Revisit: The conspiracy of extreme theism

Abstract........

yes i do know and understand perfectly what Universal means.........
Another word for ''Catholic''(not nessasary the religion).........Universal...........The whole of mankind!!!

Why are you defyning the word to me???

Originally posted by helen670
Abstract........

yes i do know and understand perfectly what Universal means.........
Another word for ''Catholic''(not nessasary the religion).........Universal...........The whole of mankind!!!

Why are you defyning the word to me???

because of this statement

Yes abstract.......there are many paths to take.....but the path you take will lead to many individual truths.......not one universal truth...........

Originally posted by Gazrok
"God sends His only begotten Son to lead a perfect life"

Bumming around with your buds, and a prostitute....sounds good to me too...don't know if it's "perfect" though....

Brutally Honest

abstract..........what answer do you want me to give?

I believe in one truth for the whole of mankind!

individual truths are many! As there are many individual man made religions.........that talk of ''God''............each telling us that they all lead to the 'Truth''

So in actual fact , there can only be one ''Universal truth''........

Yes, Abstract, I have read your quotes, as well as another_ones', but anyone can take quotes from a website whose mission is to keep people from accepting Christ.

No, there is only one way, there is only One who could pay the price for our sin and keep us from sharing the same fate as Satan.

If there was any other way do you think God's only begotten Son would have died?

If there's been another way, would you sacrifice your son?

Take all the quotes you want, when one actually reads the Bible with the help of the Holy Spirit and truly searches for God, the facts are plain and simple.

When you think you're going to read God's book without God in order to prove Him wrong, it'll be a mystery to you. It even says it's a mystery.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Yes, Abstract, I have read your quotes, as well as another_ones', but anyone can take quotes from a website whose mission is to keep people from accepting Christ.

No, there is only one way, there is only One who could pay the price for our sin and keep us from sharing the same fate as Satan.

If there was any other way do you think God's only begotten Son would have died?

If there's been another way, would you sacrifice your son?

Take all the quotes you want, when one actually reads the Bible with the help of the Holy Spirit and truly searches for God, the facts are plain and simple.

When you think you're going to read God's book without God in order to prove Him wrong, it'll be a mystery to you. It even says it's a mystery.

I'm not trying to prove GOD wrong!?!?! If anything i try to prove his existance now not 200 years ago. The quote are as plain as day. I study the bible. It's obvious that you don't

And that site you were talking about is another_ones site. He actually read the bible and got thoses quotes. Helen at least trys to back up her arguments with quotes from the bible. Are you going to say that she is trying to prove GOD wrong.

[Edited on 18-5-2003 by abstract_alao]

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
If there was any other way do you think God's only begotten Son would have died?

If there's been another way, would you sacrifice your son?

Who killed "Jesus"?!?!? Man did...well actually Romans. In fact "Jesus" wasn't the only person to die on a cross. This was the tool of torcher used by the Romans who we glorify in this society. D.C is proof enough of this and the Roman Catholic Church

If you ask me this is a slap in the face to your Lord...

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Yes, Abstract, I have read your quotes, as well as another_ones', but anyone can take quotes from a website whose mission is to keep people from accepting Christ.

Quotes from a website? You mean the Bible lol. And btw, it's my site.

No, there is only one way, there is only One who could pay the price for our sin and keep us from sharing the same fate as Satan.

Obviously haven't read the site/the Bible. There is not only One way. Keep in mind, this is according to YOUR book.

If there was any other way do you think God's only begotten Son would have died?

If there's been another way, would you sacrifice your son?

God is omnipotent, no sacrifice is needed for erasing sins. Perhaps you're also unaware that the "begotten son" title was given to others as well, but that's beside the point.

Take all the quotes you want, when one actually reads the Bible with the help of the Holy Spirit and truly searches for God, the facts are plain and simple.

First, the "quotes" are from your Bible, second, the Trinity is not taught in the Bible, third; I agree - someone searching for God realizes the facts.

When you think you're going to read God's book without God in order to prove Him wrong, it'll be a mystery to you. It even says it's a mystery.

A book enforcing the strong ruling over the weak, promoting enslavement of human beings, condeming equality between man, degrading women and disallowing freedom of religion is not the book of God.

I simply cannot and will not believe in a man-made religion (Christianity) that teaches these things and more.

Peace.

I used to be one of those Christian freaks also. Believing in Jesus and believing only Christians will go to heaven. But I was also aware that there were Jews and Muslims. So what happens to them? Can anyone here really imagine a heaven only of Christians?

I started reading more on Islam and thank God I found the truth and I found Christianity for the religion it is. I also read more on Malcolm X who literally tore Christians and Christianity into shreds. There's no discipline in Christianity, that's my motto.

