Is it possible to simply dislike homosexual behavior without being labeled a homophobe?

Originally posted by nownow
reply to post by ThinkingCap

 

I can't wait until conspiracy theorists can come out

Aint really our business whether you're gay or straight bud.

And so it seems if you are against it and write a Thread about it, it gets put into the trash bin!

Such was the case with my Thread earlier....

Anything opposed to 'Gay' Rights, gets chucked in the bin.

This to me, seems to say that ATS is Pro Gay!!

At least if you have to fight for something, make sure it is morally right what you are fighting for and not Morally wrong.

reply to post by TruthxIsxInxThexMist


Personally im anti-gay rights, i think rights are rights and they are for everyone. If we continue this mentality of everyone needing "rights" for their own group we will end up in trouble.

Indeed we as Humans all deserve the same rights, my sexuality doesn't alter the fact that i am Human and you are Human

there should be no reason why i and other homosexuals must fight for rights that should be already established for us, the same as no other race or gender who must fight for their rights

personal belief is something i will defend for anyone, same with speech and expression, but not only are we afforded those same rights, we should also be afforded the same rights as anyone regardless

reply to post by TruthxIsxInxThexMist

This to me, seems to say that ATS is Pro Gay!!

At least if you have to fight for something, make sure it is morally right what you are fighting for and not Morally wrong.

Gay rights is a political issue and the government doesn't exist to protect "morals", it's there to protect FREEDOM.

Each individual is supposed to have these 3 things: right of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness (as declared in the declaration of independence).

If you think something is wrong, don't participate in it.
If you think something is wrong, speak out against it (as you are already doing ).

However, do not think that your freedom of speech is any justification to deny the freedom of equality and the pursuit of happiness for Gays. Gay people deserve the same quality of life, freedom, and ability to follow their joy as every other individual (except for those who does not deny these 3 qualities to others).

But you are a homophobe.

Don't you know that, if you're not a gay rights activist, then you're a bigoted moronic cult worshiper?

Only gays are allowed to have their ways respected.

Only straights can be bigoted and preform hate crimes.

Only whites can be racist, too.

Hate crimes are only hate crimes if straights are attacking gays, but not the other way around.

Oh wait...

Gay pride activists beat Christian peaceful protesters in the street

Well, what do you know. Hate does go both ways. Who would've thought?

Originally posted by Superhans
reply to post by TruthxIsxInxThexMist

 

Personally im anti-gay rights, i think rights are rights and they are for everyone. If we continue this mentality of everyone needing "rights" for their own group we will end up in trouble.

So by that, you would support the right to marry for ALL people, then, correct? The problem is that the way the laws were originally written they did not support equal rights for all because at that time, all people were not considered equal. Because of this, groups have had to fight to get the same rights as everyone else over the years. I think they need to rewrite much of it so it isn't so ambiguous and so it applies to modern times. Yeah I like traditions and the founding fathers as well, but realistically they were a bunch of slave owning masons. Times are much different and we need to get with the program, IMO. There's no justifiable reason why all these groups should have to fight for equal rights, in a country whose slogan is the "land of the free".

reply to post by XxNightAngelusxX


That is a hyperbolic reaction, and i believe you believe it to be reality,

we have stated no one 'Group' of people is perfect, there are bad and good straight,gay,black and white, all races and genders have 'good' and 'bad' people, and i don't believe anyone in this topic or other topics, or in real life think that homosexuals are superior or should be treated superior

your statement is an easy reaction that most people take when they have nothing else to say,

did those people deserve the right to attack those preachers physically? of course not, no one should ever result to physical violence, sadly many do

now besides the physical violence, it seems a bit hypocritical to claim us homosexuals are throwing it in peoples faces, yet these preachers went to a pride event to 'throw religion' in peoples face, it does not warrant physical violence, i'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of people

i don't believe anyone should be 'Anti' anyone, and i don't think discrimination should be accepted, but you have you freedom of thought belief speech and expression, if you want to believe that way it's your freedom

Originally posted by Darth_Prime
reply to post by XxNightAngelusxX

 

