should America surrender to Islamic rule?‎

Is the American constitution worth defending against ‎
‎Islamic totalitarian ‎oppression ‎
Should we be fighting against Islam
‎ That is what the war on terror is and‎
‎ you know this if you read ‎the 911 report‎
Or should America and the world surrender to Islamic‎
‎ rule and except ‎‎ Shariah law so the Muslims stop killing people ‎
‎even though the suffering will not ‎stop‎

I don't understand the point of your post. With the invasion of Iraq and the lack of evidence of anything resembling a huge Al Qaeda terrorist network, it should be clear that there is no such thing as a gigantic islamofascist army waiting to take over the United States.

Also at this point in the "War on Terror", there has yet to be a muslim country capable of defending itself against United States-led offensives. I don't see how or where anybody would think that it would be possible for any group of jihadist muslims to take over the world. What little of them that do exist have no ability to even defend against invasion from aggressive outsiders.

why do you think the minute the US is threatned the whole world is threatned??
also the "alquida" links are rather iffy. i mean supporting an enemy of your old enemy is one thing, giveing them supplies is another.

The islamic nation is called the Ummah
it has no line on a map all muslims are members of the ummah and are working in there own ways to bring allahs law to every part of the world
there is no daylight betweeen UBL Zarqria and the guy down at the corner selling cigerrettes .
think main stream muslims want to preserve the constitution?
they do not and that is easy enough to prove if you choose to look.

Ishaq:587 �Our onslaught will not be a weak faltering affair. We shall fight as long as we live. We will fight until you turn to Islam, humbly seeking refuge. We will fight not caring whom we meet. We will fight whether we destroy ancient holdings or newly gotten gains. We have mutilated every opponent. We have driven them violently before us at the command of Allah and Islam. We will fight until our religion is established. And we will plunder them, for they must suffer disgrace.�

www.road-to-heaven.com...

8.39. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides All�h) and the religion (worship) will all be for All�h Alone [in the whole of the world ]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides All�h), then certainly, All�h is All-Seer of what they do.

Originally posted by Frith
I don't understand the point of your post.

I'm with you on this.

perhaps there is an 'underlying' theme, being addressed?

recall in the early to mid 20th century
a 'army' of 'inspired' individuals were aroused to action...
they called themselves 'ANARCHISTS'

they, (debateably) started WWI
perhaps, a 'fundamentalist Islamic Army' will reprise the Anarchist model??
to 'lay waste' to infidels? westernized societies? neo-darwinism & cultures?

i believe it will get worse before it all gets better...sadly

KAOSKTRL. You're posting words and nothing more. There has to be some sort of proof that a jihadist army is waiting in the shadows to take over the United States and the proof just wasn't there. It was just a few guys and thats it. To use a piece of text as "proof" of this coming war is very delusional. Fact is that people can and will write whatever they want. Another fact is that we have seen the grand majority of muslims are peaceful people who are tolerant of others like most modern christians.

Give me more KAOSKTRL. Give me links to stockpiles of WMD. Give me links to hundreds of convicted Al Qaeda agents. Give me SOMETHING to make me buy into your jibber-jabber. Because thats all I'm reading right now.

This is base propaganda and nothing more in my opinion.

You could cherry pick a ton of stuff and 'prove' similar. Almost anything from the Old Testament would give you a stack of similar 'be ye separate' and 'true peace will be achieved by killing them all' quotes.

So what? I don't go for that blood-drenched fascist crap either.

I think in terms of 'kill ratios' no-one has ever come close to 'the west' and the numbers 'we've' slaughtered around the globe at various times.....so who is really at war with whom, huh?

[edit on 10-11-2004 by sminkeypinkey]

Why should we surrender to muslims when Europe is doing so much better of a job at it than we ever could?

Funny.

Now try justifying that dumb comment mwm1331.

Originally posted by Frith
KAOSKTRL. You're posting words and nothing more. There has to be some sort of proof that a jihadist army is waiting in the shadows to take over the United States and the proof just wasn't there. It was just a few guys and thats it. To use a piece of text as "proof" of this coming war is very delusional. Fact is that people can and will write whatever they want. Another fact is that we have seen the grand majority of muslims are peaceful people who are tolerant of others like most modern christians.

Give me more KAOSKTRL. Give me links to stockpiles of WMD. Give me links to hundreds of convicted Al Qaeda agents. Give me SOMETHING to make me buy into your jibber-jabber. Because thats all I'm reading right now.

