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Democracy and freedom does NOT take away your right to practice Islam. The PROBLEM is with you not realizing that!!! Be Muslim! No one cares! STOP hating on Westerners who don't want to participate!!!!!
When Paki schools start teaching ALL religions, I'll relax. When Saudis allow 'evolution' to be taught in their schools, I'll relax. YOU YELLING AT US and telling us your "analysis" of our minds is NOT HELPING!!!
A further assumption is then added - people are basically good, and have an innate need to make themselves and the world better. The humanistic approach emphasizes the personal worth of the individual, the centrality of human values, and the creative, active nature of human beings. The approach is optimistic and focuses on noble human capacity to overcome hardship, pain and despair.
We moved on from outright religious control a long time ago.
In the course of the ninth century, a translation movement sponsored by various sectors of society led to the translation into Arabic of most of the Greek scientific works, including a large number of Greek works of medicine and pharmacology. Many of the early translators were Syriac- speaking Christians who were able to deal with Greek manuscripts either directly or through intermediary Syriac translations. Illustrious scholars like Hunayn ibn Ishaq, his son Ishaq and his nephew Hubaysh produced highly refined, precise, and scientific translations of numerous Greek original works of science medicine. In addition to the major encyclopedic works produced by such scholars as al-Razi (Latin Rhazes, d. 925 AD) and Ibn Sina (Latin Avicenna, d. 1037 AD), whose works were translated into Latin as early as the twelfth century, and continued to be studied through the second half of the seventeenth century, the major Islamic discoveries and contributions to the field of medicine include: 1) The introduction of new fields of medical research and clinical practice such as maternity, gynecology, embryology, pediatrics, dietary medicine, public health, and psychic medicine. 2) The diagnosis, treatment, and prevention of many new diseases such as smallpox and measles. 3) The qualitative development of the field of pharmacology beyond the comparatively limited earlier state of knowledge. 4) In contrast to the Greek tradition which excluded it, Muslims incorporated surgery into the study of medicine, and developed its practice and techniques. 5) The structure and organization of modern hospitals follows patterns established as early as the ninth century. Islamic hospitals had open admission policies for patients of all economic background, and regardless
of sex, religion, or ethnicity. They were
run by large administrative staff and could accommodate as many as 8,000 patients. They were separated into different wards by sex and nature of illness. Moreover, hospitals had their own pharmacies and facilities in which medicines were prepared, and each hospital had its own apprenticeship program where students obtained practical experience under the guidance of a physician.
Freedom of thought is something intrinsic in human nature.
our beliefs are more towards individual and collective human rights,
Originally posted by theabsolutetruth
reply to post by logical7
Again these are straw man arguments.
Collective human rights in such things as right to a fair trial, a womans right for not being 'owned' by a man and under his every command. The right for children to be safe instead of made child brides, the right for women to express their emotions, for example in dance if they choose to without fear of death, the right for women to not need to cover themselves almost entirely even in the baking heat, the right to question that which they are told though have no proof of, the right to equality, the right to exercise their own intellect and intuition to form their own opinions on the beliefs they were taught, the right to choose whom one considers friend or worthy of life, the right to life even if they do not believe in the belief they were told to, the right for having a choice.
One impression that emerges strongly is the extremely violent temper of the times. Passions seemed to have run high in those days; there are accounts here of either rulers or troublemakers who have had molten silver poured into their ears and eyes, or had their tongue fed to cats, or been forced to watch their chopped-off limbs being roasted in an oven. Caliph al-Ma'mum in 833 inaugurated an annual springtime offensive against Byzantium; one has to feel for the inhabitants of that city whenever April rolled round and they saw the caliph's army on the horizon again.
My interview has triggered a debate in the Sudanese media, both at home and in the diaspora, from which campaigns have emerged inciting people against me calling me a 'Kafira' (infidel) and 'Murtadda' (left Islam) . I guess Sudanese government officials have time to watch Channel 4 because the Sudanese Armed Forces' Facebook page posted my picture declaring me an infidel and apostate. Who knew that my private beliefs could denigrate a country's government, religion, and armed forces?!
It is important that we secularists demand not only a secular Britain, but also a secular Middle East, North Africa, and world. Sharia as such is a law of a religion with state power in many regions around the world. We have also witnessed in the last two years a grand hijacking by Islamists of the achievements of civil society in the Middle East. Not only that, but here in Britain there are now 85 Sharia councils implementing Sharia law on the streets of London, Birmingham, Bradford and elsewhere.
It is important for me to clarify what I mean by Sharia. To be precise, I am discussing the laws and legislation which are already in practice in the UK and abroad, not theoretical or utopian ideas that only exist in the minds of those who defend and are usually in favour of Sharia. The examples below include Islamic laws in countries around the world that claim to be implementing Sharia — the right Sharia — and are legislated based on the main sources in Islam, the Quran and Hadith, and sometimes in Fatwas. What is clear from an anthropological perspective is that these interpretations are performed by those in power and as a result the application and punishments associated with Sharia vary dramatically around the world.
