The Terror Ties That Bind Us to War! Updated Info

Originally posted by edsinger
I am so glad that someone other than me is this ultra-liberal board will speak out against these folks who havent the first clue.

Haven't the first clue, eh? I find it difficult to believe you actually think I would take that statement seriously. And please lay off the labels, will you? Let's focus on the issues.

Durden is a smart guy, just misled and to keen to believe the "mainline" press. I do not fault him for it and he makes a damn good argument on the information he does use. He just lacks certain pieces is all.

If you've carefully reviewed my replies as well as my reasoning I'm sure you'll understand why I disagree with you. Also do note that my main sources absolutely aren't 'mainline press'.

As I have been saying, just as Cheney did "Because there ARE links between Saddam and Alqaeda and not just passing ones".

As stated previously, that's an incredibly vague statement by Mr Cheney. I would say this vagueness is quite deliberate on his part.

........as you can probably tell, I am damn ner hated here, but I do have fun!

I really don't think you're hated, edsinger. I know I don't hate you, though I certainly do disagree with you on quite a few issues.


[edit on 20-11-2004 by Durden]

So Brimstone, your not even speaking of the Iraq issue anymore. What would you support? some isolationist mentallity and pre 9/11 thinking? Whather its a belief system or not you have to fight em. This is no choice to be made, we kill them or they kill us. You have a very nieve way of looking at the world and military operations are just one means to an end. And for the most part your wrong about muslims, yes a small fraction of them are islamists, and yes in the back of their heads the typical muslims probably support the terrorists to a certain extent. But no it's not an "unwinnable war" and by you saying something so rediculous shows how much you truely understand on this topic. BTW, when people go around and call this an "unwinnable war" it emboldens the enemy and as a resault is truely treasonous. But seriously, what the hell would you suggest then? Building an impenetrable wall around the US, cut off trade and other economic relations and just let the enemy take over the rest of the world? That is untill they get to our boards then we will have a truely bloody strugle on our hands. What amazes me about people like you is you obviously are living in a cave. "If you want peace, prepare for war" You don't get rid of a God driven unconventional force by economic sanctions and diplomatic talk. They want us dead, D-E-A-D DEAD! So we either fight and kill them, or they will come here and poison and bomb our civilian men, woman, and children. I somtimes understand an argument against Iraq (not that I agree at all)... But your basically saying that this whole "war on terror" is a mistake and we should just ignore it? Who the hell are you Michael Moore? And we arn't trying to set up a puppet regime like with the shaw, thats just a matter of fact, it is in our best intrest to set up a legitimate Arab country over there that isnt bent on killing americans. And Iraq is also a traditionally secular country so its not like we are forcing our will upon religous zealots. And for the most part they were EXTREAMLY happy that we came, it's just that they wanted us to leave immediately afterwards. But in order to prevent future problems we HAVE to stay till there is a suitable military and police force being governend for and by Iraqis. Not to mention the fact that most of these people are either foreign insurgents or members of Saddam's Fedayeen. So perhaps, you can tell me what your "Genius" plan would be to fix this problem? And no ignoring a threat like this isn't a logical conclusion, its down right lunacy...

"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing" -Edmund Burke


[edit on 20-11-2004 by DASUSARMY]

They will have no path except capitulation. That is the only other choice.

We either fight it now when we are strong, or later when the odds are not so good.


And your comment about the 'attitudes' you see here as embolding the enemy, you are spot on. And yes I consider it treasonous to do things that 'assist' (or Kerryize) the enemy. It disgusts me as an American to see it but I am not surprised. The assault on the morality of our country began with people and actions like this..........

We will fall from within...................Unless we make it a crime to purposely harm ones own country. Free Speech is one thing, but Hanoi Jane got away with it, Kerry came damn close to the White House with it, What hopes to we as a nation have?

Originally posted by DASUSARMY
But no it's not an "unwinnable war" and by you saying something so rediculous shows how much you truely understand on this topic.
[edit on 20-11-2004 by DASUSARMY]

What's the point? I mean, really? You're not going to change your mind, I'm not going to change my mind. You think I'm traitor and a peacenik, and you couldn't be further from the truth.

