Rowan Williams tells 'persecuted' western Christians to grow up

Rowan Williams tells 'persecuted' western Christians to grow up

www.theguardian.com

Christians in Britain and the US who claim that they are persecuted should "grow up" and not exaggerate what amounts to feeling "mildly uncomfortable", according to Rowan Williams, who last year stepped down as archbishop of Canterbury after an often turbulent decade.

"When you've had any contact with real persecuted minorities you learn to use the word very chastely," he said. "Persecution is not being made to feel mildly uncomfortable. 'For goodness sake, grow up,' I want to say."

(visit the link for the full news article)

Hear hear.

The "religious right" whining about how abortion or homosexual law reform is "oppressing" them is just pathetic.

no-one is forcing them to have abortions or into gay marriage.

no one is forcing them t change THEIR beliefs or practices.

What is happening is that medieval attitudes and stone age morality is no longer being enforced on OTHER PEOPLE who disagree with it.

They are hypocrites - "the govt (or anyone else) better not try to stop ME from doing what I want......but other people shouldn't be allowed to do what they want"!

www.theguardian.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


Well they do have their beloved evil child murdering rapist to fear.....

Just wait till the next natural disaster so we can all collectively face palm as the religious right stands up to proclaim this is gods punishment for "immoral" activities.

Have you guys seen any congressional testimony on abortion practices?

I just wanna make sure I'm in the right place, the same place where thousands of people voiced against the war on Iraq and Afganistan under humanitarian points. ATS?

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


Agreed, furthermore I would like to add on the former archbishops comments by saying, I'm all for a free society but I strongly urge christians to consider unshackling themselves from the fiction based reality that is god, you don't need to believe in a higher purpose to have meaning and happiness in your life.

Yea "former archbishop" ok.

Why the sudden attack on christians alone? There are people in the world who would not step on a bug, they respect life that much. Where is your mockery for them?

Originally posted by Nephalim
Yea "former archbishop" ok.

Why the sudden attack on christians alone? There are people in the world who would not step on a bug, they respect life that much. Where is your mockery for them?

Not attacking anyone buddy and it's really aimed at all walks of religion, No mockery intended but I'm merely suggesting that the higher purpose, god thing is slightly askew and if you can't be happy within yourself first, then loving some kind of big man in the sky really isn't going to help you anyway.

Being a Christian Mystic, not only do I get biased treatment from non-Christians, but I get downright hatred and evil looks from Christians like Evangelicals or Baptists. (Not all, but definitely some)

Still its nothing to how it will be in about 20-30 years when Christians become minority in U.S.

Originally posted by Zcustosmorum

Originally posted by Nephalim
Yea "former archbishop" ok.

Why the sudden attack on christians alone? There are people in the world who would not step on a bug, they respect life that much. Where is your mockery for them?

Not attacking anyone buddy and it's really aimed at all walks of religion, No mockery intended but I'm merely suggesting that the higher purpose, god thing is slightly askew and if you can't be happy within yourself first, then loving some kind of big man in the sky really isn't going to help you anyway.

Nor was I. The original comment was. If you dont agree with religion, dont. Doesnt really matter to me. Im perfectly happy with myself, and God thus no need to attack others religious beliefs.

Originally posted by Nephalim

Originally posted by Zcustosmorum

Originally posted by Nephalim
Yea "former archbishop" ok.

Why the sudden attack on christians alone? There are people in the world who would not step on a bug, they respect life that much. Where is your mockery for them?

Not attacking anyone buddy and it's really aimed at all walks of religion, No mockery intended but I'm merely suggesting that the higher purpose, god thing is slightly askew and if you can't be happy within yourself first, then loving some kind of big man in the sky really isn't going to help you anyway.

Nor was I. The original comment was. If you dont agree with religion, dont. Doesnt really matter to me. Im perfectly happy with myself, and God thus no need to attack others religious beliefs.