(�Radical Muslims have at times treated nonradicals as one large sleeper cell that can be activated by summons to the full practice of their religion. This is illustrated by a chilling story from the Ottoman Empire of the late nineteenth century:

�Then one night, my husband came home and told me that the padisha had sent word that we were to kill all the Christians in our village, and that we would have to kill our neighbors. I was very angry, and told him that I did not care who gave such orders, they were wrong. These neighbors had always been kind to us, and if he dared to kill them Allah would pay us out. I tried all I could to stop him, but he killed them � killed them with his own hand.�

�In this light, the number of terrorists and their sympathizers is likely to grow beyond Pipes� 100 to 150 million. In a very real sense this group is what the less militant majority considers to be the conscience of the umma. They are the people who actually dare to do what Alla said to do, whatever the cost.� (Islam Unveiled: Disturbing Questions About the World�s Fastest-Growing Faith, by Robert Spencer))

Originally posted by KAOSKTRL
Or should America and the world surrender to Islamic�
� rule and except �� Shariah law so the Muslims stop killing people �
�even though the suffering will not �stop�

Shariah Law = Muslims stop killing people

Look at the Muslim countries that have Shariah
Law. Not only would non-Muslims be killed or sold as slaves, the
people who 'converted' to Muslim would be at the mercy of 'honor-
killings' and holy wars of different sects within the Muslim religion.

If the entire world became Muslim, the killings would still continue.
Shias vs Wahabbis vs ________ (pick a Muslim group).

People will ALWAYS find something to kill over.
No matter what religion they profess to be ...

[edit on 11/10/2004 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
Funny.

Now try justifying that dumb comment mwm1331.

Tell me sminkey what is the most practiced religon in the UK or EU?
Hint it aint the anglican religon or the the catholic religon or judaism.
It aint Hindu or buddhism either.
The EU refused an entire cabinet recently because one member was a chrstian.
Europe hates religon unless its Islam and then its a great thing.
Hope you don't like pork or beer sminkey you won't be allowed to have either much longer.

Originally posted by mwm1331
Europe hates religon unless its Islam and then its a great thing.

Islam AND Secular Humanism (yes, it's a religion).
They LOOOOOOOOOOOOVE Secular Humanism.

Originally posted by mwm1331


Tell me sminkey what is the most practiced religon in the UK or EU?

well i dont know because there are many religions here and all are pretty strong.

Hint it aint the anglican religon or the the catholic religon or judaism.
It aint Hindu or buddhism either.

oh really evidence please or is this another great american intelegence breaifing?

The EU refused an entire cabinet recently because one member was a chrstian.

uhh i dont think so.since that would be racist and against UN law.

Europe hates religon unless its Islam and then its a great thing.
Hope you don't like pork or beer sminkey you won't be allowed to have either much longer.

really?
do you live here? no
i have islamic friends and want to know one thing? they are a minority.
also whats wrong with islam i ask BTW are you saying there is something "evil" about it?
oh yeah sure thing man , next we will wont have armies we'll have jihads! keep up the good old US education system.

LOL, this is a funny thread, and Ill tell you why: Bush won via the bible belt and many hardline christians who were so terrified of some gay people having some kind of rights that they signed on for four more years. You think that mass of bible belieiving, god fearing people will sit by and let the US be converterd to a muslim nation? Yearh right. You'd have things like the Trail of Tears all over again, except with muslims instead of indians.

Originally posted by St Udio

Originally posted by Frith
I don't understand the point of your post.

I'm with you on this.

perhaps there is an 'underlying' theme, being addressed?

recall in the early to mid 20th century
a 'army' of 'inspired' individuals were aroused to action...
they called themselves 'ANARCHISTS'

they, (debateably) started WWI
perhaps, a 'fundamentalist Islamic Army' will reprise the Anarchist model??
to 'lay waste' to infidels? westernized societies? neo-darwinism & cultures?

i believe it will get worse before it all gets better...sadly

I do not understand why you will not take the word of the 911 commision as to the nature of the enemy.

mainstream muslims are working to destroy America
from the floor of the house of representives

How can we exist on a planet if there are hundreds of millions of people who believe that if one does not believe in their God, if one does not accept their principles of religious ideology, that they do not deserve to exist and that they are, in fact, some sort of threat to them?

