Putin to arrange for joint military exercises with Egypt:

Originally posted by paraphi
In reality, I do not think Egypt is in a fit state to do military exercises with anyone. Egypt is also in no fit state to change their colours and probably would avoid Russian meddling like the plague.

Regards

They won't be avoiding Russian 'meddling' - because they don't want to be attacked by Israel. The Muslim Brotherhood was put in place by the US - through covert ops (CIA/Mossad), and backed by the Egyptian military.

This was done to radicalize Egypt, to make it look dangerous - so that Israeli and US aggression against Egypt could be justified. The Egyptian military is where the real power in Egypt lies, and although they are taking a great deal of US money, they also know that their long term future is endangered by taking the US bribes.

They will be more than happy to flip over and accept Russia, because Russia has a vested interest in keeping Egypt stable and independent of the US and Israel. The US can bribe people to a certain extent, but the hatred of Zionism is deeply ingrained, and if Russia offers them money plus integrity they will take it I am certain.

The trouble in Egypt right now is the US backed Muslim Brotherhood against the US backed military - if the US controllers can't install a muslim regime, then they can still destabilize the country enough to justify their intervention - the military leaders will know this, and they should be jumping at an opportunity to have Russia come in and kick out the Zionists.

reply to post by Amagnon


Still a bit confused on how the Military would "back" a CIA insertion of the Brotherhood when it's likely to result in a U.S. intervention via Israel.

Why back the brotherhood then kick them out?? Why "invite" intervention by Israel?

Why would Israel even entertain the idea when it would probably cause other nations to join Egypt is fighting Israel?

3 million vs 80 million??

I'm betting Israel is backing the Egyptian military on this one. The brotherhood has given nothing but grief to the Israel since they've been in power.

Before that Israel and Egypt were pretty stable.

Originally posted by Wookiep
Ha! Leave it to Russia to make things more interesting... I have no idea which side is right anymore, honestly. Things have got so confusing that perhaps all of the confusion is being caused on purpose.

Same here. Once I think I have a handle on who the "right" side is, I find out more information. It goes back and forth. I think the military there got more than they bargained for. Of course, the US is never going to condone a military taking out the elected govt. It would not be in their interest to show it's possible.

Originally posted by darkbake
reply to post by nwtrucker

 

I'm not sure, because what Mr. Spad says makes total sense, but what you are saying seems to be what is going on, I'm confused on this one.

Ask Mr Spad (since he's not answering my questions) why it has been made official that joint US and Egypt military exercises are cancelled and Obama has officially blamed the military for killing civilians. The next step is cutting the funding.

The West has controlled Egypt for quite some time and the military would have been stupid to not take the funding, because it knows that to not do this means being a target... take Iran, take Syria, take Palestine, Lebanon, Libya for example etc etc. So it takes funding and builds itself and the US rests upon that partnership foolishly thinking it will last for ever and that anyone can be bought indefinitely ... and Egypt was the most heavily defense funded country by the US next to Israel, which ought to tell anyone how critical this was to the West. It was directly for the protection of Israel and began WAY before allies stole Israel... as preparation for that crusade. They infiltrated Egyptian politics (especially Europe) way before Israel became an official state, because they always knew this was a key element and has been for ages. Israel vs Egypt.

That false partnership is very important to them to uphold.
Controlling one means controlling the other.

People will take US money, but that doesn't mean loyalty can be so easily bought.
The majority in Egypt still feel that they need to be free of Western influence... regardless of who they are made to work for.

To try to remove themselves from under this control before now, would have much less chances of being successful. After the coup, I recalled offers from Iran made to Egypt in February... and I STILL maintain that it is quite possible that the reason the military may now engage in that long awaited "flip" is because it has additional support from a new conglomeration that will compete with the World Bank, constructed by BRICS nations... and now look at what we have manifesting.

We have Russia appearing to attempt to give support to Egypt and take the US role as a guiding leader, because before this particular era as US economy suffers, China's economy grows so large, Russia is restructuring itself well, other countries are taking notice and dropping the dollar in different ways, George Soros is said to be influencing the market against the US dollar months after an important investor symposium in South China...You can see, it's the perfect storm.

Egypt can make it's move more safely now... because the global bully has a competing posse staring it down that has finally regained it's ground. This is one of the most important steps in ending invasive Zionism. This has been several decades in the making.