No, no, it certainly wasn't, free choice mate, I'm merely suggesting that religious people should maybe, well, consider the possibility that they're wrong

Originally posted by Nephalim
Yea "former archbishop" ok.

Go find out why that is...

Why the sudden attack on christians alone?

He's not ATTACKING anyone - and that you think he is is illustrative of the pathetic mindset of some people.

There are people in the world who would not step on a bug, they respect life that much. Where is your mockery for them?

Why would anyone mock them? They aren't trying to force me to follow their beliefs....other than by their good example...which most fundies never seem to be able to manage!

Real vs. Fake Christian Persecution: how you can spot the difference

I grew up in a loving family, where we made sure that if you started to whine or feel sorry for yourself, you were treated for your condition with the phrase, "Whaddya got, a persecution complex?" Once said, the effect would make the afflicted person snap out of it. Persecutory delusion

I have previously discussed my own theory attempting to explain this weird persecution complex — the idea, generally, being that by pretending we’re a persecuted minority rather than the hegemonic majority we actually constitute, then we’re also able to pretend that we’re: 1) Noticeably different in our dreams, desires and daily lives from those otherwise indistinguishable-from-us neighbors who share our culture but not the particulars of our faith; and 2) Noticeably and intolerably more virtuous and righteous than those otherwise indistinguishable-from-us neighbors who share our culture but not the particulars of our faith.

My theory, in other words, is that we’ve chosen the illusion of self-righteousness over the actual hard work of becoming the kind of love-driven, love-shaped people Jesus called us to be.

[url=http://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/2011/11/14/the-american-evangelical-persecution-complex-continued-and-continued-and-continued/]source[/u rl]


Fifty years ago, there was a Christian movement to be ecumenical, inclusive, more loving towards fellow human beings. This attitude did not sit well with some Christians, who wanted to set themselves apart as truly being more worthy of Heaven and God, excluding everyone but them for Heaven and God, and, for some, even excluding certain races or instituting a ban on interracial dating.

By 1980, these exclusive Christians had hitched their wagon to political stars, and both religious and government leaders (and media spin-offs) scratched each others backs for worldly gain. Not "born again"? Too bad, as you won't ever set foot in Paradise or an elected office, especially in Washington.

This attitude and shared power could help bring in the $$ for all things either pastoral or political

Well, that and the fact that telling people they’re being persecuted, and that their only hope is to respond to this fundraising letter with a donation of ___$100, ___$50, ___$25 (check one) also proves to be a lucrative racket.

same source as above

Maybe a younger generation won't be fooled by all this flim flam and fix this most unGodly mess. One can only hope and pray.

Originally posted by desert
Real vs. Fake Christian Persecution: how you can spot the difference

I grew up in a loving family, where we made sure that if you started to whine or feel sorry for yourself, you were treated for your condition with the phrase, "Whaddya got, a persecution complex?" Once said, the effect would make the afflicted person snap out of it. Persecutory delusion

I have previously discussed my own theory attempting to explain this weird persecution complex — the idea, generally, being that by pretending we’re a persecuted minority rather than the hegemonic majority we actually constitute, then we’re also able to pretend that we’re: 1) Noticeably different in our dreams, desires and daily lives from those otherwise indistinguishable-from-us neighbors who share our culture but not the particulars of our faith; and 2) Noticeably and intolerably more virtuous and righteous than those otherwise indistinguishable-from-us neighbors who share our culture but not the particulars of our faith.

My theory, in other words, is that we’ve chosen the illusion of self-righteousness over the actual hard work of becoming the kind of love-driven, love-shaped people Jesus called us to be.

[url=http://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/2011/11/14/the-american-evangelical-persecution-complex-continued-and-continued-and-continued/]source[/u rl]


Fifty years ago, there was a Christian movement to be ecumenical, inclusive, more loving towards fellow human beings. This attitude did not sit well with some Christians, who wanted to set themselves apart as truly being more worthy of Heaven and God, excluding everyone but them for Heaven and God, and, for some, even excluding certain races or instituting a ban on interracial dating.

