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Low Self-Worth Motivates ATS Trolls and Haters

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posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 03:10 PM
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Dear ATSers,


Narrator: You're traveling through another dimension, a dimension not only of sight and sound but of mind. A journey into a wondrous land whose boundaries are that of imagination. That's the signpost up ahead - your next stop, the Twilight Zone!


The Twilight Zone of the hurt and twisted mind is the land I propose to begin to explore with you. The mind of the troll, the person filled with hate, the poster who never has a kind word for anyone, but who blindly attacks, Attacks! ATTACKS!!, with an insatiable lust.

Perhaps, by identifying the cause, we can find an exit for those trapped in their hell of "A Twilight Zone."

Some possibilities. Are they just filled with a passion for a particular issue? Sometimes, but look at their words. Do they say "Allowing X to do Y will make extra costs for society and cause several harms?" Or do they say "We can't let X do anything. They're foul, corrupt people and should all be hung, or at least jailed?" One comment is reasonable, the other is not.

What pushes reason out of the mind of some? For some, they've never learned to use reason, and can only react emotionally. There is little that can be done for such a person by other posters. Cave Canem. Beware of the Dog.

But others have reason pushed out by emotion. Which emotion is it? It varies, I suppose. But one that has struck me recently is a feeling of inferiority, the belief that others are better people. If that feeling exists, there are only two ways I know of to deal with it, improve yourself, or destroy others.

How does a "Twilight Zone" poster (TZ) destroy others? You've all seen it. Attack the other person, not the idea. Call him immoral, or racist, or bigoted. Post whatever statements can be thought up to lower the value of the person, so that the TZ poster can see himself as a little higher than at least one person.

A less hate-filled problem arises from the same source. Here, a TZ poster assumes a position of superiority by saying things like "Oh, you're one of those naive people who still believes there is any difference at all between the two parties? Well, I'm superior to everyone, because I know the truth. I'm not fooled." Or "Do you really think there is anything this President can do? I have the superior knowledge that informs me there are three men in Vienna who make the President do anything they want him to. You're so ignorant." Here, the attempt is a slimy, snarky way to tear down people instead of just a frontal attack, but low self-respect is the cause here as well.

There is a cure, if the TZ is willing to take it. Study, learn, and think. Raise himself up by work until he knows he has something worth saying and has no need to be embarassed in saying it. At that point it's not to hard for the former TZ poster to say "I'm better than some and worse than some. That sounds about right. I'll keep learning what to do from people better than I am, and learning what not to do from the people who are worse."

There is a type of poster who is driven by hate, but it's not as clearly a self-worth problem, though it may be. Consider a person who is injured in some way by a person from group X. That group could be police, criminals, men, women, Jews, Arabs, Gays, straights, any group. When the subject of group X, comes up the trigger is pulled and hateful statements flow fast and free.

That's understandable and, at first, simple to explain. But sometimes there is a conversation buried deep in the victim's mind. "If I had been a better, stronger, smarter, well armed, person, I wouldn't have been victimized." That's a thought that feeds into low self-worth. Yes, I know that's irrational most of the time, but for the TZ poster, rationality was abandoned long before.

So, now you have my thoughts on trolls and haters. I'd be grateful if you added yours so we can come to a better understanding.

With respect,
Charles1952




posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 03:18 PM
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Before I post I ask myself if I am supporting freedom and the rights of others?

I might totally disagree with a person, but still support their rights.

Heck, I even respect people I disagree with because at least the are passionate about SOMETHING.

I think you are correct though, putting a little thought into something before posting can go a long way. People used to be civil and respectful, even when arguing. Whatever happened to that?
edit on 2013/7/13 by Metallicus because: corrected auto correct



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 03:22 PM
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Some people don't see people online as 'real' thinking human beings. So they treat them as they see, letters on a computer screen.