Sharia discriminates against women (and Muslim women specifically): compared to feminist victories elsewhere, women are still not considered equal in most Islamic settings. A woman's testimony is worthy half a man's in Islam. She gets half the inheritance of her male siblings; a woman's marriage contract is between her male guardian and her husband. A man can have four wives and divorce his wife by simple repudiation using the word "Talig", whereas a woman must give specific reasons, some of which are extremely difficult to prove. Child custody reverts to the father at a pre-set age, even if the father is abusive. Women who remarry lose custody of their children.
Sharia discriminates against children. Not only does it affect children when they are young, but the implications will last their entire life. Top of the list is child marriage. Under Sharia law, a girl is eligible for marriage as soon as a girl begins her first period. This makes it difficult to maintain a minimum age for girls to be married. Considering there were at least five cases recorded in the London Borough of Islington (including girls of only 9 years old), I wouldn't bother to count the number of child marriages in Islamic states where it is legal.
Other discrimination against children that must be considered is the lack of exposure to different ideas and thoughts. Children from an Islamic background are often taught to close their minds to new ideas and some are brought up to hate their Jewish, Christian and Hindu classmates, as well as any gay students in their class.
In addition to my own experiences at school in Sudan, one can grab any school curriculum from an Islamic state see how it restricts critical thinking and any questioning of religious doctrine. Evolutionary theory is banned from most educational systems in Islamic states, as it contradicts the creationist story in the Quran. Sudanese professor, Faroque Ahmed Ibrahim, stated in his open letter that teaching evolution at University of Khartoum was among the main reasons he was tortured and imprisoned by the Sudanese government. Moreover, little girls are often taught from birth that they are 'lesser' human beings, which results in lower self-esteem and lack of confidence later in life.
Also i would say what i want to say and i don't need to be censored or even told how i should reply.
I don't think i am breaking any rules on ATS and if i am, a moderator can contact me and tell me so.
I am objecting to exporting democracy by force where people don't want it.
I am a Muslim and i don't care what others see it as.
I don't understand how an apostate automatically gets the authority to speak about what islam/sharia is?
Focusing on Islam and Sharia as such here is mainly because of my experience living under an Islamic regime. However, I strongly oppose Sharia law as well as any other religious based laws because I deeply believe in secular, humanist values which put each human being on an equal basis with every other individual. International human rights are a testament to that principle and stand directly opposed to the discriminatory practices enshrined in and justified by Sharia law.
For me, my atheism holds this broader meaning because I am taking a political stand to oppose mythology and advocate for evidence-based science and critical thinking.
My stand is a way of supporting freedom of expression, freedom of religion or no-religion.
I stand, indeed, for human rights in order to support equal rights for all citizens despite our gender, age, sexuality, religion or ethnicity.
I believe this is everyone's battle, including progressive, secular and liberal Muslims.
The right to live, think and express freely your opinions is one of the great achievements of human civilization.
These values belong to all of us regardless of our background or geographical regions.
We cannot limit these achievements to 'western values' or 'cultural sensitivity'.
Originally posted by theabsolutetruth
reply to post by logical7
There is plenty of proof of such actions, whether from 'apostates' or others.
I do not need to prove such things exist. The proof is reported all the time. Google 'sharia victims' and you will find plenty of proof. Are you advocating the violence against these victims?
[Aside from child marriage, o]ther discrimination against children that must be considered is
the lack of exposure to different ideas and thoughts.
Children from an Islamic background are often taught to close their minds to new ideas and some are brought up to hate their Jewish, Christian and Hindu classmates, as well as any gay students in their class.
In addition to my own experiences at school in Sudan, one can grab any school curriculum from an Islamic state see how it restricts critical thinking and any questioning of religious doctrine.
Evolutionary theory is banned from most educational systems in Islamic states, as it contradicts the creationist story in the Quran.
Sudanese professor, Faroque Ahmed Ibrahim, stated in his open letter that teaching evolution at University of Khartoum was among the main reasons he was tortured and imprisoned by the Sudanese government.
Moreover, little girls are often taught from birth that they are 'lesser' human beings, which results in lower self-esteem and lack of confidence later in life. It is however, the case with most other faith-based schools and education including Christianity and Judaism which, sadly, have the same 'holy-centralised' ideology.
Islamic tradition divides the world into two principal components, the House of Islam (Dar al Islam), and the House of War (Dar al Harb). The former is the Islamic world, and the latter is the land of the non-Muslims. This division is itself is provocative, divisive and encourages discrimination. The Dar al Harb is regarded as the House of War because it is expected that Islam will agitate in those areas in order to convert it to the House of Islam. Mechanisms that encourage sharia in that area are ones that are intended to facilitate that transformation. For this reason we separate our observatory based on these two components. The observatory will have separate sections for each component. Initiatives in Western countries that we believe will facilitate the spread of sharia into those areas will be highlighted in the Dar al Harb section. Sharia based human rights violation in the Islamic world will be highlighted in the Dar al Islam section.