Holy Spirit

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


Google "human spirit versus Holy Spirit".

reply to post by Deetermined


I was actually asking you, but that's okay, I'll look at someone else's answer if you can't answer it yourself.

So tell me, how is a babies spirit sinful? That's what I gleaned was the answer from the first link. It basically says that God's spirit is not sinful while man's is.

Why do Christians say they are sinners when they have the Holy Spirit? I thought the Holy Spirit was without sin?

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


You and I both know that my answering your questions is a pointless exercise and will lead to a circular argument from you that ends up nowhere.

You're better off reading someone else's explanations.

reply to post by Deetermined


I know, you have circular logic so that makes sense.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

. . . how is a babies spirit sinful? It basically says that God's spirit is not sinful while man's is.

People have a natural spirit that has to be replaced by a spirit that comes from God.

Why do Christians say they are sinners when they have the Holy Spirit? I thought the Holy Spirit was without sin?

Probably from listening to Free Grace cult members who confuse them with made-up definitions for spirit and for sin.

reply to post by jmdewey60


So you have to replace your natural spirit with an unnatural one? Sounds about right for religion actually. The spirit a baby is born with is the Holy Spirit, and Jesus even points to this fact.

Matthew 18
3 And he said: "Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

This is even a nod to reincarnation in my opinion. How can you change back into a child after you're an adult? Through rebirth (born again), but that's another topic.

I'm pretty sure Paul's entire message is about a free gift from god called grace. He says faith without works is justified, and if you don't have to work for something it is free.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

So you have to replace your natural spirit with an unnatural one?

Your words.

Sounds about right for religion actually.

As if you don't have your own religion.

The spirit a baby is born with is the Holy Spirit,

And what is that opinion based on?

and Jesus even points to this fact.

You are taking that out of context. The discussion was about who was the greatest in the kingdom, and Jesus is saying if that is what you are most interested in, then you won't be in the kingdom to start with. Then he uses children as an example of the opposite of being great. It has nothing to do with being sinless.

This is even a nod to reincarnation in my opinion.

No, it is something called metaphor, something that seems to be beyond the comprehension of a lot of posters on this forum.

I'm pretty sure Paul's entire message is about a free gift from god called grace. He says faith without works is justified, and if you don't have to work for something it is free.

Sure, based on what? If it is from reading posts here, other than my own, on what people think Paul says, then you are going to be off. You have to actually study what he wrote, for yourself, and that does not include Ephesians, which was written by a forger, pretending to be Paul.

reply to post by jmdewey60


Is god's spirit natural? If not, then it is unnatural.

Actually I don't have my own religion. I have my own set of beliefs that are unique to myself. Religion is defined as a belief in the supernatural, I do not believe in the supernatural.

Wow, talk about taking something out of context.

Matthew 18
4 Therefore, whoever takes the lowly position of this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5 And whoever welcomes one such child in my name welcomes me.

So how was he using children as an example of being the opposite of great? Because these verses pretty much prove you wrong completely.

So tell me, Mr. Metaphor, what is this "metaphor" he is talking about? What is it a metaphor for exactly? I assume you know the answer. I think it's a metaphor for reincarnation, so prove me wrong.

Romans 3
28 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.

We all know that if you don't have to work for something, it is free.

Or is this verse a forgery? Or maybe it's a "metaphor"?

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


Now I see why Deetermined didn't want to answer your earlier question.
You have about zero reading comprehension.
You just make up your own interpretation of what someone probably meant without hurting your brain to see what someone is really saying.
Taking something out of context is what you are doing when you quote a single verse while ignoring the verses before and after. If you read those, you would understand better the one in question.

reply to post by jmdewey60


So how is Jesus saying children are the opposite of great when he clearly says that children are the greatest? He even says to enter the Kingdom, you must become like little children. Care to explain that? The verses before and after the one I quoted support my case that children are the greatest in the Kingdom of God. Jesus says so himself.

Care to address any of my points?