It *could be* mocked to confuse the people, because the people have been trying to accomplish this for some time and the West is well aware of that sentiment. This is why some are watching this so closely and yes, it's riddled with duality. Time will tell though. More and more details will come out. The US will try to maintain control by funding, by psychology, by forcing cooperation like two friend's walking out of a bank but one is a hostage, the other has a gun... but the true marker will be when Egypt falls out of the US hands... because the West doesn't want that to happen.

If and when it does, Israel will have no choice but to sit down and be quiet for a change.

This is why I believe Israel has jumped in Sinai... because Western backed terrorist are giving them the reason they need to intervene (setting up it's own targets.. the popular terror shtick)... and appear to re-establish partnership by playing heroes, and if not heroes- righteous condemners. If Egypt does not let them do this in the public eye, they will receive immediate back lash from the West... because it will just allow the interim government to gain more population support to not allow them to intervene. This setting up of targets to give the West "ground" will get worse until we see something similar to Syria... and accuse the interim government of failure.

Whether or not Egypt takes Russia's alleged offer will prove a lot.

As Egypt looks at it's options, the West offers new threats... like the video I just posted.
"Be our partner or suffer the consequences"

Yes, this is confusing and dicey but it's very important to read through the lies because it is critical to get behind a guiding power when sovereignty has been compromised to this extent.

Big elephant in the corner of the room:



Why do you think Saudi Arabia wants to build vast solar panel farms, nuclear power plants, etc?? Because they know the writing on the wall. These people have nothing but sand and sun (once the oil is gone).

Egypt is screwed...they have the Nile and they produce some food, but 80 million people and growing?:

Egypt is reported to be the world’s largest importer of wheat. In 2010, the oil minister stated that Egypt imports 40% of its food, and 60% of its wheat.

Read more: www.businessinsider.com...

I really believe the powers that be could care less if a few 100,000 get killed off... too me its a case of overpopulation. Oil exports=money=food... Do i agree with that method of action? No... but come one...if you don't produce enough food, you don't eat...ugly stuff. Other countries in the region better get a control on their breeding or they will be in a world of hurt,,,but i doubt that happens and many egypts will occur...the US will be happy to supply them all with the latest in weaponry.

Remember folks, we have our own problems here at home...luckily we have good soil, good climate and a manageable population (so far)...

reply to post by NotAnAspie


OK, got your post. Where does Obama come into this?

Apparently, the administration is threatening to cut off Egypt's 1.6 Billion in aid.

Canada has come out with an outright opposite condemnation of Coptic church and Christian school burnings by the brotherhood.

Everything Obama seems to be doing is contradicting the goals you have posted.??

Still isn't adding up.

Going back to having enemies on both sides of Israel-last time they came 20 minutes from using nukes-doesn't seem in anyone's best interests. ??

Originally posted by nwtrucker
reply to post by NotAnAspie

 

OK, got your post. Where does Obama come into this?

Yeah, threatening to cut off military funding. Pretty sure I mentioned that. the EU is considering cutting off aid as well. How does that NOT play into this? How is it NOT apparent. That's what I'd like to know.

I don't know how else I can answer this question because I already have in numerous ways, but I will try again.

To call it a coup would mean going ahead & breaking off those ties, which the US has held onto for a long time to control Egypt. many people in the US do not want this for reasons I have mentioned. If Obama supports this approach, then he is for "giving up" & letting go of that control, but as of right now he is tip toeing all around it & these threats are looming. He outright condemned attacks on civilians, which could be very understandable if it weren't for the fact that if civilians were doing (in the US) what they are doing in Egypt, then they would be getting attacked here as well.

There isn't any real reason why anyone should be sticking their necks out like this for Morsi. He's not even a good representation of the MB because of his stances. He's not even really supporting what people consider the bad points of Islam (jihad) much less the good points. He's been accused of being a western fake. Ok, so these supporters might not see it this way, but why go to this extent for some guy who wouldn't piss a fire in their home out? I think there's propaganda & mind control going on because they are acting on zeal & matyrdom, which is an emotion but the circumstances don't really make sense that they would matyr themselves for this guy, so the logic is absent. That reeks of propaganda seeding... everyone's actions don't always make sense but in this case, you have a fueling of the pro-morsi protests, imo. There's people coming out of the woodwork, not to protest but just to start trouble with the police & get them pitted against the people protesting, then when attacked, the people protesting are hurt, get killed and get angry with the police and it spreads like water on an oil fire...exactly what the trouble makers wanted.

