should America surrender to Islamic rule?‎

Muslims in Britain have made it clear that they have no intention of assimilating. Dr. Zaki Badwari, former Director of the Islamic Cultural Centre of London wrote, "A proselytizing religion [like Islam] cannot stand still. Islam endeavors to expand in Britain. It aims at bringing its message to all corners of the earth. It hopes that one day the whole of humanity will be one Muslim community, the Umma." Britain operates as a strategic base for some of the most radical Islamic groups which preach hatred, incite to violence and recruit volunteers for terrorist activities.

Noble Qur�an 2:190 Footnote: �Jihad is holy fighting in Allah�s Cause with full force of numbers and weaponry. It is given the utmost importance in Islam and is one of its pillars. By Jihad Islam is established, Allah�s Word is made superior (which means only Allah has the right to be worshiped), and Islam is propagated. By abandoning Jihad Islam is destroyed and Muslims fall into an inferior position; their honor is lost, their lands are stolen, their rule and authority vanish. Jihad is an obligatory duty in Islam on every Muslim. He who tries to escape from this duty, or does not fulfill this duty, dies as a hypocrite.�


The passage itself can be found in two places. It is on page 39 of the Noble Qur�an translation by Muhammad Khan and distributed by �King Fahd Complex for the Printing of the Holy Qur�an�The Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques. It is a footnote to Qur�an 2.190 and is designed to explain Jihad according to Allah as this is the first time the word is used.
And it can be found on page 580 of the Islamic University of Medina�s translation of Sahih al-Bukhari�s Hadith. There it opens Bukhari�s Book of Jihad.

In both cases, the Islamic scholars are condensing Allah�s and Muhammad�s teachings on Jihad to a single paragraph.


In Holland [aka The Netherlands], because of its total lack of anti-terrorism laws and its very high level of religious, cultural and judicial tolerance, Muslim-fundamentalist terrorist groups are allowed to thrive. The Muslims now number about 6% of the population. In 20 years' time the majority of Holland's under 18 year old children will be Muslim. In fact, 50 per cent of the newborns during the next twenty years will be Muslim!


Two million Muslims have soaked into Germany; one million into Italy; 200,000 in Spain; 500,000 in Belgium...1/10th its entire population and 1/4 of Brussels, its capitol city. Half of all babies born in Belgium are now Muslims!

France is faring no better. In 1945, there were 100,000 Muslims in France. A fifty fold increase since then now has them numbering 6 million out of a total population of 60 million! In twenty years, one out of every five Frenchmen will be a Muslim! And if the French-Muslim birth rate continues as projected, France will have a Muslim majority in less than 25 years! Another telling statistic is that although the Muslims are 10% of France's population, 60% of the country's prison population are Muslims!

Originally posted by Frith
KAOSKTRL. You're posting words and nothing more. There has to be some sort of proof that a jihadist army is waiting in the shadows to take over the United States and the proof just wasn't there. It was just a few guys and thats it. To use a piece of text as "proof" of this coming war is very delusional. Fact is that people can and will write whatever they want. Another fact is that we have seen the grand majority of muslims are peaceful people who are tolerant of others like most modern christians.

Give me more KAOSKTRL. Give me links to stockpiles of WMD. Give me links to hundreds of convicted Al Qaeda agents. Give me SOMETHING to make me buy into your jibber-jabber. Because thats all I'm reading right now.

I can only show you the door you have to walk through it
you have to be willing to lift your head out of the sand yourself.

Originally posted by devilwasp
since that would be racist and against UN law.

Koffi Annan and his son broke U.N. law for years
with the Oil For Food theft they did. Billions of
$$$ were stolen from the Iraqi's by the son of
the head of the U.N. It's the largest white collar
crime anywhere in the world in recorded history.

Just because something is against U.N. law, doesn't
mean the law gets followed. The U.N. is a corrupt cesspool.

Do you really think Americans could change their worldviews enough to even come close to carrying out the Shariah?

I'll put it this way. As soon as the New World Order, or the unified world government or whatever tells the USA that it is no better or worse than any other nation, THEN you will see some terrorism!

I think the biggest mistake that could be made would be for some 'world power' to try to take away that which makes Americans unique. And that is that we know we are Americans. Pit fierce religion against fierce nationalism, and you will see a war unlike any other.

At that point, I'll probably start writing cartoon strips or something. What a market.

Any of this sound familiar?

How to Make America an Islamic Nation
by Yahiya Emerick

I was born and raised here. This is my land. I'll raise my children here, Insha'allah and probably be buried here as well. I knew that by accepting Islam I was declaring that America needed to do so too. America, my home, would naturally become an Islamic country one day. There is no other way to think if you are a truly conscientious believer in Allah.

In past columns, I have raised complaints or alarm bells at the state of some segment of the Muslim community. Now I'm going to offer three suggestions for how we can turn the situation around and become the dominant social and cultural force in a country that needs Islam more than another pop-star, beer-brand or psychic network.