Then I thought of something else. Why would God mislead his chosen people by sending down Jesus as the Son of God? There's a reason why Jews didnt believe in Jesus as the Son of God and that is because it was written in the Torah and the OT, books inspired by God himself that God is One and only One. No trinity. So did God mislead his people? That's when it dawned on me, Jesus wasnt the Son of God, he wasnt God. He was prophet who spread the message of love. He was a healer, performed many miracles and even raised the dead. He was a son of God, just like everyone else is. But he was not the Son of God.

And why does God need a Son? God is the Almighty and All Powerful. If he really had a Son, he wouldnt be the Almighty and All Powerful, feel me?

Islam is a combination of Judaism and Christianity. I believe Islam was sent because Christianity screwed up big time. Islam is the only religion of the three who recognize Jesus and the other prophets as Messengers of God. Christians pray to God when they need His help. "God, I have a headache," "God, please let me win the lottery." No discipline. I never seen or heard of a Christian who actually worships. Muslims worship.

As I got more into religion I started to realize the huge contradictions in the Bible supporting my belief that Jesus was only a prophet. "Only in his hometown is a prophet without honor." Can it get any more self-explantory than that? I dont think so.

Muslims keep Islam safe.

Al-Imran 3:55] (And remember) when Allah said: O Jesus! Lo! I am gathering thee and causing thee to ascend unto Me, and am cleansing thee of those who disbelieve and am setting those who follow thee above those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection.

Illmatic........can you explain this verse taken out of the Quran ?

Why is the ''Ressurection '' mentioned here???
Why is Jesus mentioned here???

First they believe!!!

Then Muhammed contradicts himself.....by denying that Jesus was crucified, died, and was raised alive from the dead!
[Maryam 19:33] Peace on me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the day I shall be raised alive! [Maryam 19:34] Such was Jesus, son of Mary: (this is) a statement of the truth concerning which they doubt.

Al-Imran 3:55] (And remember) when Allah said: O Jesus! Lo! I am gathering thee and causing thee to ascend unto Me, and am cleansing thee of those who disbelieve and am setting those who follow thee above those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection.

So Illmatic.........which is the 'truth''
It is from the Quran......

Well... I look away from this thread for a day or two and look what happens... it's back to the old Muslim v Christian and Christian v Muslim nonsense again.

Is this what you people always sink to... isn't there a better result of these discussions in which one can aspire?

What a waste of a group of otherwise reasonably intelligent people.

Originally posted by helen670
Al-Imran 3:55] (And remember) when Allah said: O Jesus! Lo! I am gathering thee and causing thee to ascend unto Me, and am cleansing thee of those who disbelieve and am setting those who follow thee above those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection.

Illmatic........can you explain this verse taken out of the Quran ?

Why is the ''Ressurection '' mentioned here???
Why is Jesus mentioned here???

First they believe!!!

Then Muhammed contradicts himself.....by denying that Jesus was crucified, died, and was raised alive from the dead!
[Maryam 19:33] Peace on me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the day I shall be raised alive! [Maryam 19:34] Such was Jesus, son of Mary: (this is) a statement of the truth concerning which they doubt.

Al-Imran 3:55] (And remember) when Allah said: O Jesus! Lo! I am gathering thee and causing thee to ascend unto Me, and am cleansing thee of those who disbelieve and am setting those who follow thee above those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection.

So Illmatic.........which is the 'truth''
It is from the Quran......

Helen, I really dont understand what your asking here. Are you questioning the authority of Jesus in the Qur'an? Muslims believe in Jesus. He's the Messiah and he will return in the second coming and when he comes back the Judgment Day will be upon us.

Why was Jesus mentioned in the Qur'an? Well because he was one of the greatest prophets. He's mentioned more than Muhammad is in the Qur'an. About the Resurrection. I myself do believe in the Resurrection, I cant speak for other Muslims. And Muhammad did not contradict himself. Muhammad didnt even write the Qur'an. The entire Qur'an came from God himself, so there are no contradictions whatsovever.

I want you think about this and answer it if you can.

Muhammad was the last Prophet sent down by God. The last MAJOR Prophet.

Name me someone else who came after Muhammad as great as Muhammad who spread the word of God.

Originally posted by Illmatic67
I want you think about this and answer it if you can.

Muhammad was the last Prophet sent down by God. The last MAJOR Prophet.

Name me someone else who came after Muhammad as great as Muhammad who spread the word of God.

I'm thinking , thinking ...........Illmatic..........

Was it Brian???

Ok, sorry about that!!!
I wont joke!!!

Illmatic i dont know!!!
Muhammed was in the 6th century right?
That is all i know..............

Born: 570
Died: 640

Go on .............who was it???


I have not accepted Muhammed as a man of 'rightousness''

Was that the Answer???

Muhammed spoke of God............but denying the divinity of Jesus Christ , when the Quran sais otherwise ..........