That is a hyperbolic reaction, and i believe you believe it to be reality,

we have stated no one 'Group' of people is perfect, there are bad and good straight,gay,black and white, all races and genders have 'good' and 'bad' people, and i don't believe anyone in this topic or other topics, or in real life think that homosexuals are superior or should be treated superior

your statement is an easy reaction that most people take when they have nothing else to say,

did those people deserve the right to attack those preachers physically? of course not, no one should ever result to physical violence, sadly many do

now besides the physical violence, it seems a bit hypocritical to claim us homosexuals are throwing it in peoples faces, yet these preachers went to a pride event to 'throw religion' in peoples face, it does not warrant physical violence, i'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of people

i don't believe anyone should be 'Anti' anyone, and i don't think discrimination should be accepted, but you have you freedom of thought belief speech and expression, if you want to believe that way it's your freedom

I apologize if I seem a little heated, I've been dealing with people who like to throw the "Bigot" word around if anyone replies on a homosexuality thread who happens to be a believer in God, or even semi-conservative. If I seem to be jumping the gun, I'm sorry.

But I'm not sorry for my beliefs. Just saying.

I find it funny that a peaceful protest offended so many gay pride activists in a scenario when there were only two protesting preachers, and hundreds of gay pride folks... but when people protest the Westboro Baptist Church (who actually ARE disturbingly offensive) no one throws a punch, because the WBC is a big family with a big group of followers, and probably because anyone who'd try to fight em would get their asses beat.

Its not because they're gay. I don't care about that.

They massively outnumbered those two lone preachers, so they thought they'd act tough by cussing them out, taking their sign, and jumping one of them. Until the cops came, and they scattered like roaches.

I'm not upset because they're gay. That has nothing to do with it.

I'm angry, because they acted like savage cowards, not like human beings.

Doesn't look good on other gay rights activists... or humanity in general.

Originally posted by TruthxIsxInxThexMist
And so it seems if you are against it and write a Thread about it, it gets put into the trash bin!

Such was the case with my Thread earlier....

Anything opposed to 'Gay' Rights, gets chucked in the bin.

This to me, seems to say that ATS is Pro Gay!!

At least if you have to fight for something, make sure it is morally right what you are fighting for and not Morally wrong.

So True!

No disrespect to ATS, but it makes me wonder how many of the moderators are part of the *gay* community. Deny ignorance? Ugh... evidently not. I guess some arguments are only allowed to have one side...

reply to post by Paschar0


Who cares what people label other people, who cares what other people dislike?

I can label anyone anything... I can dislike anything I want about other people... and everyone can do this...

who cares?

reply to post by XxNightAngelusxX


any violence is unnecessary and takes away from whatever you are trying to show, i concur with that statement

it has happened throughout history though whenever a group is repressed, that is not saying violence is tolerable or the right way to do things

words get tossed around all the time, like 'Progressive' and 'Liberal' and 'Socialist' likewise 'Abomination' 'Racist' 'Bigot'

big·ot
noun \ˈbi-gət\
Definition of BIGOT
: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance

you don't have to apologize for your beliefs to me, it may be a bit closed minded but that is your right, and i wont attack you for any of that or treat you with malice

I just read the OP and wanted to sympathize to a degree.

Unfortunately nobody teaches young gay people how to be gay, and the difference between appropriate protest and being annoying, or the difference between media and reality.
In fact, nobody wants to teach young people anything about being "gay" whatsoever, and the locations where gay people grow up are often far removed from more wise gay elders.
And there is actually a lot of advice that younger people can take from older people.

Coming out the closet can be very liberating, but it's a huge mistake to suddenly treat the world like a big pride parade.

I could say more, but there were so many remarks by posters who make it clear that they will "dislike" gays no matter how dignified they may act, that at this point I'm thinking stuff it.

If they're going to hate us anyway, then why not camp it up?

It ain't going to make a difference how we behave.
Perhaps it's better to be upfront, and avoid the soul-destroying disappointment that comes after hours of chatting to people, and then they hear "I'm gay" (or figure it out and ask) and they suddenly move away to the opposite side of the room.

Perhaps I should rather make it clear from the outset, and then we don't have to waste any time on each other as people.

reply to post by XxNightAngelusxX

No, I think you are wrong about ATS being pro-gay.

I've had a thread trashed about God being gay, and at that time I actually accused ATS of being homophobic.