Originally posted by mwm1331
Guess what devil wasp I live here too.
Thats right I live in europe.

really? thats a pretty american sounding comment....you sure your not american?

As for the numbers got that from a cnn special called "the view from europe"Specifically it was stated by a english journalist that Islam s the most practiced religon in the UK.

well if you take into account the fact that englands south is full of imagreints then yes i am quite prepared to believe that.

Notice the word practiced?
As in the followeers of Islam actally practice thier religon IE attend mosques, read the quran etc.
The level of anglican church attendance in the UK is less than 5%
Islamic adherance is in the 90% percentile range.

to be religios you dont need to go to chruch. where is this level actually found BTW?islamic religion is a lot more involed than ours is and most islamic countries force them to learn it , or so i told.

Check the news devilwasp. It happened. The EU commisioners (I'm nt sure if tht was the right term) were outraged by the fact that he was a chrstian who thought homosexuality was immorl.

notice the "thought homosexuality was immorl." that is not exsactly the best person to have on a cabinet.

Despite the fact that his personal views had no bearing on his job and the fact that he publicly stated he would not allow his personal religus belefs to affect his position they were forced to remove the request for approval because the EU as a whole were going to VETO the entire cabinet because one man was a christian.

you cant keep your personal views to yourself. its part of what makes you. also i dont think JUST becuse he was christain they would VETO him. they were protesting about his veiw on homosexuality.

From what I've seen the USA has already surrendered to Born-Again-Christian rule.

Originally posted by Nerdling
From what I've seen the USA has already surrendered to Born-Again-Christian rule.

Yes. By vote not by force.

Originally posted by Nerdling
From what I've seen the USA has already surrendered to Born-Again-Christian rule.

Very true, unfortunately.

Well The gospel Of christ does not require me to kill non christians Muslims doctrine does.

Originally posted by KAOSKTRL
all muslims are members of the ummah and are working in there own ways to bring allahs law to every part of the world

hmmm, last year I went to Benin, Africa, for a cooperation mission - my employer was helping them create a community radio station. The guys who run that radio project - names Mohamed and Nouhoun - are Muslims, they live in a (very poor) community where 95 percent of the population is Muslim. Yet, they made sure that as Westerners we felt welcome - especially, even if they don't drink, they made sure we were supplied in beer .

They took us to see all the villages in the commune where the station will broadcast, so we could get a feel of the population and its needs. Even more, one day, they took us on a "religion" tour. They introduced us to the imam at the mosque, the Catholic priest at the church, and the Protestant minister at his church. Each of those three places we felt welcome, and even more - when Mohamed and Moumouni, two Muslims, went to see the Catholic priest and the Protestant minister, they were welcomed with handshakes and happy slaps on the back. Those people all work together, religion aside, to create a better life for themselves.

No, it's not the case everywhere... but to say that Mohamed and Moumouni are working to establish a Muslim hegemony over the world is ridiculous.

Originally posted by mwm1331
Tell me sminkey what is the most practiced religon in the UK or EU?

- What do you mean by 'practised?

That's a loaded term if ever there was.

Do you mean regularly attend religious services week in week out or even day in day out or will attending the odd Christening, Wedding, Funeral etc do?

You see in our terms that is just meaningless.

Hint it aint the anglican religon or the the catholic religon or judaism.
It aint Hindu or buddhism either.

- So what if British or European 'Christians' aren't particularly devout.....or if Brits and Europeans aren't particularly religious and another group is; what of it?

Big deal.

The EU refused an entire cabinet recently because one member was a chrstian.

- No. That is just a complete distortion of the truth.

The proposed EU commission was rejected because it contained a loathsome bigot in a sensitive position.
Someone who had already publicly preached his bigotry (as he was perfectly free to do) and who subsequently suffered the consequences of his views. You can choose to dress that up as being 'Christian' if you like but it will not (and thankfully did not) wash here.

Europe hates religon unless its Islam and then its a great thing.

- That's just a stupid lie. Many millions of Europeans are 'religious' we just don't go for 'fundamentalist Christianity' in any shape or form at all. Most of us (because of our various national histories with fundamentalist 'Christianity) steer well clear of it quite happily and with great relief.

....and your implication that 'Islam' is some kind of uniform 'threatening' mass is just absurd. You have no evidence for this.

Hope you don't like pork or beer sminkey you won't be allowed to have either much longer.

- More silly idiotic crap. Sorry to be so blunt but it just is.

Perhaps you'd be good enough to explain just how is this scary Islamic revolution is meant to happen in a region where Muslims are such a small minority?

Wise up. It isn't going to happen.

Specifically it was stated by a english journalist that Islam s the most practiced religon in the UK.
Notice the word practiced?
As in the followeers of Islam actally practice thier religon IE attend mosques, read the quran etc.
The level of anglican church attendance in the UK is less than 5%
Islamic adherance is in the 90% percentile range.