US politicians have outright declared that they do not want to lose control of Sinai & that is the only reason to keep giving them this money, which they have not yet pulled back... but are threatening to. It's a threat. The threat is to extract the behavior that they want, which is to have some kind of influence & get more mouthpieces into office. I'm not saying they won't make good on that threat, but at this point, it's just a threat. Europe is doing a similar thing. Why? Well, what if the rumors were true? Morsi is a western backed puppet. How could that not make sense to you? i really don't understand why you are not seeing the connection. The US is unhappy with Egypt. Why? It must be the coup of their guy. What else could it be? They need someone in there that will pretend to NOT bow down to Israel to the people, but bow down to Israel in reality.

Many in the west are saying "allow protesting"..."stop attacking civilians" but Egypt has recently seen some of the largest protests in the world so they don't really need to be told this when they have been dealing with massive protests for a while now & listened to what seemed to be the majority call & got rid of morsi... so it's stupid the US would say that, so why do they keep saying it? Because someone is fueling the antimorsi protests but adding elements of mischief to it in order to inflame the police & make it obvious that there is a sincere public threat.

Attacking religious groups always radicalizes it, but in reality this is a political issue. So what that points to is that this is deliberate... a deliberate seeding of fear and violence. Why? Destabilization paves a path of intervention... but they haven't gotten done yet playing the money card. That is the cleanest way to do it in the public eye, because if we get foreign intervention which is western backed involved in Egypt... then the US motive is obvious, set in stone as an evil intervention of geographic interests, not interest in the people. The US doesn't want to jump out there & expose themselves so obviously so they are dangling the money. Dangle, dangle, dangle... while Egypt is being given a taste of what is to come, violent radicalization that will distort what is in the public eye...which historically works! How? If a country can be painted as unstable & full of people who just want to fight, conservatives will turn a blind eye to the intervention & never even care to bother asking why we need to get involved. They will trust the gov in light of "those bad people" which is a sickness rampant in the US.

Anyone who has the gall to tell Egypt to endure protesting when Egypt has endured some legendary protesting... has either got a serious issue with common sense... or they have someone on the inside who is DIRECTLY planning to dump violent fuel on a protest. You can take that to the bank! There is no reason that certain officials in the Obama administration should have EVER uttered those words to Egypt in light of what they have just recently experienced.

I'm certain that violence is being staged in Egypt. Meanwhile... the benefits of all that old control are being wagered. THEN you have this allegation that Russia is going to offer joint exercises to Egypt.

How is it even possible at this point that Obama is assured and resting on the idea that the US still has Egypt in their pocket? How?

If that were true, none of this would be happening and there would be no need for what is going on in Egypt to be plastered all over top news head lines EVERYDAY.

Yes, what is going on is terrible but there is terrible stuff going on all over the world. Why such focus on Egypt and all the terrible stuff going on if we are cool with what Egypt has done and are not concerned one bit thinking the military will always be on our side.

EVERY DAY.... Egypt this, Egypt that.... Oh, they are concerned alright. How is it not obvious?

It's falling out of their hands. They want to blame inaction on Syria and the turning of the tide on Obama... now they've lost control of Egypt, but the fact is... if they acted, they would have a mess to deal with here in the states and in Europe wthl their own fellow politicians and civilians. People aren't buying into the old tactics anymore and that is why these old war dogs need to get the hell out of public offices. They need to retire and tend to their dementia and PTSD instead of thinking people are buying into their crap anymore. Well, some are... but the tide has turned and they need to get with the times or get the hell out.

No, Obama is not exactly like them... and he can be blamed with letting a lot of US control fall away, but the fact is... no one could have stopped this. Every president has things on their watch that has caused this to happen. It's inevitable. It's simply in the math. I think the only reason that Obama is clinging to the hope that we can still influence the world is because he will be blamed if certain things happen in the market that are indirectly caused by what is going on. I think he is being advised that if he doesn't stay on the old beaten war path for ultimate influence on the middle east, that the economy will fall apart.