@Rex282
Hey I am curious as to why you(and a lot of people) refer to life as good and death as bad?

Originally posted by QuantumSeeker
@Rex282
Hey I am curious as to why you(and a lot of people) refer to life as good and death as bad?

Thanks ....that's a good question that needs some perspective.In general it is believed
Life is good ..death is bad...

The Truth is ...Life is Always Good(beneficial) and death is not always bad.

The dilemma with all words is what do they mean.In a logic argument the terms need to be defined.

Life=being in the realm of perception...awareness..conscious
Death=being in the realm of imperception....unawareness ...not conscious.

The point is all things that die are "revived"...resurrected in one form or another.Without going into the deep physics in general matter cannot be annihilated only rearranged and transformed.When something dies it "resurrects" into something else.For example when a plant dies it disintegrates into dead matter which can serve many purposes for other plants to grow.Death is always revived/resurrected to life in one form or another.Good death.

You are very mistaken if you believe I am saying death is the ultimate bad.It is very necessary.We only perceive a very low level of death.Physical.When it reality we are enveloped by death.The valley of the "shadow" of death.The realm in which we live.All physical matter will die.That is part of the process.In organic material it will resurrect in other organic material and so on.

Of course man is much more complicated.The spirit(life) we are born of is of a higher infusion.We "will" all be born anew from above....resurrected.In what is referred to as the spirit realm.(perception of consciousness)It is Not into a place"somewhere out there"called heaven where all those that "believe " a religious doctrine go.ALL mankind will be born anew.All in different orders...progressions of growth and transformations of resurrections.

This perception realm is the 1st light of Life..separated from the valley of the shadow of death.The physical realm.It is not ghosty spirit.It is for lack of a better term transcendental...it transcends the shadow.It is in one sense the marriage of both realms.A physical body of matter that cannot die that begins to perceive life.It is all a process not an event.

That "body"(for lack of a better term) can be in this physical realm and the spirit realm simultaneously.Quantum physics has observed this phenomena but in one sense (once again) transcends "scientific" because it can't be reproduced with the same results.The basis is ..what we perceive as matter can be observed as either particles or waves.But it can't be known which one they are going to be when observed.Truth is stranger than fiction.

The dilemma is we cannot observe our self existence from the outside while being inside the valley of the shadow of death.This is the conundrum of death.It causes imperception.Things of spirit (life) cannot be known only believed at best.
Even after physical death that doesn't mean everyone will perceive fully .The vast majority will still be dead to spirit.The growth(called salvation)is a process.It isn't an event like many of the religious believe.It doesn't stop after death and is FULL grown it is an infinite process.Just as if our bodies lived longer we would continue to grow in experience(not necessarily all "good" )...and of course the dilemma again is the longer our bodies live the more they die!

Again the process all makes sense.If the body continued to live while it is disintegrating and was very difficult to kill I am sure most of us would not want to live and suffer through that for millenniums.God has foreseen all this in the process and has made all things work together that don't appear to work together.In general most people do not want to die.They do everything to avoid it.We perceive there is something unnatural about it yet our experience is everything physical will die and we know that is natural also.That is the great conundrum not that the basis can't be perceived but how we act in contradiction to it!It is a fairly accurate picture of our state of being...in the valley of shadows and not light.

The bottom line is.This process is all being caused by The Creator God.There is nothing we can do to alter it.and if we had perception we would not even think to try to alter it.Our general"healthy" desire is to live forever.That is built into us because it is truth.Death is an integral part of the equation however it is not the natural state to be in.Life is the natural state.All perception is in Life.

I made a list of the verses with "Holy Spirit" in them.
You can see it at,
readingthebibleingreek.blog.com...
I came up with 90 verses.
Most of them have it in the form with the word "spirit" coming before the word "holy".
Only 12 has it the way it comes up in the English translation, with the word "holy" followed by "spirit".
What I was saying earlier was that from a quick survey of some verses that I made three months ago,
it looked like when it was referring to the person of the godhead, the Holy Spirit, it was where it had it in the second form that I mentioned above.
You can check it yourself by following the link.
I highlighted the notes that I made indicating that form in blue (since they are the minority), to find them easier.

reply to post by DISRAELI


If I invented the word, "cat", you would not have to rely on me to understand what it meant.

reply to post by smithjustinb


Was there supposed to be some logic in that statement?