How can one part in the Quran speak of Jesus as Taken up to heaven.............and then deny the whole thing???

Muhammed, if he was a prophet from God........why did he not show any resemblance to the qualities and teachings of Jesus ???

Muhammed's death was mortal.....bodily death...
Jesus Christ's death was immortal.........He resurrected....in His body and became immortal and eternal.....for all mankind.........

Originally posted by helen670
Al-Imran 3:55] (And remember) when Allah said: O Jesus! Lo! I am gathering thee and causing thee to ascend unto Me, and am cleansing thee of those who disbelieve and am setting those who follow thee above those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection.

Illmatic........can you explain this verse taken out of the Quran ?

Why is the ''Ressurection '' mentioned here???
Why is Jesus mentioned here???

First they believe!!!

Then Muhammed contradicts himself.....by denying that Jesus was crucified, died, and was raised alive from the dead!
[Maryam 19:33] Peace on me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the day I shall be raised alive! [Maryam 19:34] Such was Jesus, son of Mary: (this is) a statement of the truth concerning which they doubt.

Al-Imran 3:55] (And remember) when Allah said: O Jesus! Lo! I am gathering thee and causing thee to ascend unto Me, and am cleansing thee of those who disbelieve and am setting those who follow thee above those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection.

So Illmatic.........which is the 'truth''
It is from the Quran......

It also say in the koran that Jesus didn't die on the Cross

Originally posted by abstract_alao

Originally posted by helen670
Al-Imran 3:55] (And remember) when Allah said: O Jesus! Lo! I am gathering thee and causing thee to ascend unto Me, and am cleansing thee of those who disbelieve and am setting those who follow thee above those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection.

Illmatic........can you explain this verse taken out of the Quran ?

Why is the ''Ressurection '' mentioned here???
Why is Jesus mentioned here???

First they believe!!!

Then Muhammed contradicts himself.....by denying that Jesus was crucified, died, and was raised alive from the dead!
[Maryam 19:33] Peace on me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the day I shall be raised alive! [Maryam 19:34] Such was Jesus, son of Mary: (this is) a statement of the truth concerning which they doubt.

Al-Imran 3:55] (And remember) when Allah said: O Jesus! Lo! I am gathering thee and causing thee to ascend unto Me, and am cleansing thee of those who disbelieve and am setting those who follow thee above those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection.

So Illmatic.........which is the 'truth''
It is from the Quran......

It also say in the koran that Jesus didn't die on the Cross

Yes i do know that abstract.............(it is not new to me)

But can you answer me why it sais one thing?
And then changes to say something else???

Why does it believe in that the virgin Mary (Theotokos) gave birth as a virgin eg.......
al-Baqarah 2:253] Of those messengers, some of whom We have caused to excel others, and of whom there are some unto whom Allah spake, while some of them He exalted (above others) in degree; and We gave Jesus, son of Mary, clear proofs (of Allah's Sovereignty) and We supported him with the Holy Spirit.

And then..........

al-Ma'idah 5:46] And We caused Jesus, son of Mary, to follow in their footsteps, confirming that which was (revealed) before him in the Torah, and We bestowed on him the Gospel wherein is guidance and a light, confirming that which was (revealed) before it in the Torah - a guidance and an admonition unto those who ward off (evil).

And also..................
[Al-Imran 3:46] He will speak unto mankind in his cradle and in his manhood, and he is of the righteous.
[Al-Imran 3:47] She said: My Lord! How can I have a child when no mortal hath touched me ? He said: So (it will be). Allah createth what He will. If He decreeth a thing, He saith unto it only: Be! and it is.
[Al-Imran 3:48] And He will teach him the Scripture and wisdom, and the Torah and the Gospel,
[Al-Imran 3:49] And will make him a messenger unto the Children of Israel, (saying): Lo! I come unto you with a sign from your Lord. Lo! I fashion for you out of clay the likeness of a bird, and I breathe into it and it is a bird, by Allah's leave. I heal him who was born blind, and the leper, and I raise the dead, by Allah's leave. And I announce unto you what ye eat and what ye store up in your houses. Lo! herein verily is a portent for you, if ye are to be believers


They point to conflicting accounts about who Jesus is and what He did..........There is contradictory evidence that Jesus was to die and to be raised alive in one verse, and the denial that he ever was crucified in another remote verse, but was rather taken up to heaven.

casue your reading it wrong. check out what I posted in Jesus is kool

Originally posted by William
Well... I look away from this thread for a day or two and look what happens... it's back to the old Muslim v Christian and Christian v Muslim nonsense again.

Is this what you people always sink to... isn't there a better result of these discussions in which one can aspire?

What a waste of a group of otherwise reasonably intelligent people.

What to expect from extremist on both sides. That's why i try not to bound my self with earthly religions