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The new "Normal" in America

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posted on Aug, 6 2013 @ 10:30 PM
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I think it has to do with population. There is just too many people and not enough need. No such thing as infinite growth in a finite world. Everyone cant have a high paying job especially when there is such greed and currency hording by the rich.




posted on Aug, 6 2013 @ 10:49 PM
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reply to post by neo96
 


And I repeat myself.

You don't understand insurance.

Clinton actually ended the big deficits Reagan maintained.

Some people have no affinity for reality..

This is the truth

The fed gov owes the Social Security plan money.
Not only has the cost of running the military state created by conservatives absorbed all the money from the SS taxes, it has sunk this country ridiculously into debt.

Those who claim differently are the ones telling lies.


edit on 6-8-2013 by poet1b because: typo



posted on Aug, 6 2013 @ 10:56 PM
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reply to post by poet1b
 





You don't understand insurance.


Whatever




Clinton actually ended the big deficits Reagan maintained.


No he did not see the last 2 presidencies




Some people have no affinity for reality..


True as the 'clinton ended Reagan deficits' clearly shows




The fed gov owes the Social Security plan money. Not only has the cost of running the military state created by conservatives absorbed all the money from the SS taxes, it has sunk this country ridiculously into debt.


Keep saying this over and over again

Wasn't the truth the first time

Wasn't the truth the second time.

Not the truth this time.

As people get older, more people are added to those programs, new programs are added more people being added IS THE GD PROBLEM that ALL increase the cost.

Blame the conservatives ALL YOU want STILL IS NOT THE TRUTH.
edit on 6-8-2013 by neo96 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 6 2013 @ 11:49 PM
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reply to post by neo96
 


You are really not making any sense in this one.

Once again, chart showing how much money the fed gov owes Social Security. What may or may not happen in the future doesn't change the current reality.



The conservatives spent all the money collected from social security, and all the money borrowed, primarily on the military and medicaid, which is a subsidy for illegal immigration, which also occurred primarily under repub admins.

Clinton didn't end Reagan era big deficits? I wonder what twisted logic you have to come to that conclusion.

Lies, liars, and damned liars.



posted on Aug, 7 2013 @ 12:05 AM
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reply to post by poet1b
 





You are really not making any sense in this one.


Made more sense than the tripe that was just posted saying this crap:




The conservatives spent all the money collected from social security, and all the money borrowed, primarily on the military


No



nd medicaid, which is a subsidy for illegal immigration, which also occurred primarily under repub admins.


Sorry who is trying to pass amnesty right now?

WHO?




Clinton didn't end Reagan era big deficits? I wonder what twisted logic you have to come to that conclusion


17 trillion dollar debt ring a bell?

100 million Americans on food aid ring a bell?

70 million Americans on Social Security Ring a Bell?

70 million Americans on Medicare Ring a Bell?

60 million on Medicaid ring a Bell?

Oh I forget who was the party that brought us Social Security,Medicare, and Medicaid?




Lies, liars, and damned liars.


I agree

This post

This Post

THis Post

This Post

This Post

This Post

ARE LIES just like it's ALL the evil rich,corporations and conservative's fault.


Hey EVERYONE hear that ?

Them evil rich people.
Them evil corporations
Them evil conservatives

Are out to getcha ! ! ! ! !

Run to the left they will 'save' you !



posted on Aug, 7 2013 @ 12:22 AM
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Originally posted by poet1b


Clinton actually ended the big deficits Reagan maintained.

Some people have no affinity for reality..

This is the truth





You do know Bush was after Reagan, right?

You also fail to mention Clinton didn't have to fight a "Cold War". Talk about the truth being left out......

Sheesh.



posted on Aug, 7 2013 @ 12:28 AM
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reply to post by poet1b
 



Clinton didn't end Reagan era big deficits? I wonder what twisted logic you have to come to that conclusion.


Of course Clinton didn't do that. Sure, it happened on his watch but he fought it every step of the way, only later trying to take credit for it (typical revisionist history). It was Newt and the GOP that balanced the budget.


