reply to post by Barcs
This was also my problem with both Infowar clips.
Rude people seem drawn to the Christian counter-protest because of other gripes they have with Christianity, not because they are necessarily gay or
In clip 1 I find the young women very immature (although they never touch the Christians), and the shirtless guy seems to be over-reacting on a macho
impulse to impress them, and a drunk misinterpretation to what is suddenly happening behind him (he's not actually the spark of the physical
Ironically, he is repeating what a lot of gender activism wanted to deconstruct.
He knows seemingly nothing on gay or gender issues.
Clearly he does not impress the silly ladies when he punches the Christian, and people respond quite quickly.
He also ends up getting arrested, and rightfully so.
Not sure, but my feeling is that he wasn't gay, and none of these people are shown in the actual parade.
I do think they were drunk.
Until further proof, this may well be a case of gay people breaking up a brawl between straight men (even if one may be pro-gay).
In clip 2 people are reacting, but we only get one point of view (the protestor's view of the crowd).
Here the most vocal response also comes from young pagans.
However, there is no actual violence from the crowd in this clip (apart from a splash of water at the start).
Rather, the very arrogant "Christian" refuses to be moved on by the cops.
I'm not sure how this can be an example of free speech, because at the start he's just guilt-tripping people for swearing!
It ends with him unharmed and free, so I'm not sure of the point.
So far Christian groups are a part of the gay pride scenery in many cities across the world.
This has been the case for decades.
It's sad that the political climate is more confrontational than traditionally, but maybe those Christian groups should also protest their own leaders
who are creating the climate for confrontation.
People don't just feel threatened for nothing.
I'd like to see one other minority march where people whose leaders make their dislike and disgust clear can come and stand by a parade of their
targets without many incidents for so long.
The responsible group who organized the parade should have freedom of speech on that day, and they should be protected from harassment and disturbance
as the cops see fit to keep a volatile public order.
I've seen clips of many unpopular protests, groups and marches defended by the police in North America.
This includes clips of people protesting against the murders of white farmers in South Africa (which the police protected against an attack by the
Occupy Oakland movement), and even an ISKCON march (in which a former member was kicked out for causing a vocal disturbance).
I've also seen Christian provocateurs getting escorted from a Muslim event, where they caused a near riot that endangered everybody.
The cops have a right to tell people who don't belong at the march to move along.
I'm not sure why this should be different for a gay parade.
If people want to simply arrive uninvited at a march with loaded sloganeering, then bless them if they get away with it, but they are taking a
It might get credentials at the sect headquarters, especially if they get some footage to edit with their cameras.
I'd say if Westboro can organize protection then so should other such groups.
Freedom of speech comes with responsibility.
Or why don't they organize their own march, and stop capitalizing on other people to get attention?
Then they can have all the freedom of speech in the world.
Or why not organize a proper town-hall discussion, where nobody has to shout or engage in mega-phone preaching?
Oh dear, but who will care if they're preaching to the choir?
In any case, I think the title to these incidents: "Hate Crime: Gay activists brutally beat Christians" is an exaggeration.
In clip 1 there is an assault (which is wrong, and an arrest did follow), but little evidence on who are gay activists, and who are drunk brawlers.
In clip 2 the main issue appears to be with the police, and nobody seems to be beaten.
The title really makes it seem like gay activists took baseball bats and decided to go "Christian bashing", almost like a reversal of the violent hate
crimes against gay people.
That's not what happened, even if the violence in clip 1 should be condemned, and in an ideal world freedom of speech should neither be stopped nor
edit on 9-7-2013 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)