By 1980, these exclusive Christians had hitched their wagon to political stars, and both religious and government leaders (and media spin-offs) scratched each others backs for worldly gain. Not "born again? Too bad, as you won't ever set foot in Paradise or an elected office, especially in Washington.

This attitude and shared power could help bring in the $$ for all things either pastoral or political

Well, that and the fact that telling people they’re being persecuted, and that their only hope is to respond to this fundraising letter with a donation of ___$100, ___$50, ___$25 (check one) also proves to be a lucrative racket.

same source as above

Maybe a younger generation won't be fooled by all this flim flam and fix this most unGodly mess. One can only hope and pray.

edit on 15-8-2013 by desert because: links not working

edit on 15-8-2013 by desert because: can't eliminate space in last "url" on third link

Great Observations!!!! Star for you!!!!!

Ive realized that what Jesus taught is ego-death, Enlightenment, and Nonjudgment.

What I have found happens in the majority of denominations, is that people replace their worldly egos, for a spiritual based holier-than-thou ego, exactly how you described it.

What's worse is the mentality of saying, "I'm forgiven anyway, so might as well indulge in _______ sins"

Facepalm!!!!!! Still, I've come to learn to love even those whose egos trick them

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


Yes because the kid on a bike with a bible is going to FORCE you to believe differently Gaul. Your point is just as pathetic. You sat back and started to ridicule with non belief didn't you? How does that make your position any less pathetic than the folks you're on about.

Originally posted by dominicus
Being a Christian Mystic, not only do I get biased treatment from non-Christians, but I get downright hatred and evil looks from Christians like Evangelicals or Baptists. (Not all, but definitely some)

Still its nothing to how it will be in about 20-30 years when Christians become minority in U.S.

edit on 15-8-2013 by dominicus because: (no reason given)

Im sorry to hear that Dominicus. Some get revelations on their own with time.

reply to post by Nephalim


No - because the laws of the land "force" people how to behave - and stuff like homosexuality is something they shouldn't have anything to do with but all the Xians are up in arms about it.

But thank you for demonstrating whine-ianity at it's "best"!!

reply to post by Nephalim


maybe because Jainism, which i believe you are describing, is based on compassion for others lives, rather than blind faith to a single entity whóse people destroy everyone who is not like them.

I'm all for people having faith. Something they can truly believe in. Something that gives them a profound feeling of something or other. Honestly. I think that's great. I'm deadly serious about that.

Now...
If those people need a child rapist in a dress telling them how to think.
If those people need somebody else to translate their god's "word" to them.
If those people have to rely on someone in an expensive suit to justify their faith.
If those people need to follow the lead of others to justify their faith.
If those people find men of the cloth to be wise simply because they are men of the cloth.
If those people practice a la carte religion (i.e. picking the bits they like, and discarding the bits that are unpalatable).
If those people can't think for themselves.
If those people try to justify the inconsistencies of their religion by rote repetition of text or by invoking the supernatural.
If those people base their entire lives on the rantings of second century pious idiots to make Bronze Age mythology pertinent to their modern lives.
If those people think their 'donations' are actually helping the 'poor.'
If those people refute common sense thinking, logic, history, science, and proof in favour of something they read in a book written about Bronze age mythology.
If those have their faith simply from being born in a certain place at a certain time (how many of the Christians out there would still be Christians had they been born in - say - Indonesia to Indonesian parents?).

I think those people are fair game.

There's a world of difference between religion and faith.
Following a religion, and being a person of faith are not mutually inclusive.
Religions deserve all the scorn that they deserve. I'm not sure that's true of those of real faith.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


Im sorry, the who?

Originally posted by TheToastmanCometh
reply to post by Nephalim

 

maybe because Jainism, which i believe you are describing, is based on compassion for others lives, rather than blind faith to a single entity whóse people destroy everyone who is not like them.

Yea I dont recall that old "Jeffrey Dahmer" character having much compassion.