Recall that it was the Clinton White House that fought Republicans every inch of the way in balancing the budget in 1995. When Republicans proposed their own balanced-budget plan, the White House waged a shameless Mediscare campaign to torpedo the plan — a campaign that the Washington Post slammed as “pure demagoguery.” It was Bill Clinton who, during the big budget fight in 1995, had to submit not one, not two, but five budgets until he begrudgingly matched the GOP’s balanced-budget plan. In fact, during the height of the budget wars in the summer of 1995, the Clinton administration admitted that “balancing the budget is not one of our top priorities.
www.cato.org...
edit on 7-8-2013 by seabag because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 7 2013 @ 12:31 AM
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Redistribution systems exist within every government. It is nothing new.

I pray for the day when there is gun control.

There is nothing wrong with a welfare state on the verge of socialism (sorry if I scare people with that word
). Look how well that corporate capitalism thing turned out after all.

This whole farmhouse American pride thing needs to go.



posted on Aug, 7 2013 @ 12:38 AM
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Originally posted by djr33222
Redistribution systems exist within every government. It is nothing new.

I pray for the day when there is gun control.

There is nothing wrong with a welfare state on the verge of socialism (sorry if I scare people with that word
). Look how well that corporate capitalism thing turned out after all.

This whole farmhouse American pride thing needs to go.


What ?

We already have gun control:



Or did you mean the kind where only the military and the cops have guns ?

Think I will keep my pride only thing government can't tax and give to someone else.



posted on Aug, 7 2013 @ 12:56 AM
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reply to post by neo96
 


I think the military should have guns, police can have their tasers and clubs. We need to do everything possible to make this society less violence oriented, petty, and polarized. I couldn't care less if a few criminals commit violent acts with guns. The number of gun-related crimes would go down drastically - this is just common sense.

And we'll see how many criminals want to carry a gun illegally if it were an automatic life sentence.

Don't talk bad about welfare, you should care about your fellow man. YOU should care, not the government. Just the fact that you think higher taxes is the government stealing from you and giving to subhumans who don't deserve assistance is the problem right there.

You don't want universal health-care, free college education, or a much more peaceful society?

I feel like Americans are just uber greedy, resentful and envious of other people, afraid of their neighbors, etc... and this stuff really gets in the way of a better country.



posted on Aug, 7 2013 @ 12:58 AM
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Originally posted by djr33222
Redistribution systems exist within every government. It is nothing new.


Good.

Give the Government EVERYTHING you own then.



Originally posted by djr33222
I pray for the day when there is gun control.


I pray for a day where people know their rights, and will fight for them.




Originally posted by djr33222
There is nothing wrong with a welfare state on the verge of socialism



The Bolsheviks requisitioned grain from the peasantry, made private trade in consumer goods and "speculation" illegal, militarized production facilities, and abolished money. These measures were responses to economic conditions beyond control.



Peasants seized and redistributed noble lands and held small plots of land under twenty acres. Grain requisitioning and outlawing all private trade in grain brought famine in 1921 that claimed 5 million lives.



Large scale rebellions required military intervention and artillery. Peasants resisted forced collectivization by slaughtering their livestock instead of turning it over to the farms. Stalin launched an attack on kulaks, well to do farmers, meaning "tight-fisted -ones." Kulaks were not any better off than their neighbors, and the term was used for those hostile to collectivization. 1.5 million peasants were uprooted, their property confiscated, and resettled to inhospitable reaches of the Soviet east and north or to poor farmland. Their land and posessions were distributed to collective farms or to local officials bent on the "liquidation process of kulaks as a class." Being forced into collective farms or the exile of productive members of society didn't produce more food. Famine spread senselessly across the southern region, the most productive farming region in Russia. The only famine in modern times to occur without natural causes cost 3 to 5 million lives. Famine stricken regions were sealed off and allowed people to starve, while the Bolsheviks had grain reserves in other parts of the country that were sold overseas for currency and stockpiled in case of war. Resistance to Soviet power never happened again, yet the state was forced to dispense small private lots o! ! f land to peasant families that provided 50% of the nation's crops from a small fraction of the land.


Russian Revolution of 1917, Communism, Cold War

Nothing wrong here folks.



Originally posted by djr33222
This whole farmhouse American pride thing needs to go.


Sorry.

