President Obama Defends NSA Spying

Originally posted by OptimusCrime
Neo,

"Those who sacrifice liberty for security soon find themselves as having neither. "

I don't think the people of this country will sacrifice their liberty. I really hope not. With liberty, comes security.

In 2001 the people of this country gladly did, when they believed that the arabs were going to kill us all.

And here we are now, 12 years later, the sleepwalkers have finally opened their eyes

and its too LATE.

Liberty will return to the United States when the country ceases to be, and a new one rises in the ashes of the people's rage.

Originally posted by neo96

Barack Obama: Well, in the end, and what I’ve said, and I continue to believe, is that we don’t have to sacrifice our freedom in order to achieve security. That’s a false choice. That doesn’t mean that there are not tradeoffs involved in any given program, in any given action that we take. So all of us make a decision that we go through a whole bunch of security at airports, which when we were growing up that wasn’t the case…. And so that’s a tradeoff we make, the same way we make a tradeoff about drunk driving. We say, “Occasionally there are going to be checkpoints. They may be intrusive.” To say there’s a tradeoff doesn’t mean somehow that we’ve abandoned freedom. I don’t think anybody says we’re no longer free because we have checkpoints at airports.

www.buzzfeed.com...

Wow!

How can anyone continue to 'believe we don't have to sacrifice our freedom in order to achieve security' and say the hydrochloro BULL HOCKEY after that.

That airport security is more invasive than ever.
Drunk drivers aren't on no fly lists, or get droned.

Well in a free society there are not checkpoints at airports in fact that is not the America most of us older people grew up in.


Amazing how Obama sounds like GWB, but Obama goes above and beyond.

Those who sacrifice liberty for security soon find themselves as having neither.

American's it's for the 'common good' to save us from all the bad people, but as I look around don't see anyone to save us as most people are just rolling over for this tripe.

Something they would not have done under the last administration.

edit on 17-6-2013 by neo96 because: (no reason given)

Actually he is right because when you sacrifice freedom to gain security you not only lose your freedom but fail to gain security! Security is just a deterrent and is no guarantee for our safety!

reply to post by nosacrificenofreedom


I wonder if people get tired of outsourcing their personal security at the price of their personal liberty at the behest of the benevolent government that just loves to say,' Its here to save us'.

I guess they don't because as history has shown government makes more and does more harm than they ever have 'good'.

reply to post by neo96


It is really stupid reading through these posts. Your attacking Obama for a program started by G.W Bush/Cheney and was allready being refined and legalities sorted out from 2001 on. Somehow we have lost sight of who is actually responsible for what. The entire spy program was put in place by Bush/Cheney/Rumsfield/Wolfowitz etc.. And had been in place for 7 years before Obama set one foot in the White House. Had the program expanded? Yes. Had technology improvements been central to the expansion? Yes.

Do not blame Obama for the fact Bush justified spying on Americans in almost every way imaginable. The plans had to have existed prior to 9- 11. They just needed a justification to put them in play. I would say a good analogy would be trying to hold back a damm with a crack in it. You can resist for only so long before forces beyond your control take over. Specifically I think there is too much money invested... Too many people employed... Too much technology being used to reverse course in 2008. Frankly we do not torture any more as a direct policy decision. We do not kidnap people and put them on flights to other Countries where torture is somewhat ok. Most people in this thread are so Anti Obama they blame him if the dog across the street barks. You have to find blame for the fact this police state has been placed around us while you sat back and watched TV and worried about the fact they might alter the law so guns might just be a little harder to aquire. More people died in Chicago last year from Gun Violence than terrorist attack in the entire US. Yet we are not closing down Chicago. We are not going to war with Chicago. We have not suspended the Constitution so as to track down gang members.!Yet you are willing to give up your 4th admendment rights of privacy in the dim hopes we might stop a terrorist attack.

Terrorists are not as dumb as you apparently think they are. They know we are scooping up all electronic data basically world wide and they are either operating on the deep web or they have adjusted their tactics to remain hidden.