I've never seen a person speak to someone how they do online, unless they carry the label of a 'lout' with them. I take into consideration people like sociopaths and psychopaths as well, whose sole purpose is to sew discord among friends to see how they all react to each other. It's a game to most trolls. They're self worth is obviously low or they wouldn't feel the need to belittle another human being. The problem with their line of 'work' is that it leads to more self hatred and more self esteem issues until they end up saying something completely and utterly devastating to someone, making them commit suicide.

Here on ATS there's a fair amount of intolerance, but I wouldn't really call it trolling. It's as you say a superiority complex. I've been attacked many times for my, albeit, crazy worldview. But personal insults flow freely and it hurts, it really does...... People will be people I suppose.



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 03:26 PM
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reply to post by Metallicus
 

Dear Metallicus,


I think you are correct though, putting a little thought into something before posting can go a long way. People used to be civil and respectful, even when arguing. Whatever happened to that?
People tend to do what is most rewarding. There was a time when having a reputation as a thoughtful, wise, respectful, gentleman was an extremely valuable thing. When "What would your Mother say if she saw you doing that?" was a powerful social argument. Now?

The position I believe some are taking is "I want to feel good, I want it now and all the time, and it's my right." The desire to feel good, I think, is where the low self-esteem comes in. They feel bad about themselves and want to change that feeling. Unfortunately they often choose bad ways to do it.

With respect,
Charles 1952



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 03:33 PM
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Hi Chuck


I think a lot of it stems from not wanting to learn anything new. Its scary to not just admit we dont know much, but to truly recognize that and understand it is almost an entirely different "thing."

From my perspective, it is sourced in competition based in destruction. Where "victory" is achieved subjectively, and as a result of tearing anothers ideas down enough that it makes our own ideas (or lack of them) seem more valid.

I think the reasons behind this could be anything from self-worth, to carrying out our cultural story, to justification of apathy (and probably many more).

I think the only way to change it is to change ourselves though.



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 03:36 PM
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reply to post by Joneselius
 

Dear Joneselius,


Some people don't see people online as 'real' thinking human beings. So they treat them as they see, letters on a computer screen.
I agree, but this requires that they must ignore or reject reality. There is nothing more important in this world than an individual and his ultimate fate. To pretend otherwise is either ignorance or a willful disregard for humanity.

What would drive someone to this point? Maybe the insanity of psychopaths and sociopaths, thanks for bringing them up. Maybe it's a belief that everything, including other people, are just worthless compared to their own desires. (See pornography and rape, for example.)


They're self worth is obviously low or they wouldn't feel the need to belittle another human being. The problem with their line of 'work' is that it leads to more self hatred and more self esteem issues until they end up saying something completely and utterly devastating to someone, making them commit suicide.
Excellent point. Thanks again for adding to the discussion.


I've been attacked many times for my, albeit, crazy worldview. But personal insults flow freely and it hurts, it really does.....
Yeah, I know. My sincere sympathy.


People will be people I suppose.
Further proof of the doctrine of Original Sin and the need for Mankind to be redeemed.

With respect,
Charles1952



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 03:50 PM
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reply to post by Serdgiam
 

Dear Serdgiam,


I think a lot of it stems from not wanting to learn anything new. Its scary to not just admit we dont know much, but to truly recognize that and understand it is almost an entirely different "thing."
Do you think that this hatred might be based in fear? The fear that we might learn we're not as smart as we thought, therefore not as good as we thought? I don't happen to have that feeling myself, but it's certainly possible. But why would that cause the hatred? I would think, as you say, that it would result in the "justification of apathy." Running away from any situation that might present new knowledge or people.


I think the only way to change it is to change ourselves though.
I agree, but if we identify a source of the problem, doesn't that open up an approach on how to change it? How do we raise someone's self-esteem without using a cheap, meaningless gimmick (a participation trophy, so to speak) that anyone can see through?

With respect,
Charles1952

P.s. I think I've got an idea, but I'll have to mull it over. - C -

P.p.s Where did "mull it over" originate?

P.p.p.s Oh, look, a squirrel!