It wouldn't if the economy was revamped... but the military industrial complex is hungry for a large war, DC is hungry for plunder, the people are just pissin them off I think, so they just get thrown onto the chess board as pawns... and when it escalates to a certain point... in their minds, we won't owe a thing to anyone because they always rewrite the rules after we've had a global knock down drag out. we the people will be taken down several notches globally and will not be crying for the tech we know exists and giving such a hard time to "the man". We'll take what we can get and be glad we survived it and control will be reaffirmed by them. The conditions are right for it... across the board. Something has to give because we are at that fork. It's palpable... but it's not really looking favorable for the war dogs, which is a good thing... and losing Egypt is a key point. I still believe that is why Ahmadinejad went to Egypt. Iran has less to fear with Egypt not being controlled by the West.

Every day you should see it clearly that the US government is hitting all around, all the right spots to try to reaffirm it's control.

If you don't think that the US is insecure with it's control of Egypt... then You answer the question of what are they doing all that for? What is all this even about if we have such a good standing concerning influencing their military and politics?

Why is Obama making the public statements he is making if the position in Egypt is so secure?

What do YOU think Obama is up to if you don't see how it all adds up?

I have no idea how could not at least see the picture being painted, even if you don't agree.

How are his actions going against the possibilities I have described?

I appreciate your patience with my lack of grasping your view on this.

I still think this is a little too convoluted. It's a bit too easy to put everything into the CIA/U.S. manipulation pot while ignoring British and European interests in the area.

Both of which have a far higher vested interest in an open canal than the U.S. does with it's current, massive oil reserves.

Still, my knowledge is limited, admittedly. You may be correct on all this. However, I adamantly draw the line on your intervention conclusion.

Neither Israel nor the U.S. will intervene, at least directly.

I'd bet on it.

The military of Egypt knows fully well that action against Israel results in a lot of sand turned into glass. Period.

They at least recognize that an agreement to disagree with Israel is the best course of action, IE, do nothing to Israel if Israel does nothing to them. I believe at least most of the American interests recognize that fact.

With the Eurozone one random, unpredicted event away from total collapse, the economics of it all should trump the political and religious views completely.

Assuming any remaining sanity in our gov'ts.

Finally, I think you grant too much to U.S. interests. The strings pulling U.S. policy goes far back in time to Euro/British manipulation in the U.S..

At the least, not all of this is the U.S.'s doing.

Again, you seem to ignore that. I wonder why?

reply to post by nwtrucker


If you want to get more confused - look at the other elephant in the room.

The US backed muslim brotherhood had just accepted a loan from the World Bank - which is affiliated with the Federal Reserve banking system - right before the muslim brotherhood was overthrown.

The same Federal Reserve which doesn't seem to have any gold left that the world's countries seem to want back from them - see Germany - and won't let countries inspect the gold that they say is still in the vaults in New York City and Fort Knox.

Russia and the other BRIC's nations (Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa) are attempting to start their own alternative "World Bank".

Russia's allies in the Middle East are Syria (Assad) and Iran. Add to that list Cuba, Venzelula (sp?), China, Brazil - you get the picture - all those countries around the world that really have had it with the US.

That's why Mccain and Graham went over there to Egypt and desperately tried to get the military to let the muslim brotherhood back in to their gov't.

They NEED the IMF, World Bank, and Federal Reserve systems to stay in control.

India, Iran, China, and Russia are already buying oil with gold and Yen - and are dissolving the USD as the "petro dollar".

ALWAYS, follow the money.......

reply to post by Happy1


LOL, thanks a lot!

The only thing is who's currency would replace the U.S. Dollar as the "Petro-dollar"?

The currency exchange is bogus from the ground up. The Euro-dollar is worth less, in reality than the U.S. dollar as the prop for the Euro is the IMF and the U.S. notes. Ain't that a hoot!!

The Yuan, from my sources, is also being "dumped" by Chinese companies and the gov't as fast as they can buy oil. mines, etc.

What's left? NADA.

The Yen is being dumped as Japan is printing them twice as fast as the U.S. to devaluate and thereby increase exports so the P.M. there can get re-elected.

