Question/observation

Wanted to post a question to all skeptics. With all the evidence easily found showing validity of other beings visiting earth, why do people still refuse to accept the truth? Between objects filmed in space and extraordinary radar contacts, why the skepticism still? If an object is recorded going from motionless to thousands of miles an hour within seconds......something tells me it's: 1- more advanced than we can understand. 2- under some kind of intelligent control.

I have two possible reasons for skepticism. 1- people are happy in there own little reality and don't wanna know something that upsets the apple cart (ignorance is bliss.) 2- people are too ignorant or arrogant to accept the fact that humans don't have all the answers yet.
Please give me some feedback and your honest opinions.

"All that we see and seem, is but a dream within a dream."

reply to post by makaveli3601

Wanted to post a question to all skeptics. With all the evidence easily found showing validity of other beings visiting earth, why do people still refuse to accept the truth?

Please post some of this "Evidence"
Thanks.

You've just opened a can of worms my friend, it will now be a continuous 'back and forth' debate about "showing evidence they exist/don't exist.

Here is one example: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Here is another:www.abovetopsecret.com...


It's a pointless course to take. People want "them" to land on their lawn and wave before they believe it.

reply to post by skyblueworld


The point is there is no evidence that proves ET are visiting this planet , if there were there would be no debate as we would know because there is proof .
What we have is interpretations of events or footage that could suggest a non terrestrial explanation but that is not proof nor is it evidence .

Originally posted by gortex
reply to post by skyblueworld

 

The point is there is no evidence that proves ET are visiting this planet , if there were there would be no debate as we would know because there is proof .
What we have is interpretations of events or footage that could suggest a non terrestrial explanation but that is not proof nor is it evidence .

Instead of me typing, here's a quote from another member called 'truthseeker1984'.

The fact is, it is statistically impossible for there not to be other forms of life in our universe, and in our own galaxy. Out of so many forms of this life, there statistically has to be at least some races that have reached a space-faring status. This matter is not one of faith, but of time. There have been reports as far back as the beginning of recorded history about travelers from another planet. There have been sightings of UFO's for that long as well. You can't tell me that those ancient people had advanced technology back then to manipulate the minds of the people living on this planet. Meeting absence of evidence with your own absence of evidence is a logic fallacy. Two "wrongs" don't make a right my friend. I can see your exasperation. I think you really believe that there are other forms of life out there, and you're sick and tired of the posters that claim that they have seen them, met with them, or even are them without any form of proof. I am too. However, historical evidence cannot lie, given the fact that I doubt our ancient peoples were capable of "advanced technology." Mathematics cannot lie, and it is only a matter of time before we finally see the "proof" that you are looking for.

I'll leave it at that

reply to post by skyblueworld


I fully believe there is other intelligent life in the Universe and our own Galaxy , I believe there is even other life in our Solar System and quite close to home too , as for AA ....

The evidence is only there if you want it to be , our ancestors were clever and resourceful and did have their own advanced technology and techniques , to credit ET for their wonders does them a disservice .

good questions... 1 feels fear is associated combined with other social programming to cause conscious avoidance of the objectiveness of it all potentially.

NAMASTE*******

reply to post by makaveli3601


I was saying yesterday in another thread :

Originally posted by Trueman
reply to post by vardas

 

I don't blame you for being skeptic after few years reading ATS UFO related threads, with a high percentage of them debunked.

But the phenomena exist, regardless the sea of false evidence created by frustration. See....., E.T.s don't give a crap about our thirst for evidence. They do whatever they come to do, ignoring our personal opinion. Must be a lack of ego.

reply to post by gortex
So the various testimonies from the Ruwa UFO incident (Zimbabwe), Varginha and Colares cases are all "interpretations of events" and not evidence in no shape or form? Is this a correct assumption? Are statements from multiple subjects that corroborate each other deemed "evidence" or just interpretations of events?

Just trying to understand.

The statistical fallacy I always hear is the statement along the lines of intelligent life existing somewhere else in the Universe.

The Universe. Sure, great. That's nice, but, do you realize how big the Universe is?

There could be 100 Billion other intelligent civilizations absolutely thriving all over the Universe, but, even then, that would only account for maybe one civilization per galaxy out of 20% of the available galaxies in the KNOWN universe still leaving 80% of the universe vacant with possibility.

Even then, the human species could exist at our current level of technology and greater for a million years and still NOT DETECT not even one single other of the exampled/proposed intelligent civilizations.

