Rowan Williams tells 'persecuted' western Christians to grow up

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
reply to post by Nephalim

 

No - because the laws of the land "force" people how to behave - and stuff like homosexuality is something they shouldn't have anything to do with but all the Xians are up in arms about it.

Christians are up in arms with anything that is an abomination in the eyes of God.
Even if a male dresses up as a female is an abomination in God's eyes

First of all, it's amusing that you would use a quote from the Archbishop of Canterbury, who oversees the Church of England (essentially church royalty) to dis the "religious right." I think Rowan Williams needs to get off his high horse and keep his judgmental insults about other people's suffering to himself.

No - because the laws of the land "force" people how to behave - and stuff like homosexuality is something they shouldn't have anything to do with but all the Xians are up in arms about it.

For your information, ALL Christians are NOT up in arms about it.

The "religious right" whining about how abortion or homosexual law reform is "oppressing" them is just pathetic.

Are you not the one who started whining here? Honestly, I don't want my money that I am forced to give the government to be put toward funding abortions. And as a woman, I think having an abortion after five months (which "women advocates" were all up in arms trying to protect) is nothing short of barbaric. Deal with it, Gaul.

reply to post by TruthLover557


For your information it is the "royal" all :p

And thank you for again highlighting the best/worst of whinerstianity!

Originally posted by Angelic Resurrection

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
reply to post by Nephalim

 

No - because the laws of the land "force" people how to behave - and stuff like homosexuality is something they shouldn't have anything to do with but all the Xians are up in arms about it.

Christians are up in arms with anything that is an abomination in the eyes of God.
Even if a male dresses up as a female is an abomination in God's eyes

But it seems they have little problem with pork and bacon, consuming lobster/shrimp/crab, or wearing clothing made from different fabrics.

Why do you think that is??

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


It has been my pleasure.

They are hypocrites - "the govt (or anyone else) better not try to stop ME from doing what I want......but other people shouldn't be allowed to do what they want"!

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


Much the same as gays saying that we should accept their agenda.

How moronic that you don't realize that you are doing the same damn thing. Telling people that they should see things your way. Hypocrite much?

edit to add: The food items that you mentioned are dealing with the jews you might want to get your religions straight before you persecute Christians, but I'm sure that the persecution is all that really matters to you.

Originally posted by Nephalim
Yea "former archbishop" ok.

Why the sudden attack on christians alone? There are people in the world who would not step on a bug, they respect life that much. Where is your mockery for them?

That's me, although I am not religious.
Sometimes on a rainy day I will pick up a worm or two off the sidewalk and put it in a better spot.
Weird?
I respect life, there may be no 'life after' (excluding mosquitos, blackflies and horseflies; well, they can die.)
So if people say that you need religion to be moral and kind or whatever, they should be persecuted, I am real and don't use religion to guide me on the path of what is right.
I will also not rip you off, I guess a career in used cars is not an option.

I don't need to fear to be good, I am real.... for real.
Don't persecute me for not being religious!

Don't bug me and I will not persecute you.

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul

no-one is forcing them to have abortions or into gay marriage.

no one is forcing them t change THEIR beliefs or practices.

Christian health workers (nurses, doctors) are forced by discrimination laws to perform abortions or need to look for employment elsewhere, even in a big hospital where abortions are not a common procedure.

Christian innkeepers are forced to rent their rooms to unmarried and gay couples.

Christians are being constrained to changing the traditional "merry Christmas" to "happy holidays".

Christians in "free" countries are being forced to remove their symbols from their workplace cubicles, not even being allowed to have cards and dust collectors with bible verses on them.

"no one is forcing them to change THEIR beliefs"???? Maybe, but they are being forced to not voice them. So you can believe what you want just don't say it huh? Just like the LBGT agenda pushers?

For example...

reply to post by Cinrad


Just like how atheists can't post the 'un-word' all over their work environment.
People should realise that some people don't like being bombarded by someones belief in a common area, that's what church is for.
Put your bible inspired stationary on the cork board in there.