History tells us that your type of World you want, is even worse then the one we have.


edit on 7-8-2013 by sonnny1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 7 2013 @ 01:05 AM
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reply to post by djr33222
 





We need to do everything possible to make this society less violence oriented, petty, and polarized.


I agree social engineering is petty, and greedy glad that is sorted out.




And we'll see how many criminals want to carry a gun illegally if it were an automatic life sentence.


They don't care
They don't obey the law
They don't follow the law



Don't talk bad about welfare, you should care about your fellow man.


Don't tell me what to do.




YOU should care, not the government.


Don't tell me what to do.




Just the fact that you think higher taxes is the government stealing from you and giving to subhumans who don't deserve assistance is the problem right there.


Such an awesome strawman.




You don't want universal health-care, free college education, or a much more peaceful society?


Fiat currency and corporate products are on the individual not government 'benevolence'.




I feel like Americans are just uber greedy, resentful and envious of other people, afraid of their neighbors, etc... and this stuff really gets in the way of a better country.


Ah yes the fabeled social engineering of the environment to suit the individual instead of people adapting.

That was priceless.

Had no idea people had so much contempt of their fellow citizen to tell them they are inferior and need someone else's help to make it in this world.

They don't, and they never have needed anyone's help.



posted on Aug, 7 2013 @ 01:18 AM
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reply to post by sonnny1
 



Good. Give the Government EVERYTHING you own then.

I will. Back in the days of small tribal groups the chieftain was the government. Men would hunt, women would gather, other people would craft goods and they would all literally give everything they had to the chief who would redistribute it how he saw fit. Why? Because men had no use for an excess of meat, women an excess of plants and berries, and craft makers and excess of crafts. Once these items were given to the collective each person got everything they required based on overt need but also based on other important factors.

This system worked fine long before corporate capitalism.

Maybe we have just forgot the meaning of community here...



I pray for a day where people know their rights, and will fight for them.

This is certainly important. I think there are many rights more conducive to happy living other than every person having the right to own a large capacity firearm.

People get tangled up in the gun thing. Maybe we should focus on peace and prosperity more as a nation. The government should take the lead by dismantling military bases overseas and slimming down that defense budget.



The Bolsheviks

Marxism is an ideology. So is capitalism. In theory they are both good but in practice they can be mismanaged. And to a certain extent both have absurd assumptions and leave plenty of room for tyrants to take over.

Socialism has a lot of negative connotations added to it. It was actually the first form of governance and is very natural for the human species in my opinion. Certain European countries utilizing welfare state system and socialist principles have a quality of life that exceeds our own.


edit on 7-8-2013 by djr33222 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 7 2013 @ 01:29 AM
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reply to post by neo96
 



Don't tell me what to do.

A little sensitive aren't we?


Don't tell me what to do.

Really sensitive I guess.


Ah yes the fabeled social engineering of the environment to suit the individual instead of people adapting. That was priceless.

You are not making sense.


Had no idea people had so much contempt of their fellow citizen to tell them they are inferior and need someone else's help to make it in this world. They don't, and they never have needed anyone's help.

Like I said, YOU should care more about your fellow man. Don't you realize there are billions of poor people that were born into destitution.

You are certainly free to live your farmhouse American fantasies if you wish. The future will prove you wrong though and you will have to deal.
edit on 7-8-2013 by djr33222 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 7 2013 @ 01:30 AM
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Originally posted by djr33222

I will.



“I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.” ― Thomas Jefferson




Originally posted by djr33222
I think there are many rights more conducive to happy living other than every person having the right to own a large capacity firearm.



"The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good."―George Washington


Originally posted by djr33222
Marxism is an ideology. So is capitalism. In theory they are both good but in practice they can be mismanaged.


“The Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.” ― Thomas Jefferson

In some countries, you wouldn't even be allowed to say what you are saying now. Thats a fact.

Maybe you should look at our history, to get a better understanding on what freedom really is. To see how far we have fallen from its true path.



posted on Aug, 7 2013 @ 01:47 AM
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reply to post by djr33222
 





Like I said, YOU should care more about your fellow man


WHAT DID I SAY?

Not the boss of me, and sure the hell do not own me.




Don't you realize there are billions of poor people that were born into destitution.


Sorry the world is not my problem thank ya kindly to stop trying to make in mine.