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 04:14 PM
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Honestly, I think it's just the nature of the internet. A lot of factors crucial to constructive communication are absent over the internet. Subtle ques like body language, tone of voice, eye contact, etc are completely absent. Because of these factors, I think it is easier for a person to "lash out" against someone else on the internet because communication errors are easy to make. It's easy to get the wrong message or to interpret something that someone else is saying improperly. Another factor that ties into this is the nature of the topics being discussed. We don't often (if ever) discuss topics with perfect strangers in our day to day lives that we do here on ATS. These sorts of topics are usually reserved for people you know personally whom you've already established a certain degree of trust with. That can go a long way towards facilitating constructive communication.

As for why some people are constantly negative and feel the need to tear others down on the internet, I think self worth could be one part of it, but not having positive coping mechanisms is another.

Some people use that sort of a behavior as a way to vent their frustrations due to the anonymous nature of the internet. You are far more likely to call someone an idiot over the internet than in person (where you could potentially face the consequence of getting your clock cleaned or worse). It's just human nature, and while the behavior shouldn't be excused, it should be expected if you are on the internet at all.



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 05:18 PM
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reply to post by charles1952
 
Good afternoon Charles!

I believe that part of the problem may result from unresolved issues stemming from childhood or young adulthood. Most of us have been bullied or at least made to feel inferior by the unfeeling comments of others at some time in our early lives. Most of us rise above such things and grow up to be responsible, compassionate adults. Unfortunately there are others who have allowed the feelings to fester and carry with them feelings of low self-esteem well into adulthood, sometimes for their entire lives.

When such people have been bullied and taunted steadily for extended periods of time it teaches them that acting in such a manner gives one a feeling of power and control over another, even if the feeling is mostly false and exists only in their own mind. In their disillusionment they feel that in order to give themselves self-worth they must make others feel just as they did, therefore gaining a feeling of power and control by causing others to feel inferior- in other words: the bullied become the bullies. For extreme example: Take an adult who was physically abused as a child. While being abused they felt helpless, powerless, while it seemed their abuser was powerful and in complete control. Chances are that once an adult either one of two things happen: Either they grow to be someone who would never dream of hurting a child in any way because they feel empathy OR they become abusers themselves out of a warped sense of turning the tables and being the one in power now.

My guess would be that people who belittle others and attempt to make them feel inferior online are those who have been victim of the same behaviors themselves. I have witnessed this just in my time here on ATS. There have been members who at one time were always courteous and respectful, but after numerous attacks by those who would make themselves feel superior by belittling others have changed and turned into the very people by whom they had previously been victimized. It is extremely similar to what happens in real life, but with the internet it seems more rampant because we are anonymous, our true identities hidden behind a computer screen where there is no risk of being punched in the mouth for our offenses. It really doesn't help to lessen the behavior when such behavior is often rewarded with stars and flags by those of the same mind set.

I applaud your efforts in starting this thread Charles. Maybe those of us who take time to read it will take a moment of pause and remember it the next time our imperfect human nature tempts us to display such unbecoming behavior!

Respect and Love, littled16



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 05:34 PM
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reply to post by charles1952
 





The position I believe some are taking is "I want to feel good, I want it now and all the time, and it's my right." The desire to feel good, I think, is where the low self-esteem comes in. They feel bad about themselves and want to change that feeling. Unfortunately they often choose bad ways to do it.


Thank you for your heart filled message in response to my post, I hope I'm not offending you by quoting from another response. But I believe this to be the crux of the issue. That feelgood factor that is often felt by people (me included at times) whereby we see others struggling and we can't help but feel that "Oh thank God that's not me", and we simply observe their misery to compare it to our own, passively that is. We don't offer the help or advice we know we should give freely because then our passive observation becomes a personal, self reflective action. God forbid we look in the mirror and realise we're all unhappy, and if only a little more human contact and compassion was thrown our way, maybe we'd all be better off.