We're going to lose and it's going be a disaster. People are going to wring their hands and soldiers are going to be blamed for it. The guys actually responsible are going to get away and make five grand a night on the lecture circuit.

Sucks to be you.

Originally posted by brimstone735
We're going to lose and it's going be a disaster. People are going to wring their hands and soldiers are going to be blamed for it. The guys actually responsible are going to get away and make five grand a night on the lecture circuit.

So it does not bother you in the slightest that you contribute with the "Were going to loose" attitude.

We will win this one way or another because we have to, even with you peacenicks that wish us to loose every chance you get.

SUCKS to be YOU!

1200 friends have been killed, so our multi national coorperate conglomerates can create succesful contracting ventures. the money will go to the ultra rich, share holding politicians. while our taxes and debts are hightened to relieve the inevitable looming economic turmoil. if you work, have a home, drive a car, purchase coorperate goods (ie; everything one would buy thats not privatly produced) or do anything involved with government you contribute to these wicked plots. also 50000 nameless muslims have lost their lives.

Originally posted by sturod84
1200 friends have been killed, so our multi national coorperate conglomerates can create succesful contracting ventures. the money will go to the ultra rich, share holding politicians. while our taxes and debts are hightened to relieve the inevitable looming economic turmoil. if you work, have a home, drive a car, purchase coorperate goods (ie; everything one would buy thats not privatly produced) or do anything involved with government you contribute to these wicked plots. also 50000 nameless muslims have lost their lives.

Well I guess you have been brainwashed well. It is not a corperate job, it is a war upon the Western world and its way of life....It starts in Iraq and if the moderate muslims can control or eliminate this "perversion" of the Koran, then the war will be over. If not, well...you will see many Iraq's. It is much more than Halliburton m8.

Well I guess you have been brainwashed well. It is not a corperate job, it is a war upon the Western world and its way of life....It starts in Iraq and if the moderate muslims can control or eliminate this "perversion" of the Koran, then the war will be over. If not, well...you will see many Iraq's. It is much more than Halliburton m8.

our way of life hrmmmm..............

mabye TV will open a portal into the enigma that is the western world, o dear god they are right!

*grumble* *grumble*.... im goin to the book store....



[edit on 20-11-2004 by sturod84]

Originally posted by sturod84


our way of life hrmmmm..............

mabye TV will open a portal into the enigma that is the western world, o dear god they are right!

So terror is the way to get rid of the 'evil' as you see it? What would be the difference if the West just started making glass out of all that sand? Would that be just as justified? I would say that terror is no way to get what you want and the West will never be Islamic........

u call me brainwashed lol

do you have any idea what these people have been putting up with over the last century? do you even listen to what they have to say? would you take into account any of their suggestions? do you think they could get an osama network on TV? christ we cant even manage to voice our own opinion with out being labeled traitors! good grief man you dont need to destabalize an entire nation to fight these people, the truth is neither of us know the entire story. one simple fact is the psy-ops are clear as day, and if you could make your way past the terror aspect you would realize the true terrorists our the men in the white house!

Originally posted by sturod84
true terrorists our the men in the white house!

Well I do not think so, you might but I do not.

I think you believe to many conspiracies.....

It amazes me that all these people complain and no one has a solution... So when you have your great idea get back to me, cause as of yet I'm still waiting for one.

Once again, WHAT WOULD YOU DO BRIMSTONE?

But seriously, they have pitty for these azz backwards massmurderers? 50000 unnamed muslims? what figure is that? Combatants? Who gives a damn about the enemy kill ratio. "Kill em all, let God sort em out" as the SEALs say.

The bottom line is either, we kill them, or they kill us. And if you don't like this country and think we are the most evil entity on earth as some of you seem to think, then get the fuk out... How about Canada? Maybe France? If you hate us so much, why do you live here?

It's true there is no point arguing though, you guys don't know whats going on and would like to paint the world in a rosie hue, but the fact remains here on earth that there are some REALLY BAD people. And if we don't kill them, they most certainly will kill us.

