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Originally posted by tadaman
reply to post by frazzle
so because they did not take measures to protect the natives from getting sick, they KILLED them like this thread (which has washed out completely), implies? They didnt do so for every other population. Do you even understand the context of history we are talking about here? People had a life expectancy of half of what you and I enjoy. Native and European alike. Kids went to work at 10 YO doing manual labor and people took horrid care fo themselves. I mean come on, you cant be serious....well...maybe you are.
also that was ONE out break I mentioned. I will not believe that you MISSED the rest of the out breaks over hundreds of years brought by Europeans that effectively killed off 90% of the natives. This is accepted, peer reviewed history. Please. Just please, this is getting to be pathetic.
Your argument also comes FAR short from bringing the blame of the obliteration of native peoples to the feet of the American government or its people. This all just points to prior genocide by Europeans. The US is not going to be Europe´s whipping boy as far as EUROPE´S manner of colonization and brutalization of the Americas......just no.
You can feign ignorance of the accepted, well documented, and known history brought forth by the international community if you like. I will not. Frankly I am just not willing try to look like such a putz on purpose.
edit on 30-8-2013 by tadaman because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by frazzle
No, there wouldn't be a lot more native people here, they'd have been killed in the more overt ongoing genocide, and inadvertent disease would still have been overwritten on the pages of history as the cause because the "winners" need to feel innocent and upstanding.
At some point in time this continuous behavior and the justification of it has to be acknowledged as less injured innocence and more a mindset of flat out stupidity and cruelty.
So yeah, it sucks to be the losers but I know alley cats with more moral turpitude than can be claimed by the winners.
When I say more people I mean back when Europe first started to colonize the Americas. If there was 10s millions of more Indians I really think we would see at the least different borders.
Welcome to the human race....
“A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear.”
― Marcus Tullius Cicero
If its so pathetic why do you keep coming here and responding? Of course I'm not saying that the thread hasn't tanked for lack of interest.
After all, we've got bigger fish to fry these days ~ Afghans, Iraqis, Libyans, Egyptians, Syrians, Yemenis, etc. etc. Still hunting down and killing brown people we don't understand because we don't NEED to understand anyone ~ that part of our heritage has not changed at all, we've still got bigger, better guns than "they" do. And we are, in your estimation, the "poor whipping boy". Oh boy!
And, of course, I'm not saying that tens of thousands of indigenous people didn't die of European borne diseases, which speaks to the filth and disease that Europeans had adapted to over the course of its existence and brought with them to America. Which is not to say that these outbreaks didn't kill a large number of Europeans as well, particularly children, both in their home country as well as the "new world".
Indigenous peoples often commented on how the invaders could be detected long before being seen, just by the smell because bathing more than once a year was considered "unhealthy" and "uncivilized" by Europeans (this is also peer reviewed). Walking petri dishes loaded with yucky stuff and the natives had no immunity to all that filth.
So I don't particularly care whether you call them European, American or the best thing since sliced (white) bread, this continent has been pretty much ruined by a bunch of what's-his-names who came here with gold and glitz on their minds and they did what they did IN the US, not in Europe, and that included a rampage of gratuitous murdering of those who DID NOT succumb to disease so they could get to the gold and the land.
The irony in that is if you look around today, the same people who owned and controlled the gold and land (and slaves and indentured servants) back then still own and control it and you. And they are apparently more than willing to do to you what they did to the natives. In a the more things change the more they same kind of way, now they've got big pharma and big ag to get rid of as many useless eaters as possible, but never discount all those "defense" weapons and hollow points DHS has purchased to take care of any stragglers and belligerents who survive the diseases.
No, it tanked because its original argument that "the UNITED STATES committed the greatest genocide" was empirically debunked.
Orders of George Washington to General John Sullivan, May 31, 1779
“The immediate objectives are the total destruction and devastation of their settlements and the capture of as many prisoners of every age and sex as possible. It will be essential to ruin their crops in the ground and prevent their planting more.”
Read more at indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com...
Originally posted by tadaman