The problem I see with the solution is, it takes a martyr. A martyr that's going to be ridiculed and passed off as weak and needy. This martyr will play to all our subconscious minds, cut us deep, but will be alone, desperately so - this given that everyone hates a mirror. Until people can, as you say, revert to this dictum that mothers know best and family ties count, we're not going to see much change.

The world's an increasingly isolated place, and I fear that people will say anything to be noticed, the consequences be damned. Isolation does horrendous things to the psyche of a vulnerable human population. One is desensitization to violence because the empathy needed to 'relate' isn't there. Maybe that's the problem too?

Or we could go with the latter approach, the realist one. That being, you don't know a mans real face until you let him hide it. Power always works from behind a curtain, maybe this is people's way of 'grabbing power' from a world that offers them none.
edit on 11/10/2012 by Joneselius because: (no reason given)

edit on 11/10/2012 by Joneselius because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 05:38 PM
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reply to post by DeadSeraph
 

Dear DeadSeraph,

I know you took an uncalled for pounding in another thread. I also know that you're a reasonable guy, not given to hatred yourself. Because of those things, I'm particularly glad you took the time to offer your thoughts.


Honestly, I think it's just the nature of the internet. A lot of factors crucial to constructive communication are absent over the internet. Subtle ques like body language, tone of voice, eye contact, etc are completely absent. Because of these factors, I think it is easier for a person to "lash out" against someone else on the internet because communication errors are easy to make. . . . You are far more likely to call someone an idiot over the internet than in person (where you could potentially face the consequence of getting your clock cleaned or worse).
I quite agree. When the benefits of doing something are greater than the costs, we tend to do it. The internet lowers the cost of being rude or hateful, so more people do it.


As for why some people are constantly negative and feel the need to tear others down on the internet, I think self worth could be one part of it, but not having positive coping mechanisms is another.
Do you think it is possible to teach positive coping mechanisms? Could other posters or management do it? And, as an aside, what do people have to cope with? Differing opinions? Or is it hopeless because:

It's just human nature, and while the behavior shouldn't be excused, it should be expected if you are on the internet at all.



These sorts of topics are usually reserved for people you know personally whom you've already established a certain degree of trust with. That can go a long way towards facilitating constructive communication.
You're right again, and that's a big reason why I try to keep my reputaion as clean as possible. I want to have conversations with people, but if I get known as a rabid hater, those conversations won't happen.

With respect,
Charles1952



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 06:08 PM
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reply to post by littled16
 

Dear littled16,

This thread wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for you, so please take any credit for whatever good comes from it. (The mistakes are mine.)

I am really taken aback by the quality of the posts in this thread. Unlike many threads, those of you who chose to add your wisdom have avoided insults, hatred, and empty superficial comments. It's times likes this that make me feel privileged to share your company. Thank you.


. . . Most of us have been bullied or at least made to feel inferior by the unfeeling comments of others at some time in our early lives. . . . Unfortunately there are others who have allowed the feelings to fester and carry with them feelings of low self-esteem well into adulthood, sometimes for their entire lives.
This, plus the rest of your post, indicates to me that the place to stop this cycle is before children become teenagers. Is that what you're thinking? If so, what tools do we have available to stop it? And here, I'm a little discouraged. We don't have nearly universal two-parent homes anymore, schools don't teach behavior or ethics, churches are ridiculed or ignored, the government tries to put "anti-bullying" laws in place, but they seem to be useless at best or even counter-productive.

Do we, as mature adults have the duty to try to change this behavior, since no one else seems to be able to? Let me tell you a little story that happened to me.

I was in a Dollar Store and in the same aisle, a little ahead of me, was a woman and her child, a boy about 8 years old. He was playing with the toys on the rack, and he pushed one off to the floor. It fell with a clatter and the mother turned to see what had happened. The kid turned to his mother and said "It just fell." I spoke up and said "It did not, you knocked it to the floor." Do I need to describe the attack that the mother unleashed on me?

This eventually creates the belief "Well, it's none of my business," and everyone starts ignoring hateful behavior. Perhaps all we can do is point it out when it occurs (braving the mother's wrath) and hope that a seed is planted. I really hope so, because as you point out, here on ATS haters can convert normal people to haters and bullies. I really want to hope that it can happen the other way around.

