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Originally posted by MarioOnTheFly
hm...me kinda thinks those two terms "jesus" and "personal responsibility" don't go hand in hand.
Jesus proposes only to believe in him, and you shall be saved...Doesn't that take away somewhat this notion of personal responsibility ?
Originally posted by onequestion
What is personal responsibility?
What i mean by this statement is basically accepting yourself as the Christ.
Originally posted by asher
Originally posted by MarioOnTheFly
hm...me kinda thinks those two terms "jesus" and "personal responsibility" don't go hand in hand.
Jesus proposes only to believe in him, and you shall be saved...Doesn't that take away somewhat this notion of personal responsibility ?
Well Jesus took on the responsibility of everyone's sin. So all the wrong in the world had a personal affect on him. And with that he tried to make the world a better place and show people the way to enlightenment. He thought of this endeavor as his personal mission. I don't think it's enough to simply believe he existed you also have to follow what he was teaching (and that's doesn't mean he is the only way to enlightenment) but if you look at the core of what he says you will find that their are many other teachings that coincide with that. You don't have to want to save the whole world if you don't want to but if you apply the core of his teachings and others to your life then you will find enlightenment.
It seems to me when people think of enlightenment they try to add things to there life. But it's really a striping down of your beliefs to the core and removing all of the unessecary things ( which includes certain beliefs about reality and your ego) so it's really a subtraction of things that weigh you down spiritually so you can more freely experience reality
That's just sad. It implies that without god or the bible or jesus, you can't be a good person.
Well, it's obviously about how you interpret things. If I commit a crime, and somebody else takes on the consequences of my act, than how is that taking responsibility ?
You can perhaps argue that Jesus wanted to show the way...by taking responsibility and the punishment...but it kinda goes against the religious doctrine. The doctrine states..."those that believe in me, shall be saved"...and according to many religious folks...it really is that simple. You can commit crimes, but if you repent and believe in "salvation" (symbolism of crucified Christ), than you are forgiven and can go to "heaven".
Where is personal responsibility in this ?
Our human laws are somewhat more about taking responsibility. Because, if someone commits a crime knowingly, he will probably serve time...even if he repents. Courts don't give you a free pass for murder just because you are repentant. They could give you a free pass perhaps if you're rich, but that's a whole 'nother story. Criminals don't really fear God...they fear the law...well...most of them anyway, because it makes them take responsibility for their actions.
I find this pretty disturbing. People thinking they can do whatever they want...and get away with it...on the basis of them believing in salvation.
For me...not the sole belief in God, but belief in religious doctrine, takes away the personal responsibility. Because I'm sure God didn't nuke Sodom and Gomora, because there were gays there. I'm sure the all forgiving Jesus and his father would have forgiven them for being gay. After all...they are still his creation, aren't they?
Perhaps the OP is right...perhaps Jesus really wanted to lead by example...but I fear...he has been grossly misunderstood about what his sacrifice means. To us, it apparently means...that any deed can be justified or forgiven, because he died for us. I doubt that was his intention.