LOL!!!
Thats a fresh one, "It's a corprate job" hahahah... Seriously, it makes me laugh. These stupid college students with their idealistic out look on the world...
Anyway, this was not a way to get rich off of weapons contracts and oil...
Speaking of oil, that is the most rediculous claim around.. $50 Light Sweet Crude, and your telling me that we are there for oil? Good lord...
"The bad people are in the whitehouse" Just beause you don't know what evil is doesn't mean that the "big shots" are the bad guys.

I also might let you far-left people realize the truth when it comes to muslims and why they hate us. The Americans they hate the most are the amoral leftists that believe anything goes. They hate the right because we have the balls to fight em. But when it comes down to it, its your mentallity and way of life they hate us the most for.
These people are bent on world domination and unless we fight em its going to happen. Iraq wasnt for money or political gain. It did almost cost Bush the election btw... It was because Saddam was a insane despot that would glady assist terrorist masterminds like Bin Laden. He was an EVIL person who is responsible for over 1 million innocent MUSLIM deaths! So get real and understand that there are a lot of hidden agendas in this world, but Iraq wasnt one of them.
I find it amazing that some people come around and think they can erase thousands of years of history and create some new way of looking at the world... They never have solutions, just complaints and conspiracy theories.

Originally posted by DASUSARMYI also might let you far-left people realize the truth when it comes to muslims and why they hate us. The Americans they hate the most are the amoral leftists that believe anything goes. They hate the right because we have the balls to fight em. But when it comes down to it, its your mentallity and way of life they hate us the most for.

Boy did you nail that one! Of course they dont like the decadant American society and neither do Christians and the Christians won this election for Bush so the Radicals are really pissed now.

Muslims dont like the far left....good point m8.

quote: Originally posted by DASUSARMYI also might let you far-left people realize the truth when it comes to muslims and why they hate us. The Americans they hate the most are the amoral leftists that believe anything goes. They hate the right because we have the balls to fight em. But when it comes down to it, its your mentallity and way of life they hate us the most for.

Be interesting to see how you deal with these far left liberals. Careful now,,,ya thoroughly screwed the 911 Reichsteig Fire up with wrecklessness and the yeeeehaw mentality.

Originally posted by edsinger

Muslims dont like the far left....good point m8.

The fact that I may be hated over in the Middle East doesn't turn me into a war-mongering, racist nut job.

[edit on 11/20/2004 by Lecky]

I was a little depressed when I realized that this country might elect Kerry. I mean seriously... I know theives with more honor than this guy. I was delightfully supprised when Bush won, it gave me more faith in this country... Were still going to hell in a hand basket, but that trip has been delayed...

These amoral radicals are trying to hi-jack our country and we just decided that thats not going to happen... Thank God for that... Seriously..

"Be interesting to see how you deal with these far left liberals. Careful now,,,ya thoroughly screwed the 911 Reichsteig Fire up with wrecklessness and the yeeeehaw mentality"

Put that into a coherent argument and perhaps I will respond.

Seems like this thread is about to degrade into fuzzy reasoning and propaganda like rhetoric from the pro-war crowd.

Or how about statements like these:

It is a war upon the Western world and its way of life.

They want us dead, D-E-A-D DEAD!

They hate the right because we have the balls to fight em. But when it comes down to it, its your mentallity and way of life they hate us the most for.

These people are bent on world domination and unless we fight em its going to happen.

And a little piece of advice there, DASUSARMY. Your current manner of formulating yourself and statements such as this one hardly does your credibility any good:

And if you don't like this country and think we are the most evil entity on earth as some of you seem to think, then get the fuk out... How about Canada? Maybe France?

It sounds more like the words of a frustrated adolescent than someone of the background which you claim to be yours. And do realize, this is the internet and people constantly claim to be someone they're not. So don't for one second think people here will simply give credence to any claims made by an anonymous person right off the bat. Again I'm not calling you a liar. I'm simply informing you that credence is something you earn; not something you claim.