We need to do other things that encourage Islam to look internally and to reform itself. There are many people, I read comments by leaders in the Islamic faith, Muslim leaders, that suggested that they too had come to the conclusion that something was very, very wrong inside their religion. Some even called it a corrupted religion. They lamented the fact that in recent history, although terrorists had different kinds of nationalities and ethnicities, they had one thing in common: they were Muslims. And they lamented that fact, and they said there is something wrong with this religion. There is something wrong with a religion that, in fact, promotes a cult of death. So there is hope that reform can come to Islam.

I agree with some of the comments made earlier by some of the folks over here that said that terror is not the thing with which we are at war. It is simply a tactic. I have said this on this floor many times and now for several years, and I am glad to hear it being repeated by others because, of course, it is important for us to understand who the enemy really is.

[Time: 23:10]

I think our friends on the other side did not go as far as they needed to go to actually describe them. It is fundamentalist Islam with which we are at war, make no mistake about it. And whether that fervor, that Islamic fervor leads you to do things like press for a separation from Russia because you want to create an Islamic republic, it is still fundamentalist Islam with which the world is at war. Or whether it manifests itself as it did here by planes crashing into buildings and into the Pentagon and into fields in Pennsylvania, it is fundamentalist Islam with which we are at war. Around the world, incidents occur. There are motivating factors that combine to create them, but when you sort of get to the bottom line, what is the common element? It is fundamentalist Islam.

www.house.gov...

Guess what devil wasp I live here too.
Thats right I live in europe.
As for the numbers got that from a cnn special called "the view from europe"
Specifically it was stated by a english journalist that Islam s the most practiced religon in the UK.
Notice the word practiced?
As in the followeers of Islam actally practice thier religon IE attend mosques, read the quran etc.
The level of anglican church attendance in the UK is less than 5%
Islamic adherance is in the 90% percentile range.

uhh i dont think so.since that would be racist and against UN law.

Check the news devilwasp. It happened. The EU commisioners (I'm nt sure if tht was the right term) were outraged by the fact that he was a chrstian who thought homosexuality was immorl. Despite the fact that his personal views had no bearing on his job and the fact that he publicly stated he would not allow his personal religus belefs to affect his position they were forced to remove the request for approval because the EU as a whole were going to VETO the entire cabinet because one man was a christian.


here ya go found an article for you
www.washingtonpost.com...

[edit on 10-11-2004 by mwm1331]

Originally posted by KAOSKTRL
Is the American constitution worth defending against �
�Islamic totalitarian �oppression �
Should we be fighting against Islam
� That is what the war on terror is and�
� you know this if you read �the 911 report�
Or should America and the world surrender to Islamic�
� rule and except �� Shariah law so the Muslims stop killing people �
�even though the suffering will not �stop�

the point of having this nation is so that we can do what we want, within the law, and not be forced to do what anyone else wants us to do. submitting to another form of government would be giving away everything that is the foundation of what our country stands for and i won't do it. can you imagine the resistance force that would create?

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
I think in terms of 'kill ratios' no-one has ever come close to 'the west' and the numbers 'we've' slaughtered around the globe at various times..

By 'the west' are you meaning all of Europe and America, or
just America.

America is only 225 years old. Our history isn't old enough
to have killed as many as Gingis Kahn, Napolian, Hitler and
Alexander. (give us some more time, we could catch up).
The old Romans and the old Egyptians
both had impessive kill numbers. The slaughter that the bible
speaks of in the middle east over the centuries is huge - those
are in the present day Muslim and Jewish land areas. Japan
racked up some impressive kill totals in the 'good ol' days' of
the samauri. Russia and China have been notorious over the
past and recent past of mass murdering their own citizens who
disagreed with country policies ... we are talking MILLIONS sent
to death in Siberia as well as in China. Heck ... Rwanda, Uganda,
and the rest of Africa have some rather LARGE numbers too,
and that's still going on as we speak. How many million did
Idi Amin (sp?) murder? Last we heard, he's still alive and doing
well in the middle east. He's under protection. (newsweek did
an interview with him last year). Let's talk slovac .... Yugoslavia
and the hundreds of thousands (perhaps a million) that died
there under Slobo...

To vilify the west as bad ... and to raise up the rest of the
world as innocent .... that's just wrong. Humanity has ALWAYS
killed. It always has. It always will. Most of the world has
blood flowing in it's past, and in it's present.