The universe is that large.

Our galaxy alone is large enough that if you had one single space ship that could travel at the speed of imagination; instantaneously anywhere, and you spent exactly ONE SECOND at every star in our galaxy, it would take you around 12,000 YEARS to make such a trip, visiting every star in just our galaxy for only one second.

If you visited every star in the known universe for just one second, it would take hundreds of thousands of billions of times longer than the Universe is already old.

So? Does it really matter if life is SOMEWHERE in the universe?
Not really.

The only life that matters in the universe is life that we can observe and/or interact with.
All other life in the universe is essentially worthless to us.

Thus, here we are.
Waiting.
We'd like some observable aliens, or aliens we can interact with unambiguously.

Invisible aliens don't count.
Aliens that speak through human channelers don't count.
Aliens that you can't take shopping at the mall for that shoe sale, or show off to your friends at this evening's wine tasting don't count.

We require unambiguous, replicable, recordable, confirming interaction with non-terrestrial species.

Until we have unambiguous confirming interactions, we wait.

reply to post by Jaellma

So the various testimonies from the Ruwa UFO incident (Zimbabwe), Varginha and Colares cases are all "interpretations of events" and not evidence in no shape or form?

All interesting cases and a couple of years ago I would of said yes they are evidence especially Varginha but the fact is they are no different to all the other stories in that we have nothing we can point at and say Extraterrestrial , nothing that can be tested or examined ..... no real evidence .

There are still a couple of UFO cases that I cling to like a comfort blanket but I wouldn't say they are evidence more a possible indication of ET visitation
I have a feeling that in the case of ET UFOs it could turn out that absence of evidence may indicate evidence of absence ... that does not make me happy .

reply to post by Druscilla
We wait...on OUR own terms.

They may choose to reveal themselves to us unambiguously on their own terms and on their own "time", whatever that means to them....5 earthly years may mean in 15 minutes, for all they care.

While we nitpick and explode our brain cells trying to find out when mass disclosure may occur, life goes on...as it has been for quite some time.

We may never get to experience this magical, mysterious, mass disclosure, at least not in our lifetime. It may not be on any of their agenda for a bit, so it's okay not to believe in the fleeting glimpses, the whimsical darting orbs, the multiple eyewitness stories of steaming, stinking and sulfur smelling, red horned alien creatures being whisked away by glaring government goons. We may never really believe or truly appreciate the dancing, devilish, dual-colored objects being emitted from silent, stupendously stationary crafts. We may never get to understand why massive objects fly into our orbit from deep space but suddenly dart back out into space for no apparent reason. Who knows why? Why would 62 children all tell the same tale of a being materializing from a craft and telepathically communicating with them. Are all these things not enough? maybe not.

As you say, we need undeniable PROOF. Not telepathic mumbo jumbo. Not beings zapping us from 2000 feet up, not craft shutting down missile silos or causing thousands of motor vehicles, airplanes, ships engines to sputter and die and magically start back up. These are not good enough!

Proof in the form of "confirmed interaction" is what we need. Right?

reply to post by gortex
We may not be able to say extraterrestrial for those unusual cases but we still have not come out and said they are confirmed terrestrial so then we are left with educated guesses.

If the Varginha case points to non-confirmed terrestrial beings, then what other choices are we left with? So far, mum is the word but we, on the outside, must question what other choices we are left with.

reply to post by makaveli3601

With all the evidence easily found showing validity of other beings visiting earth, why do people still refuse to accept the truth?

I bolded sections of the above quote to ask if you have ANY examples of those?

I expect no, otherwise this thread would not even be needed as it would be redundantly stating what you call "facts" and "evidence" and "validity".

reply to post by Jaellma


There might not be any "they" interacting with or visiting this planet, or anywhere even close to a mere little 1000 light years distant.
No one or no thing of any non-terrestrial intelligence may very well be aware that we exist at all.

The only agendas in force may very well be just human agency perpetuating a mythology of outside intelligences all the better to get way with their own human goals.

UFOs, by definition are UNKNOWN.
UNKNOWN is a variable X encompassing all probable and possible explanations including aliens, but not excluding other such things like natural phenomenon.
Plasma balls, Sprites, Geologically triggered Piezoelectric 'Earth Lights', and several other natural phenomenon have been newly discovered, observed and categorized since the early days of UFO sightings.
Some of these, like plasma balls very well could and can have EMP effects.
Ball lightning may very well have EMP effects too.