So lets get back to the actual issues and focus on the topic of this particular thread, shall we? Fact is, the claims initially made by the Bush Administration in its ambition to find support for the invasion of Iraq, still haven't been supported or substantiated by the available credible evidence. So from the information available thus far, this is very much an unjust war.


[edit on 21-11-2004 by Durden]

These amoral radicals are trying to hi-jack our country

Moral or Morale is the question.

You might be a Bush Bot if ya say
im patriotic because i have a bunch of support our troops magnents on my car

im patriotic because I wave a us flag made in china

say liberal this liberal that liberal this liberal that in every other sentence.

say If you dont like it leave

say i am my job and salary

say i am my acomplishments

say If you speak bad of israel you are antijew

say Your either with us or your with the terrorists

say they hate their country because they hate the government, those people are dangerous

HERE ARE SOME GREAT QUOTES:

"And say NOT thou, �My country, right or wrong�. NOR shed thy blood for an unhallowed cause." - John Quincy Adams (Sixth President of the United States), 1847

"Our country, right or wrong! When right, to be KEPT RIGHT; when wrong, to be PUT RIGHT!" - Carl Schurz, 1872 (in a speech to the US Senate)

" �Our country, right or wrong� is NOT patriotism�but a pestilent economic heresy."

J.E.T. Rogers, 1891

"The true patriot does NOT love his government. The true patriot LOVES his COUNTRY and WATCHES his government." - Author unknown (to this editor)

"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong." - Voltaire

((Editor of TTT adds: "When the government is right, both the true and the false patriot support it. However, when the government is WRONG, only the false patriot continues to support it. It is only the true patriot who has the courage to speak out against the government wrongdoing!"))

REAL PATRIOTISM VERSUS FALSE PATRIOTISM

There is a pseudo-patriotism (i.e., false patriotism) raising its ugly head in America today. It consists of BLIND, TOTAL obedience to government; and BLIND, TOTAL trust in whatever the government and/or the establishment-CONTROLLED mainstream media say. It also oftentimes consists of waving an American flag made in Red China, and screaming such things as:

"Bomb the heck out of (such and such country)!"

"Kill those (fill in the blank)!"

"How dare you question our President in a time of national crisis!"

"How dare you criticize our government!"

"Our government wouldn�t do anything bad!"

"There�s no such thing as a conspiracy, especially as concerns our fearless leaders!"

"Whatever ABC, CBS, CNN, Fox, or NBC tell us, well, it must be the gospel truth!"

etc., etc., ad nauseam!

We also hear top-level officials in our government making statements like:

"We will not tolerate outrageous conspiracy theories�"

"Anyone who questions the government�s [propaganda] line about the upcoming war with Iraq, antiterrorism legislation, etc. must be with al-Qaeda or controlled by Saddam Hussein."

We also hear high-level media types telling us such things as:

"Anyone who criticizes the government in this time of national crisis should be rounded up and put in detention centers!"

"Just wait�when the war [with Iraq] begins, we can bring those folks who criticize the government up on sedition charges!"

Well, what ever happened to the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution? ((By the way, the First Amendment reads: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or ABRIDGING the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."))

And, what ever happened to the "free exchange of ideas" that was the hallmark of American society for several centuries? For example, we had the great debates between the "federalists" and the "anti-federalists" that resulted in the Bill of Rights being made an integral part of the U.S. Constitution. We also had the great debates during colonial times as to whether or not the colonies should separate from England. Our Republic has been famous all over the world for the "great debates" that have taken place in this country over "great issues"!

And now, with the threat of "perpetual war" ahead of us � a war on terrorism that may last 100 years or more � there is to be NO real debate on these great issues? How can SOME Americans "buy" the propaganda line of both the government and the CONTROLLED media that if any Americans dare speak out about "loss of liberty" or "perpetual war" or "bombing Iraq

back into the Stone Age (a second time)", then "they must be with al-Qaeda", or, "they�re being controlled by Saddam Hussein", or "they are UNPATRIOTIC"???? Well, that�s 100% BALDERDASH and HOGWASH!