There was a thread on the Infowars material, to which I replied at great length.
It compared what is written on the page to what the videos actually show.
My ultimate point was actually that Christian groups should apply for the same protection as Westboro, and their gung-ho behavior would then less endanger other people, like the cops (especially the arrogant, disobedient person in clip 2).

Unfortunately, when my post was finally done the thread was already in the trash bin.

But, I've learned not to judge staff on ATS, because posts came fast and furious on that thread, and I'm sure there must have been quite a bit of gleeful hate.
I'm not going into details here about the clips and how Infowars framed them, but yes, I have seen hate from all sides.
To say specifically gay people cannot hate is like saying they are not human.

I've yet to see a post by a gay person that advocates going out with baseball bats and going straight bashing, or gay people who claim to know Jesus and then brag about breaking a straight man's jaw.
All these things I've seen against gay people, although the mods did intervene.

So when it comes to advocating hate, the gays and their friends are somewhat lack-luster compared to what some would like to do to us.

Compared to other forms of prejudice I think homophobia is still more acceptable socially than racism.
Gay critics get away with far more than racial critics.

I've also noted that pro-gay threads can be trashed, if they are simply assumed to get a rise out of people and cause disruption.

Ultimately we are a community on ATS, and I'm sure mods sometimes have to make choices for the greater good.

reply to post by XxNightAngelusxX


Violence is unacceptable, no matter what. Everyone has the right to peacefully protest, it's one of the values our country was founded on and has held strong. The one thing that makes this situation different, is that those preachers were protesting a protest, which is not a smart idea. That's like a couple white guys hanging out in the middle of an African American civil rights protest in the 60s denouncing black people as lesser people. It's bound to break out in a fight because they are directly insulting the people there. The rally was not about hate of straight people or hate of Christians, it was about equal marriage rights. The preachers, however, were there specifically to be "anti-gay", not to teach Christianity or fight for Christian rights. When you insult people you are asking for it, especially when in a big group. Chance are you'll find someone that will fight you. It's like I said in my earlier responses, when you speak out against a certain type of person, generalize them to a label, and act like they don't deserve the same rights that YOU already have, you are being prejudiced. Call it bigotry, homophobia, racism, or whatever. If you don't treat all people as equal or believe that they are, then you fall into that category. It's really that simple.

reply to post by Barcs


The signs said something along the lines of "Jesus saves" and "Stop watching TV, listening to radio" I did not find any quotes of what the preacher was saying to people.

Does anyone have a link specifically detailing the verbiage the men were using?

Originally posted by FriedBabelBroccoli
reply to post by Barcs

 

The signs said something along the lines of "Jesus saves" and "Stop watching TV, listening to radio" I did not find any quotes of what the preacher was saying to people.

Does anyone have a link specifically detailing the verbiage the men were using?

I'd be interested in the verbiage as well. You almost have to assume that they weren't saying peaceful things, but some people are much more confrontational than others. Alcohol always seems to play a role as well.

A sign that says "Jesus saves" at a gay rights rally could be considered an insult because it is essentially saying that their god doesn't approve of homosexuality, which paints them as inferior people or "sinners" destined for hell. It's self righteous. They aren't telling them to find Jesus or even teaching his values. They are telling them to stop being homosexuals so they can be "saved". I sure as heck wouldn't go to a Christian rally with a sign that says "Hail Satan" or "God is a guess."

Dudes like that are real life trolls. They go to rallies and events with one goal in mind. They WANT to provoke a reaction or a fight, because it will bring negative publicity to the gay rights movement. It's like an NBA flop, IMO. They are playing the victims and over reacting in an attempt to change the public's opinion. You have to give them credit, it's smart, but its dishonorable. In reality a few homosexuals attacking a preacher, or a few Christians attacking a homosexual, or a few white guys beating up a black guy DOES not in any way shape or form speak for the whole group. Scumbags exist in all "groups" of people. If anything has been proven in this world, that's it.

reply to post by Barcs

This was also my problem with both Infowar clips.

Rude people seem drawn to the Christian counter-protest because of other gripes they have with Christianity, not because they are necessarily gay or lesbian.