With respect,
Charles1952



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 06:29 PM
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reply to post by Joneselius
 

Dear Joneselius,

May I say first that you are remarkably insightful? Welcome to ATS. If I might make a suggestion, get to know the people who are posting here. Check their threads, send U2Us, anything that helps create a community with you and reasonable, thoughtful, caring, people. There are times, believe me, when I have needed encouragement and comfort. There are people who have come through for me, offered me a cup of cold water. (And, no, I'm not offended by anything in this thread.)


We don't offer the help or advice we know we should give freely because then our passive observation becomes a personal, self reflective action. God forbid we look in the mirror and realise we're all unhappy, and if only a little more human contact and compassion was thrown our way, maybe we'd all be better off.
So, perhaps, we're afraid to get involved? Afraid that if we try to help an angry dog, he'll chew our arm off? Is that why we need the martyr, to sacrifice himself for others?

I know we have people like that in the world and, I suppose, on ATS. Outside of Mother Theresa of Calcutta, and perhaps a Pope now and then, aren't martyrs pretty much ignored? I know martyrs aren't in it for the recognition, but their stories don't get told. That makes it hard to inspire others, they have to work one at a time.


The world's an increasingly isolated place, and I fear that people will say anything to be noticed, the consequences be damned. Isolation does horrendous things to the psyche of a vulnerable human population. One is desensitization to violence because the empathy needed to 'relate' isn't there. Maybe that's the problem too?
I really like this paragraph, there's a lot there. Thanks.


Power always works from behind a curtain, maybe this is people's way of 'grabbing power' from a world that offers them none.
Let me get a little mystic for a second. The power that they're grabbing always seems to be the power to destroy - lives, feelings, peace, whatever is good. Each of us, as you say, has the power of accepting martyrdom, or servanthood, to rebuild damaged lives. That is real power. The power the world offers is empty or destructive.

Now, how to teach that lesson?

With respect,
Charles1952



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 06:58 PM
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reply to post by charles1952
 
The credit is all yours Charles, and Bravo for delving into the subject!

I think we have a little bit of a different problem with the next generation. Their problem is not too little self esteem but too much of it in many cases. The children that are brought up with the the belief that each is more special than the rest and that everyone is a winner and that they can literally do no wrong. When these kids grow up they are in for an extremely rude awakening, where they will find that everyone is not a winner, there are always going to be those better than them in various skills, and yes, they CAN do wrong. My children grew up in the first batch of these kids (in their 20s now) and it took everything that we had to de-program at home what they were taught in school and at their extra-curricular activities and teach them about reality! Thankfully they are well adjusted adults now, but many of their peers have not fared so well.

Many of these children upon reaching adulthood have found that they are not as special as they were led to believe, and in adult life everyone cannot be a winner. They do not handle rejection well at all, and are more prone to depression when they fail. They cannot understand why things aren't as easy as they were in childhood with every desire met and an award for each action. They have not learned to handle rejection or being out performed. They experience feelings of inferiority and low self-esteem for the first time in their lives. Children that learn to handle rejection and feelings of inferiority at an early age learn to adjust and cope with their feelings much easier than someone experiencing such feelings in their late teens and early 20s. So now we have adults experiencing low self-esteem for the first time in their lives and since they ARE adults the parents are not there to teach them to cope. It is a recipe for disaster, and we are finding this out very quickly- especially through our internet interactions where anonymity provides the perfect playing field for lashing out at feelings of low self-esteem. The quickest way to get a "superiority" fix is to belittle others and make them feel inferior, especially when one has learned no other avenues with which to cope.

The solution? In my opinion you are correct in intervention at the childhood level, but not exactly in the manner you suggest. I believe if we go back to the way it once was- letting children learn that life isn't always fair and that not everyone is a winner but if you lose you can strive to become better- is the solution. Yes, there have always been bullies and those of low self-esteem, but when has it ever been as rampant as it is now? Letting them learn to lose gracefully and with dignity at a young age would be a great start I think.