Why? It is because we Americans STILL have both the RIGHT and the DUTY to speak out on the "great issues" of our day (even in times of "national crisis")! Our representative form of government will ONLY work well if American citizens are ALLOWED to question what the government does (without fear of reprisal!), and don�t take the government�s word (or, the CONTROLLED media�s word) for ANYTHING!

Dear reader, the TRUE patriot not only questions government corruption, deception, lies, and other malfeasance � but also criticizes and challenges the government on such issues! The phony FALSE "patriot" not only refuses to question his government, much less criticize or challenge it, but he also ridicules or condemns the TRUE patriot who has the courage to speak out against government wrongdoing! The FALSE "patriot" often acts this way because of ignorance. Often it is also his laziness, apathy, and complacency that keep him from taking a little time to investigate government wrongdoing. Sadly, many times it is the FALSE "patriot�s"

cowardice that causes him to attack the TRUE patriot � because if the FALSE "patriot" would take the time to truly investigate the allegations of government wrongdoing, well then, he might discover it to be true, and then he would be responsible for opposing such (assuming he wanted to act like a good citizen)! ((And it�s so much easier for the FALSE "patriot" to bury his head in the sand and pretend everything�s just fine and "the government can do no wrong"!))

It�s as American as "apple pie" to criticize the government if such criticism is deserved (and even if it isn�t) � that�s what "free speech" is all about! However, it is UNAMERICAN, cowardly, and UNPATRIOTIC to FAIL to criticize government when such criticism is WARRANTED!

And dear reader, that is one of the greatest differences between TRUE and FALSE patriotism!

Consider for a moment the collaboration of the federal government and the CONTROLLED media in keeping the truth from the American people, sometimes for decades or longer, on such subjects as:

1) The harm caused by Agent Orange to our Vietnam veterans;

2) The harm caused by "atomic testing" on military personnel in the 1940s and 1950s;

3) The sad story of our many prisoners-of-war and missing-in-action from World War II, Korea, and Vietnam;

4) The many veterans of the 1991 Gulf War who died from, or who are still dying from, Gulf War Illness;

etc., etc., etc.

The above cover-ups, deceptions, lies, etc., are ONLY a few of the MANY perpetrated upon the American people by our federal government (often in collaboration with the CONTROLLED media)! So, you who trust everything the government and CONTROLLED media tell you, please tell me why the rest of us Americans should be as ignorant and foolish as you?

The truth of the matter is that all of us Americans better do some serious checking into what the federal government is up to in this "perpetual war" against terrorism and those nations that support terrorism, and its Draconian and Orwellian anti-terrorism legislation! It is the American people who will be sending their sons, daughters, brothers, sisters, etc., off to far-away lands to bleed and die in this "perpetual war" that may last 100 years (or more)! It is the American people who will be suffering civilian casualties here at home when the "terrorists" retaliate for U.S. bombing and invasion of various nations and peoples around the world! It is the American people who will be funding this "perpetual war". It will be the American people who will be forced to give up their freedom for a "little security" from "Big Government"!

It would behoove us all to do some SERIOUS investigation and to get QUICKLY INFORMED about this "perpetual war", the anti-terrorism legislation (that guts the U.S. Constitution � such as Homeland Security and the Patriot Act), etc. And then, once we are informed, we need to QUICKLY INFORM OTHERS! We may NOT have a lot of time to do so, since it appears that we may soon be heading into World War III (and you can bet NO ONE will be permitted to speak out then without GREAT RISK of reprisal from the government!). Which brings us to:

GETTING THE TRUTH

1. Visit some great web sites that are loaded with articles on current events and/or with insightful analysis of current events (listed alphabetically by organization):

a.) Alex Jones� Show, www.infowars.com and www.infowars.net and www.prisonplanet.com ;

b) Call to Decision Ministries, www.calltodecision.com .

c) "Perspectives on America", www.federalobserver.com .