I am a Christian, and I completely agree with Rowan Williams on this. Persecution has no soft end. There is either terrible persecution, Christians stoned in the streets, butchered by packs of slavering atheists, homosexuals, and persons of other faiths, or there is not.

I have been persecuted in my life, not over matters of faith, but over being simply somewhat unique when I was young. I am discriminated against now because people older than my twenty eight years assume that those of my age group are ignorant of anything that happened before 1993. I am discriminated against by other Christians, because I am not part of the "lets go down to the purpose built (at great expense) well maintained building where we all compare cardigans on a sunday" brigade, and because I am a metalhead, which often inspires the idea that I must be in league with Satan.

First things first folks. Christ is worshiped in a wide variety of ways across the planet, and even right here in the UK, where this story originates. I choose to worship Christ, not in the way prescribed by the church of either Rome (The very idea of a Roman Church is frankly appalling, and what the RCC has been responsible for in history is beyond savage, and not of God, and continues to this day in some very disturbing respects) or England (since lets face it, Christ was not English). I worship according to Jesus's word, in my own home, and in the homes of friends. I do not limit my social connections to those who share my faith, since Jesus was aquainted with people from EVERY walk of life. Thieves, prostitutes, barbarians, tax collectors, all of these broke bread with him at some point, and he with them.

He had far more tolerance and love for those who were outside of all faith, more compassion for them than he ever did for those who had puported to faith, went through the motions, said all the right things, while making liars and bastards of themselves before God. Note, Jesus was never recorded as beating down people from other faiths, but if he walked into a temple dedicated to God and saw people making money by usurping the faith of the people, he would go ape, trash thier wares, scatter thier coin before the people, and make the perpetrators sorry they ever crawled out of the womb. THAT is Christianity. The gutless, hand holding, appeasing, blinkered, blinded, institutionalised, wasteful and GREEDY church that exists in this day and age, needs as much persecuting as can be leveled upon it, for the Church itself has become seperate from the people, a vast network of nothing more than money.

People (generally those who dont comprehend at the same time as they read) often say that St Peter was tasked with "building a church" for all Christs followers, and that this is why we have these massive buildings, and the huge expenditures on staffing and maintaining these buildings, why we have an institution at all. However, it is my belief that Christ's church should never have been of stone and mortar, and should always have been bound together by people. It should never have owned property independant of that owned by its followers, (which it does today). It should not have a bank account, or the capacity to act unilaterally (which it does today).

So, in short, organised Christianity, the abused, raped version practiced in buildings dedicated to the purpose, rather than amongst true believers who do not require a club house, treasurers, managers, priests and vicars, organised Christianity SHOULD be persectuted, because it is as much of God as the murder of the young, and the destruction of innocence are. That the entire structure is not currently on fire, collapsing around the heads of the kiddy fiddlers and accountants who currently run the entire show, is a travesty, and given that the Church (not Christians, but the institution itself) has been responsible for the bulk of persecution over the last thousand and more years, toward everyone else, I think its about time the vile construction took a licking. And as Rowan Williams clearly pointed out, most of the people complaining wouldnt know persecution if it jumped up, and forced its fist down thier throats.

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul


Hear hear.

The "religious right" whining about how abortion or homosexual law reform is "oppressing" them is just pathetic.

no-one is forcing them to have abortions or into gay marriage.

no one is forcing them t change THEIR beliefs or practices.

What is happening is that medieval attitudes and stone age morality is no longer being enforced on OTHER PEOPLE who disagree with it.

They are hypocrites - "the govt (or anyone else) better not try to stop ME from doing what I want......but other people shouldn't be allowed to do what they want"!

www.theguardian.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Hypocrisy is often seen in men saying one thing and yet doing another.

Who has forced all children to attend "school"?
Who has forced all children to learn the theory of evolution as their Origen?
Who is now forcing all of our children to learn that "love is love" and that gay sex is natural?
Who is now starting to force our children to learn Buddhist practices?
Who is removing the terms mother, father, husband and wife in case it "offends" a sexually confused individual?
Who is outlawing feeding the homeless and those in need?
Who has removed Christ and installed the above?