- Yeah, notice the word practised, indeed.

Then think about how meaningless the term is to us.

Even if a 100% of a small minority of the population danced the hokey-cokey 1000 times a day so what and what of it?

It gives that small minority no 'special powers' or influence.

Wake up.

The EU commisioners (I'm nt sure if tht was the right term) were outraged by the fact that he was a chrstian who thought homosexuality was immorl. Despite the fact that his personal views had no bearing on his job and the fact that he publicly stated he would not allow his personal religus belefs to affect his position they were forced to remove the request for approval because the EU as a whole were going to VETO the entire cabinet because one man was a christian.

- This is completely incorrect.

The man was set to be EU commissioner for Justice FFS!

How could he not allow his personal views and prejuduces ti influence him in such a position? (....and there was a hell of a lot more to it than just the gay stuff..... including several less than enlightened comments about women and it being 'better' for all if they remain at home cooking etc).

Don't you know any of the actual and full story or did you just skim for headlines and 'points' which suited your prejudices?




[edit on 10-11-2004 by sminkeypinkey]

This is not about muslims There has never been any question there are millions of bad muslims .It is about the foundational document of Islam.
You cannot be a good muslim and a good person from a western POV.
Good muslims Kill for Allah.

What a crap topic,

Replying to topics like this only encourage further people to post other crap topics, most likely an ATS points grab.

What's next?

Should America invade Canada because the idea might generate some attention on ATS?

I'm going to go with 'no' on that one.

You contradict what you said earlier. Is it about Muslims, or isn't it? You said that ALL Muslims in their way work to spread Islam to the rest of the world. I said in return that the Muslims I've met in Africa are mainly trying to scrounge a living, and they're friends with anyone who'll help them do that.

From what I've seen, you have a quarrel with Islam as a religion. Please keep blanket characterizations of the Muslims out of it.

Also... when I see a thread like this, I'm always curious to know what the intent is. There's an accusation, that's for sure, but there's no statement of what action should be taken. Are you advocating containing Islam by closing America's doors to Muslims? Or making conversion to christianity a basic condition to immigration to the U.S.?

Originally posted by KAOSKTRL
Well The gospel Of christ does not require me to kill non christians Muslims doctrine does.

You do realize that its not permitted to post knowingly false information to this board right? So are you ignorant or just in violation of board rules? The Koran does not require muslims to kill non muslims. If you actually beleive somethign so incredibly stupid, then you obviously have absolutely no idea wtf you are talking about. Well, which is it? Are you completely and grossly uninformed, but still feel that you can pontificate on the subject, or are you just a dumb bigot spreading lies?

Originally posted by Otts
You contradict what you said earlier. Is it about Muslims, or isn't it? You said that ALL Muslims in their way work to spread Islam to the rest of the world. I said in return that the Muslims I've met in Africa are mainly trying to scrounge a living, and they're friends with anyone who'll help them do that.

From what I've seen, you have a quarrel with Islam as a religion. Please keep blanket characterizations of the Muslims out of it.

Also... when I see a thread like this, I'm always curious to know what the intent is. There's an accusation, that's for sure, but there's no statement of what action should be taken. Are you advocating containing Islam by closing America's doors to Muslims? Or making conversion to christianity a basic condition to immigration to the U.S.?

The contridiction only applies to a very small degree most muslims have know idea what islam is .
They are born into it and just go through the motions they are muslim as in christmas and easte rmuslims .
Islam is sedition it is about conquest

After this Pastor Scot referred to a letter to the editor in the Maccabean of September
14, 2001, p.3: from the OZ vilification of islam trial
A few years ago, just after arriving in Sydney from Cairo, the then Grand Mufti
of Australia was interviewed by a reporter from the Australian Jewish News.
The Mufti stated that the moment Australia becomes 51% Moslem, it will be a
Moslem country. The reporter asked him about the other 49% and he replied
that they would �convert or leave�.

[edit on 10-11-2004 by KAOSKTRL]

Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by KAOSKTRL
Well The gospel Of christ does not require me to kill non christians Muslims doctrine does.

You do realize that its not permitted to post knowingly false information to this board right? So are you ignorant or just in violation of board rules? The Koran does not require muslims to kill non muslims. If you actually beleive somethign so incredibly stupid, then you obviously have absolutely no idea wtf you are talking about. Well, which is it? Are you completely and grossly uninformed, but still feel that you can pontificate on the subject, or are you just a dumb bigot spreading lies?

Prove it.

Prove it? You've never read the koran have you? It clearly does not call on muslims to kill non muslims. Jews, christians, zorasterians, and hindus lived peacefully under theocratic islamic rule in the past.

YOU prove that it says this, you lying little slanderer. Good people can not and will not let pathetic pigs like you make these plainly false statements unopposed.