So again, thanks for the extra confusion...I think I'll have a beer and take a nap ))

Originally posted by nwtrucker

Still, my knowledge is limited, admittedly. You may be correct on all this. However, I adamantly draw the line on your intervention conclusion.

Neither Israel nor the U.S. will intervene, at least directly.

I'd bet on it.

The military of Egypt knows fully well that action against Israel results in a lot of sand turned into glass. Period.

They at least recognize that an agreement to disagree with Israel is the best course of action, IE, do nothing to Israel if Israel does nothing to them. I believe at least most of the American interests recognize that fact.

With the Eurozone one random, unpredicted event away from total collapse, the economics of it all should trump the political and religious views completely.

Assuming any remaining sanity in our gov'ts.

Finally, I think you grant too much to U.S. interests. The strings pulling U.S. policy goes far back in time to Euro/British manipulation in the U.S..

At the least, not all of this is the U.S.'s doing.

Again, you seem to ignore that. I wonder why?

If you think I have ignored that, you haven't read many of my posts.
I know this all too well and you are right, Europe is a lot of the reason this has happened and I have gone on and on about this in other threads, because the US is a corporatocrasy of old European interests. I have made lengthy posts about how the British gave up fighting in the American revolution as it would be more effective for them simply wait to heavily invest in the US... and despite all that happened in the American Revolution, ten years after it started the Central Bank of North America was already taking British investments again.

And in THIS post I have mentioned how Europe was the source for a lot of the early intervention into Egyptian politics... ALSO mentioning the fact that the EU is threatening the cutting of aid to Egypt... So I have no idea how you missed my comments on that.

It doesn't change the fact that our banks are intertwined and therein lies the main problem, but this is so obvious it doesn't even need to be stated at this point. We are attached at the hip to European elite. Unless we drastically change this policy, there is no ONE without the OTHER. Monkey see, monkey do... time and time again. Technically, we still have not achieved Independence.

Don't even try to say I haven't pointed that out time and time again, because I know it very well. It's why I brought it up. I have repeatedly referred to the US as The European elites war dog on this forum... because it's true. Just about every single war we got ourselves involved in has to do with European interest and usually from the same handful of countries where Catholicism has strongest historical ties because that is where those banking trends rose.

If you call that ignoring it, then I just don't know it is going to take to make a more obvious statement to you. The reason it's more important to focus on the actions of my own government, is because our dumb government will lead the pack. It has become the strongest among them. The US is making more of a fuss about this even though Europe probably stands a whole lot more to loose. We are protecting their interests... that's very true, but it is STILL our actions and as a citizen of this country, I will concentrate on that responsibility of appealing to the view points of other American citizens before I will put all my focus on countries I have no say in... but I have far from ignored this issue. We are leading this and we are the ones that could potentially cause the biggest change.

As for no one intervening in Egypt... you may be right because they are getting further and further behind in their game and they know this. At this point it would be incredibly stupid to openly intervene because they never wanted this to happen... this is a huge kink, something they didn't plan as an agenda... but in reality, they are already intervening from behind the scenes. I firmly believe this.

It all goes back to the point I made about it being so important that certain US officials call out to the Egyptian military to allow protests from the anti-morsi crowd. They made it a point to say this in the public eye so that they could make it into an even bigger tragedy and call shame on it when it became violent. They knew it would, because they seeded it themselves.

I have no idea why you'd stick up for the CIA.

We all know they are dirty, war mongering, global drug dealers who build criminal assassins in the system and are the biggest threat to any aspect of American life because THEY CAN BE.

It's why they seek those positions in the first place, to be able to pull ANY string and be fully covered.

They waste so much of the American tax dollars on their schemes and we all know it.

Why would you even bother promoting a doubt of their potential for evil?

Are they the only one? Of course not but they are all one of a kind in the West.

Sorry! I haven't participated on any threads where you have posted before, as I recall. Frankly, I haven't much gotten into this area previously.

Your post clarifies it for me in this thread.

I do believe, firmly, that as the decades long, lone superpower, the world, overall, has progressed as far as economic development and a somewhat improved life-style for millions world-wide due to that unprecedented stability.

The current mess in the ME is largely British made. At least from WWI forward.

My only beef with Ron Paul has been on the military side of things. IE., the "military industrial complex" issues with his solution of cutting the military rather than cleaning up that "complex".

