It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Originally posted by benrl
Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
reply to post by benrl
And you think that no education at all would be better for you somehow??
Where did I say that? Aloysius are you too a victim of the poor education system?
Reading comprehension fail? I don't blame you but the system you are supporting, AS I SAID we need to start this debate on how to fix the problem.
Which could include these types of discussion involving parental responsibility in the child's education as part of it.
All those "options" we have in America, still require my taxes to being dumped into a broken wasteful system.
IT needs to be overhauled from the ground up, and that includes the laws surrounding it.
Originally posted by alfa1
After reading the blog posting and two news articles, its clear that the headline is misleading.
He doesnt wish to "end compulsory education" completely.
I believe it is time to change how we approach public education in Utah. In my view, we should take a close look at repealing compulsory education.
Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
Originally posted by benrl
Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
reply to post by benrl
And you think that no education at all would be better for you somehow??
Where did I say that? Aloysius are you too a victim of the poor education system?
Reading comprehension fail? I don't blame you but the system you are supporting, AS I SAID we need to start this debate on how to fix the problem.
wher did I say you said anything?
I did not say you thought no education would be better - I asked you if you thought it would be better.
And it seems that yes, you are a victim.
Which could include these types of discussion involving parental responsibility in the child's education as part of it.
All those "options" we have in America, still require my taxes to being dumped into a broken wasteful system.
IT needs to be overhauled from the ground up, and that includes the laws surrounding it.
You are confused about what this guy is proposing - you have confused state education with compulsory education.
Currently you CAN have education outside the state system - you can go private or homeschool - but whichever you choose you must have SOME education.
this guy is proposing hat education should not be COMPULSORY - so parents would be free to choose to give their kids NO EDUCATION AT ALL.
As I have asked before - do you think this would make anything better?edit on 18-7-2013 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
reply to post by benrl
Whether a parent who might withdraw their child from school entirely under a non-compulsory system is doing a good job of parenting now would be speculation that I have no basis for making.
the mere fact that parents would be allowed to do so under a non compulsory system is bad enough.
You seem to be arguing that the education system should be better - which is not what this thread is about - it is about the complete stupidity of allowing children to go without any education at all - regardless of the state of the current system.
Originally posted by benrl
Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
reply to post by benrl
Whether a parent who might withdraw their child from school entirely under a non-compulsory system is doing a good job of parenting now would be speculation that I have no basis for making.
the mere fact that parents would be allowed to do so under a non compulsory system is bad enough.
You seem to be arguing that the education system should be better - which is not what this thread is about - it is about the complete stupidity of allowing children to go without any education at all - regardless of the state of the current system.
You understand that the first paragraph is exactly what you are doing in the first place right? Assuming that children with dismissive parents NOW are better than they would be in the proposed senators blog idea.
Next point, The argument the senator brings up is about making Education better in that blog post and that this might be away to do that.
here is a link to the original just in case you missed it.
Accountability of Parents
ETA, The fundamental difference here between our views is what we both perceive as the duty of government vs. the duty of parents and with this Ill shall depart this thread.
Originally posted by amfirst1
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
Actually, I support this idea. Education is used for indoctrination by the state. It's better to be home schooled and in many cases has better results.
"Right now, every single day, somebody is checking on these children in the state of Utah," she said. "Somebody is seeing them, somebody is a watchful eye."
Castle said ending compulsory education would affect far more than just culture. She also worried the tone of Osmond's article was indicative of the general sentiment in Utah's Legislature, which she said has continued to place responsibility for student success on teachers and schools while failing to provide adequate support or funding.
Before 1890, public education in America was viewed as an opportunity—not a legal obligation. Prior to that time, the parent was primarily responsible for the education of their children. The state provided access to a free education for those that wanted to pursue it. The local teacher was viewed with respect and admiration as a professional to assist a parent in the education of their child.
Some parents completely disengage themselves from their obligation to oversee and ensure the successful education of their children. Some parents act as if the responsibility to educate, and even care for their child, is primarily the responsibility of the public school system.
Unfortunately, in this system, teachers rarely receive meaningful support or engagement from parents and occasionally face retaliation when they attempt to hold a child accountable for bad behavior or poor academic performance.
Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
reply to post by amfirst1
This is not about homeschooling - you can do that already.
Or you an go to a private or charter school - you are not obligated to go to a state school.
this is about NO REQUIREMENT TO SCHOOL AT ALL.
First, we need to restore the expectation that parents are primarily responsible for the educational success of their own children. That begins with restoring the parental right to decide if and when a child will go to public school. In a country founded on the principles of personal freedom and unalienable rights, no parent should be forced by the government to send their child to school under threat of fines and jail time.
Second, we need to shift the public mindset to recognize that education is a not an obligation, but an opportunity to be treasured and respected. Utah’s constitution requires that we provide the opportunity for a free public education to every child. But public education is not free—it costs taxpayers billions each year. When a parent decides to enroll a child in public school, both the parent and child should agree to meet minimum standards of behavior and academic commitment or face real-life consequences such as repeating a class, a grade, or even expulsion.
Third, we need to stop dictating the number of hours a child must be present in a classroom. Instead of requiring that teachers and students must be in class for 990 hours a year, lets enable our local school boards to determine the best use of a teacher’s time and focus student and parent expectations on educational outcomes such as completing assignments and passage of exams as the measurement of success for the opportunity to progress in public school.
Finally, if a parent decides to keep their child home or to go on a family vacation, it’s the responsibility of that parent to ensure their child completes the assignments and stays current with their class. Similarly, if a child consistently misbehaves, it’s the teacher’s right to send that child home to their parent until he or she is ready to respect and appreciate their opportunity to be educated.
Originally posted by badgerprints
Ironic.
It seems like every thread that talks about public versus home schooling is the same.
There's always someone talking about how stupid home schooled kids would be.
Usually the one talking the most can't spell or use proper grammar.