The government which is surrounded by phalluses, Greek gods and Masonic temples. How hypocritical of you to regurgitate their mantra "that medieval attitudes and stone age morality" is being removed from being forced onto people and not recognise that their religion and morality is being forced on to us? Shouldn't you rather try to understand that you are blind to what they are doing?

The fact that you applaud Rowan Williams comments indicates that he is not speaking in Christ. The gospel has always "offended" the carnal mind and the fact that many are cheering the new pope and william's comments merely indicates that they are seeking the approval of men and not God. He is doing no differently than your government and my government - he is redefing words. And once we accept those new definitions we can never come to the truth because we reason with those new definitions. This is what this ex-archbishop is doing and you cannot understand it. You cannot see that he is speaking to the world and not to those in Christ. You applaud this man's comments because he speaks the words of this world. He knows that you are blind and deaf and as such, he controls your mind. He is merely giving you a belief and definition that he needs you to have. That should scare you but I know that it does not.

Wicked men control you through your thoughts and beliefs. They have taught you that love means tolerance and from that erroneous definition you now tolerate everything. A pedophile is standing there already arguing that his "condition" is no different than a homosexual. But you cannot see it. A person who rapes animals is already opening animal brothels around the world arguing that his "condition" is no different than a homosexual. But you cannot see it. The UN is already working on forving through rights of sexuality to your children. A person with every degenerate desire is standing there arguing that you don't love him if you don't tolerate his choices. This is what the new MANDATORY RELIGION has brought. A wicked wicked world which men like this "ex archbishop" bring about through their refedinitions of words. So now, persecution is limited to those who are being killed? Seriously ? What about the fathers going to prison from demanding the right to take their children out of the state indoctrination factory on the days they insist on teaching his children that sodomy is natural? How about the pastors being jailed and fined for feeding the homeless? How about the parents jailed for refusing to teach their children the theory of evolution because they KNOW God as Creator? In your blindness you cannot see your hypocrisy. You cannot see the swaying of your mind just as the Jews did in Judea. They cannot have you see any of that as persecution - so you don't. Like a stage show hypnotist does through repetition - you become blind to what persecution IS. You only see persecution for what they DEFINE IT AS. Therefore you will never see reality rising all around you. You simply "see" what they give you to see. His comments are so far from Biblical truth, yet I know that you cannot hear it. He speaks to you and the world - not me. He is a pagan Druid yet you think his words are of Christ. And as such, you will never ever see the righteous being targeted in our society by those whose deeds are evil. You will do as Rowan says - look upon them as not persecuted. You will do as the masons and fellow occultists tell you - think that love is tolerance and that those who lay down their lives and do you no harm nor anyone else are somehow the "evil ones". Meanwhile they are destroying you.

reply to post by WhoKnows100


The modern church is no more of God, than Charles Manson was of a fully sound frame of mind. It is full to bursting with self obsessives, liars, cheating spouses, people who trade on thier faith, people who lie before thier God, but use thier faith as a badge to hide behind, people who destroy the innocence of children, have abused vast numbers of women, men who build the pretence of belief for themselves as part of thier image, and yet frequent dens of iniquity, strip clubs and the like.

And as for being blinkered... The Chrisitan right would have us believe that there is no way to believe in God unless you are prepared to believe that the whole world and the universe in which it is suspended, was created in seven days. That is a LIE. It is NOT essential to believe that Gods idea of a day is the same as ours, in order to have a strong faith, it is not weakness to be able to accept science as well as faith. All science allows us to do is bear witness to the ever deeper complexity of Gods creation, and the blinkered, blind approach of some less intellectually endowed members of the Christian faith should not be taken up by those with mind as well as soul.

There IS room for both. This is why institutionalism is bad for Christian teaching. It totally removes all ability to reason, totally prevents people from being able to assimilate the good word into thier every day lives, by forcing people to believe that God wants us all to be blind, immature, incapable and pathetic of mind. That has never been Christs desire, and there is a special place in hell for everyone who advocates such an error strewn and psychotic position.