On the face of it, my view is this planet has never been safer for more than under this self-assumed "policeman hat" that the U.S. has worn. Have they worn it well? Probably not. However, there is no doubt in my mind that there is no alternative to the U.S. wearing that hat. No one else is capable of it, never mind inclined to do so.

Having said that, it looks more and more like a tighter rein is needed by a more aware/concerned citizenry.

More balance. Not less power. Not an isolationist America.

We've been down that road in the two world wars. The ingredients being fairly evenly matched multiple powers and an isolationist U.S.

That route leads to the "trifecta" as well. Just a different way to get there.

reply to post by nwtrucker


I dunno about you, but I would prefer non-intervention (Ron Paul) over isolaton (North Korea). There is a big difference between no longer meddling in the affairs of other countries which seem to only piss them off at us vs going into a corner and cutting ourselves off from the rest of the world.

reply to post by Wookiep


Good point.

The trouble is distinguishing the difference between the two. there's an overlap no matter how it's defined. Also, the North Korean eg. is as much isolated by others as self imposed.

A stated policy of non-intervention is a form of isolation in and of itself. Others knowing you aren't part of the equation if they make a move has the same result either way, from what I can see.

"Non-intervention" will piss one side off as much as intervention pisses off the other side.LOL.

The balance I see would be a more selective intervention. To wit, an internal struggle that hasn't blatant outside interference. Egypt could fall into that category, Syria to a lessor degree.

Does Taiwan even survive without a stated policy of a defense pact with the U.S. Sri Lanka? Kuwait?

Bottom line is an almost inevitability of being "sucked into" someone else's beef when preventative action could have ended it before it started.

I firmly believe that's the case with Iraq, in the long run. I also believe that keeping Iran nuclear free does the same between them and Israel. We somehow did it between Pakistan and India not too long ago but no ones saying anything about that one.

You may think my line goes too far and you might be right. The hard part is drawing that line without too much outside interests- impossible to get rid of it all.

We have many bases around the world, some needed and some not perhaps. If memory serves, no country that has had a U.S. or NATO base- same thing- has ever been invaded or even screwed with.

I'd go as far as those that don't want those bases should lose em..... screw em. LOL

reply to post by nwtrucker


Well, you make some good points but the U.S. has been doing this for decades now. We have gone to many wars under the guise of "pre-emptive" measures and have done more harm than good. (like the "WMD's that didn't really exist) There is no way to predict what the benefits of "preventative" actions will be until after the action has taken place. Unfortunately for the U.S., we the people more often than not end up regretting supporting such wars once the aftermath is uncovered. I also do believe in the "blowback" theory in which we are just building more resentment toward the U.S. in the long run.

The underlying problem is the fact that we no longer have a system in which our commander in chief gets congressional approval for such actions. But even with these illegal wars in place, we have a congress that is bribed by special interests, and 83% of Americans don't approve of them anyway. These days though, we have special interests by-passing congress and going straight to our President.

Then another real problem, is that no-one but a very small handful of officials decide these things when most the time the actual people who should be running this country don't have a say at all. To top it all off, these "officials" lie so often and cover so much up that we the people don't have any info as to what is really going on. So in effect, we are told to trust these people, and that is big huge red flag in itself.

Even with all the deep corruption there still is the fact that we are 16.7 trillion in debt and can no longer afford to sustain these wars. Sure, we have many allies and we don't wanna piss them off either. So in that sense, I do agree with you. We cannot isolate ourselves from them, but there are other ways to assist our allies without injecting ourselves into the front lines of war every-time someone sneezes. Besides, the sneezing is just an excuse anyway if you know what I mean.

Good points. I agree with it. The only part where I wince is the no WMDs.

We gave him the Anthrax seed and the chemical weapons during the Iraq-Iran war. He used the chemicals against the Kurds killing over 100,000 if memory serves. This is well known but somehow forgotten.

If Saddam was still in power, with the oil for food kickbacks, I'm betting it would be at least 50-50 Iraq would be a nuclear power by now.

Still, there should have been some other way of pulling his teeth.

Neither Iraq nor Afghanistan deserve the cost in blood and money in "nation rebuilding". Both have shown that, as far as I'm concerned.

Back home, we're badly in need of house cleaning before we get involved anywhere else!!!