In clip 1 I find the young women very immature (although they never touch the Christians), and the shirtless guy seems to be over-reacting on a macho impulse to impress them, and a drunk misinterpretation to what is suddenly happening behind him (he's not actually the spark of the physical brawl).
Ironically, he is repeating what a lot of gender activism wanted to deconstruct.
He knows seemingly nothing on gay or gender issues.
Clearly he does not impress the silly ladies when he punches the Christian, and people respond quite quickly.
He also ends up getting arrested, and rightfully so.
Not sure, but my feeling is that he wasn't gay, and none of these people are shown in the actual parade.
I do think they were drunk.
Until further proof, this may well be a case of gay people breaking up a brawl between straight men (even if one may be pro-gay).

In clip 2 people are reacting, but we only get one point of view (the protestor's view of the crowd).
Here the most vocal response also comes from young pagans.
However, there is no actual violence from the crowd in this clip (apart from a splash of water at the start).
Rather, the very arrogant "Christian" refuses to be moved on by the cops.
I'm not sure how this can be an example of free speech, because at the start he's just guilt-tripping people for swearing!
It ends with him unharmed and free, so I'm not sure of the point.

So far Christian groups are a part of the gay pride scenery in many cities across the world.
This has been the case for decades.
It's sad that the political climate is more confrontational than traditionally, but maybe those Christian groups should also protest their own leaders who are creating the climate for confrontation.
People don't just feel threatened for nothing.

I'd like to see one other minority march where people whose leaders make their dislike and disgust clear can come and stand by a parade of their targets without many incidents for so long.

The responsible group who organized the parade should have freedom of speech on that day, and they should be protected from harassment and disturbance as the cops see fit to keep a volatile public order.

I've seen clips of many unpopular protests, groups and marches defended by the police in North America.
This includes clips of people protesting against the murders of white farmers in South Africa (which the police protected against an attack by the Occupy Oakland movement), and even an ISKCON march (in which a former member was kicked out for causing a vocal disturbance).
I've also seen Christian provocateurs getting escorted from a Muslim event, where they caused a near riot that endangered everybody.
The cops have a right to tell people who don't belong at the march to move along.
I'm not sure why this should be different for a gay parade.

If people want to simply arrive uninvited at a march with loaded sloganeering, then bless them if they get away with it, but they are taking a chance.
It might get credentials at the sect headquarters, especially if they get some footage to edit with their cameras.

I'd say if Westboro can organize protection then so should other such groups.

Freedom of speech comes with responsibility.
Or why don't they organize their own march, and stop capitalizing on other people to get attention?
Then they can have all the freedom of speech in the world.
Or why not organize a proper town-hall discussion, where nobody has to shout or engage in mega-phone preaching?
Oh dear, but who will care if they're preaching to the choir?

In any case, I think the title to these incidents: "Hate Crime: Gay activists brutally beat Christians" is an exaggeration.
In clip 1 there is an assault (which is wrong, and an arrest did follow), but little evidence on who are gay activists, and who are drunk brawlers.
In clip 2 the main issue appears to be with the police, and nobody seems to be beaten.

The title really makes it seem like gay activists took baseball bats and decided to go "Christian bashing", almost like a reversal of the violent hate crimes against gay people.
That's not what happened, even if the violence in clip 1 should be condemned, and in an ideal world freedom of speech should neither be stopped nor practiced irresponsibly.

Originally posted by Darth_Prime
Indeed we as Humans all deserve the same rights, my sexuality doesn't alter the fact that i am Human and you are Human

there should be no reason why i and other homosexuals must fight for rights that should be already established for us, the same as no other race or gender who must fight for their rights

personal belief is something i will defend for anyone, same with speech and expression, but not only are we afforded those same rights, we should also be afforded the same rights as anyone regardless

The fundamental problem with your statement is that marriage is not a "right", it is a social construct.

If marriage were to in fact become a right, where would it end?

Maybe someone wants the "right" to "marry" their patio furniture. Maybe someone else wants the "right" to "marry" a penguin named "Leroy". And then of course there is always going to be some KOOK who wants to marry more than one woman...

It's a slippery slope, dude...

reply to post by SBMcG


it's not a slippery slope because what is stopping people now?

Straight Marriage = two consenting adult Humans

Gay Marriage = two consenting adult Humans

so why a slippery slope only if gays would be allowed to marry all over?