Just my opinion though. I am by no means an expert but I honestly believe the issues I've brought up play into the situation a lot. I feel better for venting!

Always a pleasure Charles!
Respect and love, littled16



posted on Jul, 14 2013 @ 01:41 AM
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reply to post by charles1952
 


I did follow the thread that inspired this one, and even though it was closed (and we shall discuss closed threads no more), your points were very well received. There certainly was a lot of unfounded hatred and chest beating going on there over something some considered with a wry a smile, a "Yep. Been There," or at the worst, the public mudslinging match it devolved into.

This forum is a bane and a boon to both sides of the coin as that particular thread showed. You have your people which are willing to engage in intelligent discussion for or against, depending on both their viewpoint and their experiences, and are willing to accept their view is not neccessarily 100% set in stone. The problem is, once certain feathers get ruffled, it fast becomes a slinging match to stand on your opponent's head and beat your chest the hardest than it does to discuss the issue at hand. People seem to reach for the Troll handle when this happens, usually causing more upset and grief, and more standoffs until finally, it gets so out of control the thread is closed and has no hope of recovery.

Subjects such as that particular one always bring out what I call the extremists, the ones that have "that" view and no other, and god forbid trying to sway them with either reason or force. I recall a thread in my early days here about smacking children that really brought out the worst in a lot of people here, including myself. Despite this, a few of us with different viewpoints moved past the need to force our opinions onto the other, and we both walked away with a healthy respect and something new in the learning arsenal as a result.

End of the day I really don't bother engaging people who can't have a civil debate about anything. I've had everything here questioned by someone who just wants that upper rung at my expense, and as far as I'm concerned they can have it. If it makes them feel better about themselves when they go to bed, then it just shows their real character and their true nature by doing so.



posted on Jul, 14 2013 @ 02:02 AM
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reply to post by 74Templar
 

Dear74Templar,

Glad to meet you. I suspect you have a lot to teach me, comment any time you'd like.

Do you think we are at the stage where, on ATS, and perhaps the world, the "sane" people have to avoid the "mad dogs?" What would be the result of that? Would the "dogs" hunt down the "people" one by one as society keeps creating "dogs?" Or would the "people" gain strength from each other and go forth to conquer?

Sorry for the questions, but I am curious. Do you see a role for the martyrs mentioned earlier in the thread, or is that a suicide mission?

I have no idea how to avoid ruffling the feathers of people. Oh, I can avoid the obvious stuff, but there's a lot of biting the tongue and rewording involved. Is that simply the price we pay for being "people" instead of "dogs?"

I'm really looking forward to your thoughts.

With respect,
Charles1952



posted on Jul, 14 2013 @ 02:31 AM
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Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by 74Templar
 



Glad to meet you. I suspect you have a lot to teach me, comment any time you'd like.


I follow your posts quite often. I tend to stay hidden away in the locked forums or the avatar creations thread these days, for obvious reasons.
I do believe however, that everyone that is willing, has something to learn from everyone in life they cross paths with. I frequently learn things from people much older than me, and even my own children. The one thing in life I firmly believe is from cradle to grave, you never stop learning, and people who are know-it-alls generally know the least.


Do you think we are at the stage where, on ATS, and perhaps the world, the "sane" people have to avoid the "mad dogs?" What would be the result of that? Would the "dogs" hunt down the "people" one by one as society keeps creating "dogs?" Or would the "people" gain strength from each other and go forth to conquer?


On one hand, it's human nature to be competetive. Without that nature, mankind would still be living in caves picking fleas off each other's backs.
The problem is view. I have noticed, and of course this is not a reflection of all, but each new generation comes with it's own sense of self-entitlement, that as time and our way of life has improved, so has that sense.

A good example is the differences between generations when information is concerned. As a writer, I grew up endlessly living in libraries searching for reference material for my works, which was not the easiest thing to come by. In order to complete a subject properly it took time, patience, and the know how to ask the right questions.