Originally posted by Cinrad

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul

no-one is forcing them to have abortions or into gay marriage.

no one is forcing them t change THEIR beliefs or practices.

Christian health workers (nurses, doctors) are forced by discrimination laws to perform abortions or need to look for employment elsewhere, even in a big hospital where abortions are not a common procedure.

Christian innkeepers are forced to rent their rooms to unmarried and gay couples.

Christians are being constrained to changing the traditional "merry Christmas" to "happy holidays".

Christians in "free" countries are being forced to remove their symbols from their workplace cubicles, not even being allowed to have cards and dust collectors with bible verses on them.

"no one is forcing them to change THEIR beliefs"???? Maybe, but they are being forced to not voice them. So you can believe what you want just don't say it huh? Just like the LBGT agenda pushers?

For example...

edit on 16/8/13 by Cinrad because: (no reason given)

It's to make up for all the laws that used to be in place forcing people to church on a sunday, even if they had no interest in being there

I know this is silly,forgive me-But I bet Rowan Williams has been mildly persecuted over his distinct resemblance to a Panda:



I bet he secretly snacks on bamboo shoots while no one is watching.

News Flash: Most of us could not care less who your sleeping with, what you eat ,smoke, drink or what you believe for that matter. Dont care what happens to you after you die. Nada does not matter to most of the people I know that believe the way I do. I worry about my family and country and thats about it.
You mostly only hear about the loud ones that actually still care about the "unsaved". Im sorry about those people careing about you.I wish they did as much as I dont.
Here is another thing, most of us believe the world is billions of years old just like you do.
If in the end I was wrong, I lose nothing.I wont even know or care. Ha.

The Arch Bishop was part of the problem, glad he is gone.

As an ordained priest in Dudeism, I just want to chime in here.

Let's all take it easy, man.

Everyone being all certain that X infringes on Y.. yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.



It is COMICAL to read the rebuttals from the deluded, I mean the devoted. The puerile exampes of how they are "persecuted" is staggeringly funny. I mean is any of that really persecution?

Are you really hiding in basements under tarps, dirty sumo wrestler thongs and Mac Davis LPs in fear for you life?

Do you have permanent Charlie Horse in your neck from always looking over your shoulder for fear of an angry mob is going to descend upon you and flay your flesh from your bones with abalone shells like you are/was done to Hypatia?

Or are you just an over privileged & gullible cry baby who is controlled by lies?

FWIW, I am really am an ordained priest. You can be too, just look up dudeism and realize life is filled strikes and gutters, man.

Derek

reply to post by Toadmund


Sorry toad, my comment was not intended to offend.

Originally posted by TruthLover557

Honestly, I don't want my money that I am forced to give the government to be put toward funding abortions.

I honestly don't want the money I am forced to give the government used to keep churches tax exempt.
$92 Billion a year. Just because they "believe" something might be out there, and spend all their time telling people that there's a good chance they are right.

The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.
$92 Billion a year could fund universal health care.
I'm sure Jesus would approve of that.
The only people who don't approve are those who "don't like that particular bit of the bible."

edit on 16-8-2013 by Badgered1 because: (no reason given)

edit on 16-8-2013 by Badgered1 because: Syntax

edit on 16-8-2013 by Badgered1 because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by FFS4000
It's to make up for all the laws that used to be in place forcing people to church on a sunday, even if they had no interest in being there

Man I hate talking to people who go to church because they have to or think they have to to please God or to please the memory of a long dead authority figure from their past, those people are dried up old bones, a discredit to Christ. I would be more than happy to get rid of all organized church and let the true Christians shine and the religious ones sink.

Well the bottom line really is most 1st world citizens are pussy's compared to 2nd and 3rd world people. We pretty much have no idea what a hard life really is. That includes people well below the poverty line in North America and other developed nations. We're pussys plain and simple.