivered.

The New Testament tells of the story of the maturity of Israel's first born son. Genesis Chapter 37, Joseph dreams when he is 17 the sun would bow to him. He is the most beloved son of Israel because the son of his old age (Ra's first born). The Coat of Many Colors signifies that he is the heir of the sun because the sun gives us the ability to perceive them. He is put in charge of all of Egypt in those days with the exception of the throne by Pharaoh, the instant he dies Moses is born - whom Pharaoh tells to go, and to bless him also.

Isaiah 7:14 states the virgin will conceive Immanuel ("God with us" in name), Isaiah 7:15 states he will be old enough to eat curds and honey before he chooses the right over the wrong. Honey means Tiphareth, the Golden Sphere of Unconditional Love on the Tree of Life. Christ's mother is a virgin, yet his line is that of Joseph, son of Jacob, the other name of Israel: the heart of God artificially impregnating the virgin Mary.

The New Testament is Israel's first born son's maturity as the Crowned and Conquering King of the Jewish people, the Book of Revelation is steep enough with esoteric symbolism to call the people of the Book to dig deeper where the spiritual language is far easier to decipher.

The Koran is 500 pages of unconditionally loving Gabriel's simplification of the tradition to complete the Book in one language directly from an angel after the printing press.



posted on Sep, 10 2013 @ 07:55 PM
link   
reply to post by the2ofusr1
 


Yes, the Book of Isaiah was found, the most intact of the scrolls. However:


The version of the text is generally in agreement with the Masoretic or traditional version codified in medieval codices, such as the Aleppo Codex, but it contains many variant readings, alternative spellings, scribal errors, and corrections.


It is generally similar to what we know now, but not completely. There are differences.

Not to mention this copy was dated about a hundred years before Christ. The events of Isaiah supposedly happened long before that. Like, 600 years prior. We do not have that original text.

Plus, the book of Isaiah was believed to have been written by two completely different people.

Link



posted on Sep, 11 2013 @ 05:46 AM
link   

Sahabi
reply to post by logical7
 



When you first mentioned the "7 Qira'at" earlier in the thread, you actually claimed that they were the same thing as the "7 Ahruf". Now you are beginning to differentiate the two. I applaud you brother for denying ignorance!

I do not know what you are asking of me, because we have already discussed these points in full. Please be a bit more specific, because I do not wish to start the entire discussion over again. What exactly is your point regarding the "7 Ahruf" approved of by Muhammad, versus today's 20+ Qira'at? First you claimed they were the same thing, now you realize they are different concepts. What's your point now?


edit on 9/10/13 by Sahabi because: (no reason given)

i think you did not read my replies to you at the very start of this thread, i clearly remember that i told you that i know the difference between ahruf and qiraat. so trying to school me on it is a very weak attempt and a strawman argument to win a point and deflect addressing my real questions, i however would give you the benefit of doubt that you never saw my reply as you had too many to deal with. Now how about you answer the questions i asked? please tell us what exactly are ahruf...?
you seem to skip fast to conclude that the seven ahruf are lost.. could you step back and explain..
starting by explaining what these ahruf are would be a good idea..

yes the hadith you mention is a good way to discuss. Surah Furqan, two companions of the same tribe(same dialect) have a slight variation, so if it was not dialect, then what was it? Umar r.a. did recognize that it was Surah Furqan right? he objected to some variation.. so what was it??

there are enough hadiths that clear that there were 7 variations in some words and that all are correct as they give the same teaching. so if you claim that all ahruf are lost, then you are claiming that the Uthmani Quran does not have one of those acceptable variation.

that seems a bold claim as the verses that were compiled to make the whole copy by Zaid r.a. at the request of Abu Bakr r.a. were actually all written in the presence of the Prophet and seen by two witnesses. so each word was approved by the Prophet. Uthman r.a. later only standardized the pronunciation/dialect to Qureshi dialect and you, yourself have enlightened us that dialect is not the same as ahruf. so Uthman couldnt alter or destroy the ahruf, unless you eat your own words and now want to say that using a certain dialect ruins the ahruf, implying that ahruf were dialectal variations.