Aliens as well could cause EMP effects, but, for all we know regarding the UFO phenomenon, UFOs have gotten along quite well and fine without any requirement for aliens.
They exist, for the most part, simply as UNKNOWN.
Perhaps the only real consistently reportable and logged data point in regard to UFOs is their inconsistency and reliability for lack of producing consistent reliable data.

We don't know what UFOs are, so, calling them aliens, is a bit narrow minded as they very well could be any number of several different things, some probably quite 'boring'.

All in all, I'd rather have a boring truth than an exciting fiction.

Originally posted by Jaellma
reply to post by gortex

 

So the various testimonies from the Ruwa UFO incident (Zimbabwe), Varginha and Colares cases are all "interpretations of events" and not evidence in no shape or form? Is this a correct assumption? Are statements from multiple subjects that corroborate each other deemed "evidence" or just interpretations of events?

The Zimbabwe case is a supposed physical case where an object landed and being(s) got out and walked around. Yet, nothing physical was left behind. No indentations of the craft, no footprints where the "alien beings" walked around. Nothing at all. So, once again, we're left only with stories.

The intitial report is a claim of 62 students seeing the object(s) and being(s). Only twelve are actually interviewed. The children aren't interviewed seperately as they should have been. Instead, they were together in a group setting where they can hear the questions asked and answers of the previous children. Many of the questions are leading. Of the 25 to 30 drawings that the children made, only a few were selected because of the wide range of UFOs drawn. Even with those few hand picked drawings, some have porthole windows, some have doors, some have antennas, some have lights, some have landing gear. Same can be said about the "alien" drawings. Some have long black hair, some have completely blank faces with no hair, one is chubby, some are skinny, some have faces but no hair, one child claims one is wearing a tight black "suit". So with these multiple witnesses, there are far too many inconsistancies throughout the case.

So as skeptics, debunkers, non-believers or whatever you want to call us, we demand far more than stories to be taken at face value. Especially when talking about an extraordinary event such as alien visitation.

Originally posted by Jaellma
reply to post by gortex

 

So the various testimonies from the Ruwa UFO incident (Zimbabwe), Varginha and Colares cases are all "interpretations of events" and not evidence in no shape or form? Is this a correct assumption? Are statements from multiple subjects that corroborate each other deemed "evidence" or just interpretations of events?

Just trying to understand.
he ac

Not only interpretations of events by the actual people, interpretations of those people by UFO "researchers" which is further interpreted by others. What's missing are the actual facts.

reply to post by Ectoplasm8

The initial report is a claim of 62 students seeing the object(s) and being(s). Only twelve are actually interviewed. The children aren't interviewed separately as they should have been. Instead, they were together in a group setting where they can hear the questions asked and answers of the previous children. Many of the questions are leading. Of the 25 to 30 drawings that the children made, only a few were selected because of the wide range of UFOs drawn. Even with those few hand picked drawings, some have porthole windows, some have doors, some have antennas, some have lights, some have landing gear. Same can be said about the "alien" drawings. Some have long black hair, some have completely blank faces with no hair, one is chubby, some are skinny, some have faces but no hair, one child claims one is wearing a tight black "suit".

No adults present either. This is one of those cases that is often sited as a great case. Its not. But nobody looks, so we have 62 school children witnessing an alien landing.

Originally posted by ZetaRediculian
Not only interpretations of events by the actual people, interpretations of those people by UFO "researchers" which is further interpreted by others. What's missing are the actual facts.

Originally posted by ZetaRediculian
No adults present either. This is one of those cases that is often sited as a great case. Its not. But nobody looks, so we have 62 school children witnessing an alien landing.

You're right, it is considered to be an example of a strong case. But, it lacked any serious scientific research. The initial investigation was conducted by Cynthia Hind, a member and field investigator for the Zimbabwe MUFON, John Mack, a professor who had a pre-existing belief in alien abductions, and his assistant Dominique Callimanopulos. Hardly a group of people that would give a scientific, unbiased report of what happened.

How could anyone read this case through the eyes of biased reporting and honestly think that's good enough?

I agree with the OP.

We have evidence in abundance - and to be asked to present it is an insult to common sense.

Where should we start?

FOIA Files from each and every government?
Radar and radiation readings from all military investigations?
Video evidence of UFO's in the sky - acting intelligently?
First hand witness accounts?

Can the skeptics settle this once and for all and enlighten us as to what constitutes as 'proof'.