People are aware of what a cat is because the word already exists and they learn at a young age what it is and what it means.

If you invented a new word, you would most definitely need to describe it and give us a picture of what it looks like for us to know what you're talking about and what it means.

Is there another text outside of the Bible that you're aware of that uses the name, Holy Spirit, and goes into detail describing who and what it is?

If you're trying to say that there is only one spirit and that everyone that experiences it is experiencing the Holy Spirit, there are plenty of people who will argue against that statement.

reply to post by smithjustinb

You are trying to make a spurious point by citing a word that already exists.
If you genuinely invented the word "cat", then of course you would have the right to determine what it meant. You would be the authority on the subject.

On the other hand, if you take a word that already exists, and claim to give it a new meaning on the grounds that you had invented it, you would be exceeding your authority.
If you took the existing word "cat", and claimed to interpret it as meaning "any three-legged animal that barks and supplies milk in large quantities", ignoring the traditional meaning of "furry animal which treats human houses as restaurants", that would be invalid.
That is what New Age people do, when they abduct a word or phrase which belongs to somebody else, a Biblically originated word with a Biblical meaning, and re-adjust it to suit their own purposes.

The holy spirit could be experienced by someone with no prior knowledge of any christianity, and could be recognized as a superior, divine presence. Someone else could have the same experience, and in their quest to put a label on it, having heard the term, "holy spirit" before, may very likely call what they experienced, “the holy spirit", even if they had only heard the term and nothing else. You dont have to be a christian, nor a believer. You could even be a non believer who has justified their reasons for not believing, amd you could still expeirience the holy spirit, and could still put that label on it.

reply to post by smithjustinb

You dont have to be a christian, nor a believer. You could even be a non believer who has justified their reasons for not believing, amd you could still expeirience the holy spirit, and could still put that label on it.

Not true. There are plenty of spirits out there and they are not all the Holy Spirit. Even Satan has the ability to disguise himself as an angel of light to deceive people and make them feel all warm and fuzzy, but that doesn't make him the Holy Spirit.

Originally posted by smithjustinb
The holy spirit could be experienced by someone with no prior knowledge of any christianity, and could be recognized as a superior, divine presence. Someone else could have the same experience, and in their quest to put a label on it, having heard the term, "holy spirit" before, may very likely call what they experienced, “the holy spirit", even if they had only heard the term and nothing else. You dont have to be a christian, nor a believer. You could even be a non believer who has justified their reasons for not believing, amd you could still expeirience the holy spirit, and could still put that label on it.

absolutely true.. the Holy spirit is NOT "a " spirit it IS spirit.God is spirit not "a " spirit. The false doctrine of "the Trinity" as the HS being a "person" of the godhead has caused many to "believe" fallaciously that it is only imparted unto them as "special" like an incantation of magic.God is not a respecter of persons and does not perform magic tricks.He will pour out spirit to whom he will.Praying,chanting, channeling ,believing,etc etc....will do nothing.That is all religious mysticism.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by smithjustinb

 

You dont have to be a christian, nor a believer. You could even be a non believer who has justified their reasons for not believing, amd you could still expeirience the holy spirit, and could still put that label on it.

Not true. There are plenty of spirits out there and they are not all the Holy Spirit. Even Satan has the ability to disguise himself as an angel of light to deceive people and make them feel all warm and fuzzy, but that doesn't make him the Holy Spirit.

Not true? Really? Heres some logic for you... try to keep up. If what I said is untrue, then every time anyone has ever walked down to an altar to get saved, they were convicted by something other than god. Take your time responding to this. Read what you called untrue a few times if you need to.