Nowadays, you want to know what happened on May 5th 1967, you just type that information (or any others) into Google, Yahoo, or any of the thousands of other search engines, and you immediately have that which previously took weeks, sometimes months of study to acheive. Basically there's no effort involved, which the younger generations have gotten used to, having everything delivered right away with no delay. As a result the desire for effort is lessened, and there is born the self-entitlement issues we see today. People begin to think, "well this works for everything, so real life mus be like that too." That's where it all falls apart for most people.


Sorry for the questions, but I am curious. Do you see a role for the martyrs mentioned earlier in the thread, or is that a suicide mission?

Questions are signs of an intelligent mind.
I'm not really sure what you mean exactly by martyrs, but the way I see it, is sometimes you just gotta stick to your guns when you truly believe. It just so happens the guy standing next to you may not think that way. It doesn't automatically make him, or his view, wrong.

As I said in my last post, I had a particular stance on the subject of smacking children, he had another. We argued, and I mean argued that our views were right. We both had kids, we both had an entirely different way of disciplining them, but through that argument, we both learned something about the other's position and why they held that stance. By the end of it all, we both understood the why of our views, and were satisfied that we both loved our kids equally, and would no doubt die to protect them, but saw different ways when it came to discipline. His kids are very well adjusted, as are mine, but we both learned something new.


I have no idea how to avoid ruffling the feathers of people. Oh, I can avoid the obvious stuff, but there's a lot of biting the tongue and rewording involved. Is that simply the price we pay for being "people" instead of "dogs?"


The short answer is, there is no way. The more complicated answer is to learn how to spot people who are genuinely interested in healthy debate while learning something new, or those who are so blinded by their own sense of self-worth their path is the only path. Harder to do on the internet than in RL, but I follow a lot of posts here and see for myself every day here those who can keep a civil tongue and an open mind, and those who just run everyone down for the Lulz as the kids say...


It's easier to follow them down their path and chestbeat along with them, and it is harder to suck it up and just walk away, because these type of people always think they've won if you do. I had a rather nasty message from a certain member after refusing to engage his retort to what I considered a joke. He thought he'd won by me, deleting my reply. I considered myself the better person for not lowering myself in what most likely would have been removed later on anyway by the staff. Once you can see those things, it becomes easy which battles to charge into, and which to avoid.



posted on Jul, 14 2013 @ 02:48 AM
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reply to post by 74Templar
 

Dear 74Templar,

Forgive me for giving your post such short shrift (wherever that phrase comes from), but it's just about 3 a.m. here and I'm getting a little goofy. I'll do a better job tomorrow (today?).

About the concept of "martyr." It comes from this post a little earlier in the thread:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
The poster wrote:

The problem I see with the solution is, it takes a martyr. A martyr that's going to be ridiculed and passed off as weak and needy. This martyr will play to all our subconscious minds, cut us deep, but will be alone, desperately so - this given that everyone hates a mirror. Until people can, as you say, revert to this dictum that mothers know best and family ties count, we're not going to see much change.


May I thank you for your contribution? I'm not sure why it's happened, but I am really impressed with the quality of posts in this thread, and you have only raised the level. Thanks.

With respect,
Charles1952



posted on Jul, 14 2013 @ 12:12 PM
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reply to post by charles1952
 


I've noticed I only troll when I've hit rock bottom and I'm down in the dumps (which isn't often, but I'm human.) I think it's just a case of projection. We usually aren't aware of how we channel our personal pain into a weapon to be used on others.

If we cannot elevate ourselves, we seek to tear down others. Simple as that
It is a totally unconscious act, I believe.
edit on 14-7-2013 by NarcolepticBuddha because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 14 2013 @ 12:35 PM
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Originally posted by NarcolepticBuddha
reply to post by charles1952
 

It is a totally unconscious act, I believe.


Do you believe that you have no choice in your own actions? At what point did you give up your power?



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