You are certainly free to live your farmhouse American fantasies if you wish.


farmhouse keep saying that that suppose to be some kind of insult?




The future will prove you wrong though and you will have to deal.


Actually the past 70 years have proven me right THERE IS NOT enough FIAT CURRENCY to go around and the only thing some people want to do is create a dependency based society.
edit on 7-8-2013 by neo96 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 7 2013 @ 01:52 AM
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reply to post by sonnny1
 


The ills you see in the government I see in the people. A sick government is only the reflection of a sick people.



posted on Aug, 7 2013 @ 01:58 AM
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Originally posted by djr33222
reply to post by sonnny1
 


The ills you see in the government I see in the people. A sick government is only the reflection of a sick people.


I cant say you are wrong on this.

But.......

Redistribution isn't the way. Firearms? Please.

People need to wake the hell up and quit living in TV Land. Quit getting sucked up by the manipulating media. Quit drinking the kool-aid our President is pouring down our throats. Quit buying the lie that everything is alright.

16 trillion in debt. Who is going to pay for it ? Me and you. That's your redistribution. All of your money, your kids and grand-kids money paying for the mistakes of those who are suppose to protect and serve us. "We the people" let this happen. Time to pay the piper.



posted on Aug, 7 2013 @ 02:49 AM
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reply to post by neo96
 



Actually the past 70 years have proven me right THERE IS NOT enough FIAT CURRENCY to go around and the only thing some people want to do is create a dependency based society.

Ever see Charlie Chaplin's Modern Times. That is the past 70 years for you. Industrial slave workers turned into managerial industrial servants who were exploited by people like Henry Ford to work work work in factories then consume consume consume in factory stores such that the laborers are appeased by a little money and autonomy on the job while the rich get filthy.

Then you have the rising middle class which never actually rose. People got white collar jobs that gave them a false sense of autonomy. The elite giving the peasants just enough scraps to keep them satiated while the reality was they were politically emasculated and alienated from the world because of their inability to affect or change it. As America has become more powerful that power has only ever gone up to the elite. The elite are those people you never see because they live in elite communities, their children attend elite schools their entire lives and they get power positions in government, military, and business. America is theirs and any ideas us common folks have that we somehow own a piece of it is an illusion.

This is what Marxism is all about, class warfare. Except in America people like to dream they can become rich and famous like the elite or are satisfied with subsidence living, distractions, etc... that they don't revolt. That whole mythology about working hard, protecting yourself, and being politically aware does not take into consideration the fact that America is an oligarchy ruled by certain people which will always exclude everyone else when it comes to important matters.

The people who don't want a welfare society are the people who think they aren't slaves to the corrupt system like everyone else. Just wait until you get those medical bills that empty out your life savings and cripple you financially beyond recovery. Or maybe the elite take all your stuff in the middle of the night while you're sleeping or even kill you for funsies.

Krypteia:
"Every autumn, according to Plutarch (Life of Lycurgus, 28, 3–7), the Spartan ephors (classical Greek Ἔφοροι) would pro forma declare war on the helot population so that any Spartan citizen could kill a helot without fear of blood guilt. The kryptes were sent out into the countryside with only a knife to survive on their skills and cunning with the instructions to kill any helot they encountered at night and to take any food they needed." - Wikipedia

Now I understand people on ATS understand all about the elite, however they have this tendency to blame the problems of the poor on the poor. Marx highlights this false perception in his Communist Manifesto.



many of members in capitalistic societies see the rich as having earned their wealth through hard work and education, while seeing the poor as lacking in skill and initiative. Marx rejected this type of thinking and termed it false consciousness, explanations of social problems as the shortcomings of individuals rather than the flaws of society.



posted on Aug, 7 2013 @ 02:56 AM
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reply to post by sonnny1
 


I absolutely agree on the debt issue. I was just thinking there could be ways to use redistribution to tilt the scales in our favor, like stripping the defense budget and re-appropriating those funds in universal health-care . Medical bills are the number 1 reason for bankruptcy in this country and when a person's health is constantly in a precarious position due to an exploitative medical insurance system people are more likely to be obedient slaves.
edit on 7-8-2013 by djr33222 because: (no reason given)




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