2. Listen in to some great broadcasts that deal with current events &/or analysis of those events (listed in alphabetical order) ((all times are Eastern; Monday thru Friday)) ((SW = short-wave)):

a) Alex Jones� Show; noon-3 P.M. (SW frequencies: 12.172 MHz and 9.320 MHz), and 10 P.M.-1 A.M. (SW frequencies: 5.085 MHz and 6.890 MHz); or listen live off of the net at www.infowars.com . Check his web site for satellite information.

b) "Perspectives on America", hosted by Jeffrey Bennett; 10-11 A.M. (SW frequency: 12.160 MHz); Contains excellent editorial analysis; check his web site: www.federalobserver.com for more information.



((Most of the web sites listed above have a TON of great "information tools", such as books, video tapes, audio cassette tapes, etc. PLEASE check them out! If you do not have access to a computer, than PLEASE visit your local library and use theirs! If you cannot listen to some of the above-mentioned broadcasts on the net, consider purchasing a short wave radio so that you can listen!))

3. Obtain some great video tapes ((they are great informational tools to loan or give to others)):

a.) Documentary films (on VHS video tape; some on DVD): "The Masters of Terror", "9-11 : The Road to Tyranny", "Police State 2000", and "Police State II � The Takeover"; all by Alex Jones. Most of these documentaries are over two hours in length; are fast-moving and professionally-done; are fully-documented; and tell the truth that the mainstream media keeps from you! (Those in the military and in law enforcement REALLY NEED to see the two "Police State" videos!) If you order three or more of any one or combination of videos, the price drops down to $20 per tape. If you can only afford two, I recommend the first two listed above. To order: either call toll-free 888-253-3139 ; or, visit their web site at www.infowars.com .

b.) Video, "Gulag USA" by Texe Marrs ( It contains 82 minutes of documented information on "relocation centers" in the USA. To order, call toll-free 800-234-9673; or send $27.50 PPD check or money order made out to: "Power of Prophecy" and mail to: Power of Prophecy // 1708 Patterson Road // Austin, TX 78733 .

4. Purchase some good books that tell the facts that the establishment-controlled mainstream media often keeps from the American people. Here are some good books:

a. The Medusa File by Lieutenant Colonel Craig Roberts (deals with "government secrets" you are not supposed to know about; covers the period from 1940 through 1996).

b. The Brotherhood of Darkness by Dr. Stanley Monteith (deals with the influence of secret societies on civilization);

c. None Dare Call it Treason by John Stormer (a classic: It is a compilation of facts from hundreds of Congressional investigations of communism and its infiltration into many aspects of our society);

d. Into the Buzzsaw, edited by Kristina Borjesson (numerous stories of journalists in America who had major stories suppressed by "those above them" � debunks the myth of a "free press" in America);

e. The Planned Destruction of America by Dr. James Wardner (deals with the plans made many years ago to destroy our Republic).

f. Another book I most highly recommend is Operation Vampire Killer 2000 (often abbreviated OVK2000) by" Police Against the New World Order" (Jack McLamb�s organization). OVK2000 can be ordered by sending $11 PPD in check or money order made out to "Aid & Abet", and mailing it to "Aid & Abet Police & Military Newsletter" // HC 11, Box 357 // Kamiah, Idaho 83536 . ((This book is an absolute MUST read for all Americans, and especially for military and law enforcement personnel. It deals with the globalist rich elite�s plans to end America�s national sovereignty, and to bring in a New World Order. The book is in 8 � X 11" format; and is profusely illustrated with drawings. It uses a lot of great quotes, including some from the mouths of the globalists themselves, to teach us what the globalists are up to.)) Bulk prices are available on OVK2000 � you can call 208-935-7852 for more information; their Fax is 208-935-7854 .

g. A great booklet I also highly recommend is "Slick Willie & the Amazing American Bodybag Factory,. Inc." (which includes "War is a Racket" by Major General Smedley D. Butler) � call 410-374-4255 for information on how to order.

GREAT CLOSING QUOTE

"�They [Ed. Note: the �Feds�] are establishing SECRET military trials where you will NOT have ANY rights. NOW it�s just for�supposedly for�foreign terrorists, or people who are here illegally. But it�s A VERY SHORT STEP from taking foreign terrorists into the secret courts to taking Americans into the secret courts.

And this is what it�s really all about, ladies and gentlemen! Freedom hangs like a thread � what are YOU willing to do?