So take your pick and we proceed a step forward towards refuting your claims...
edit on 11-9-2013 by logical7 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 11 2013 @ 07:57 AM
link   

dragonridr
reply to post by logical7
 


Yes i watched the video and in it he admits there were significant differences. Which would mean that these 7 versions of the Koran cant be directly from god if we allow for interpretation depending on tribe or dialect. So which is it is the Koran an interpretation of gods message or is it the actually words given to the profit Mohammad from god himself? As i stated you cant have it both ways so which is it?

you then seem to have selective hearing because in the video he said there were some differences in words but no difference in meaning/message and mostly it was either a synonymous word or a different spelling etc.

Qur'an is the Verbatim Speech of God. Tell me if God has sent the Torah in Hebrew, Jesus pbuh delivered his Gospel in Aramaic and these messages/revelations are all coming from God, so if God can send it in different languages then why not seven modes of the same language? The synonymous words just makes it easier to understand for a specific tribe and also give deeper understanding of the verse where a variation was used.
And how do you decide parameters to Judge what is and what is not God's words?
The whole point of revelation is to benefit and guide people, right?
If Qur'an has a verse where a specific word is used and you belong to a tribe where you don't know that word then how would you understand the verse unless you are told a synonymous word that you are aware of?
So that was a mercy from God to make it easy for people and Prophet Muhammad pbuh requested that from God and got it, as i have mentioned in a hadith before.
In the last year the Qur'an was reviewed by Jibrael in just ONE way twice and the Qur'an available now is that ONE. The variations that were allowed for the benefit of people, so that they may understand easily and better are known for academic purposes and recorded in various scholarly works.
So you tell me what is it that you are actually debating?
If you want to say that Muhammad pbuh is not a prophet then you are wasting time in debating the topic because the topic is that Qur'an is the same as Muhammad pbuh taught and the same as God sent it, if he taught some of its verses in few ways for the sake of people then it still valid.



posted on Sep, 11 2013 @ 07:57 AM
link   
edit on 11-9-2013 by logical7 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 11 2013 @ 12:09 PM
link   
2,500 years ago, Buddhism was founded. 2,400 years ago, Sun Tzu's "the Art of War" was released. 500 years before Christ Sue Sun, 500 years after Christ Sue Ra (the Koran's Chapters).

2,500 years ago Buddhism was founded, after 2,500 years the Maitreya Buddha prophecy comes true. He inherits the throne from Sakyamuni in nearly all versions of the myth, who's Ray (Ra / IsRaEl at daybreak's image?) confused him according to page 60 (Tiphareth the Sun on the Tree of Life, 6 in 0) of my Maitreya: the Future Buddha edited by Alan Sponberg and Helen Hardacre.

Even Buddhism can be considered a Muslim jyhad and used to authenticate the Koranic tradition. Silence and subtlety is neither a lie nor an attempt to deceive, Buddhism is considered the empty way because it just encourages the accident of enlightenment, whereas the Book of Genesis directly mentions how the light itself was encountered. Buddhism is considered the least religious religion, technique rather than totem of devotion.

Hinduism - reincarnation within caste based loyalty to a tradition of rank immortals. Next largest to Christianity, Judaism, and Islam - then Buddhism, is Hinduism: considered older than Judaism, the oldest religion in the world. Because of the last verse of Chapter 4 of Genesis: After Seth (Set, I if I'm the only one) and Enosh began men to worship God.



posted on Sep, 11 2013 @ 06:59 PM
link   
reply to post by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
 
"It is generally similar to what we know now, but not completely."

I am slightly confused by your statement above .
Do you mean that it does not say the same thing or that it does not me"It is generally similar to what we know now, but not completely."

I am aware of the charge that the book was written by 2 different authors ..But as far ad debating it ,it seems that the debate is between a group that does not want to look at the bible to get the answer ...Jesus himself cleared up the matter Himself ...But I would imagine that the ones saying there were 2 authors wouldn't agree with Jesus anyway ...They could loose their tenure at some big university ..



posted on Sep, 11 2013 @ 09:20 PM
link   
reply to post by Phoenix267
 


Adding more information would only reveal the parlay of semantics (i.e. tomatoe, tomotoe). Nothing worse than a convert prejudiced by bitter disillusionment.
edit on 11-9-2013 by g2v12 because: (no reason given)





new topics
top topics
 
109
<< 30  31  32    34  35  36 >>

log in

join