The leaks of classified documents revealed the existence of two surveillance programs, which the government operates under the authority of Section 215 of the USA Patriot Act and Section 702 of the FISA Amendments Act. The former green-lights the collection of Americans’ phone records and the latter authorizes foreign surveillance.

reply to post by GArnold




Try again.

reply to post by neo96


He's an idiot. The "trade off" he's talking about in each of those cases is a trade off of safety/security for a freedom. EVERYONE complains about the airport violating a freedom/right. Same with checkpoints. Those are borh small potatoes compared to this massive spider web we're all tangled up in.

reply to post by neo96


Everything he is discussing are directly attributable to Bush's policies. Again.. Obama had big ideas. The truth is he ran up against a program that was so big and out of control he had no way to fight what was allready in place. Too much had been invested by 2007 to reverse course. There is no way to fight this program without disclosing how it works who it targets etc in order to sway public opinion to his side. The problem is this is as highly classified a program as we have. It is so compartmentalized that I bet 10 people or less know the true scope of Prism/Stellar Wind. But it is cool blame Obama for a program that allready in place for at least 6-7 years ( Obama has been in office for 5)... legal justifications allready written etc. Stellar wind was in place. They were snagging US citizens data from 2002 on at least.

Logically your argument is like blaming your supermarket for the fact you had a flat tire. Blame Obama for a program that he did not start and had been in place almost a decade before he had any influence over it. My argument is he ran up against a military complex/spy industry that was too massive and powerful for him to take on. There is so much at stake.., I would not doubt he would have ended up dead if he had picked a fight.

reply to post by GArnold


Ok I will hold Obama accountable for a program that HAS BEEN in place for 6-7 years programs already knew about, and did nothing.

Instead of the standard blame Bush

reply to post by GArnold


They are just trying to win cheap points by blaming someone irrellevant to the patriot act. Sure democrats could have stopped it or at least slowed it down if they wanted to, but the 9-11 trainwreck created by republicans is too much of a hot potato to handle by anyone. Even Ron Paul and Gary Johnson don't touch 9-11 with a 10 foot flagpole.

National Security Agency was created by the national security act of 1947, and up till 2001 was used only for foreign surveillance. Patriot Act changed lots of things for the worse.

reply to post by neo96


Ok.. Well your gonna blame Obama no matter what actually happened or what reality is. You will blame him if the Sun is shining or it is raining or anything in between. Reagan said "No new taxes" then raised them 2 years later. No one running for President since say 1950 has lived up to even 50% of their campaign promises. Neo where were you in 2002-3 when this program was taking off? Where was your outrage then? You sat by for 12 years before you could muster up the courage to say something? Very hypocritical of you now to blame someone who had nothing to do with the programs inception or direction. How many other Presidents do you hold to the same standard as Obama? He has actually kept more of his campaign promises that any candidate since 1950.


Don't let the truth or actual reality get in the way of your Obama bashing though..

reply to post by GArnold


So?

He was fully aware of government spying made it an issue, and 5 years later some how ' it' Bush's fault.

Doesn't fly.

Especially since those powers were expanded under the current administration.

Don't let the truth or actual reality get in the way of your Obama bashing though.

Hilarious as anyone who blames Bush for EVERYTHING doesn't know truth when it's put in front of theim.

The reality is Obama is the current Potus and he is accountable tough luck if people don't like him being held to the same standards that were set for the last potus.

reply to post by GArnold


Obama ran on transparency.

Yep he's transparent alright, he is letting us know he believes in the same stuff Bush believed in, that spying on US citizens is the good thing to do for the common good...he's just forgetting a few details is all.

Those of us who don't like the snooping in our daily affairs, telephone calls, faxes, bank records, health records, purchases at the grocery, didn't like it when Bush authorized cell phone tracking and we don't like it now. Democrats reportedly didn't believe in the PATRIOT Act but passed it anyways and then complained it was all Bushs doing, now Bobo is popo and it's still all bush's fault. It is funny if not downright ridiculous.

Blame Obama for a program that he did not start and had been in place almost a decade before he had any influence over it.

But bobo came right out and supported the NSA snooping. It is not going to work with popo just being along on a ride he seems to have nothing to do with. It is posturing at best. He is a big govt statist period!

While I vehemently oppose the NSA spying....your statements counter to what Obama is saying is just downright stupid.

Well in a free society there are not checkpoints at airports in fact that is not the America most of us older people grew up in.

What sort of freedom are you talking about? The freedom to bring bombs on planes, the freedom to bring guns on planes?

That's just not freedom.

I've been through the checkpoints at airports. They were non-intrusive. The stories you hear on this site are exaggerations, and exceptions to the rule.

Do not take this as me trying to say the NSA spying is okay, because it's not.

I'm just saying your argument, Neo, is stupid.

Originally posted by jude11
Many people are confused as to what a TRUE Traitor and Dictator looks like.

Now you know.

Peace

I kind of hope a real dictator comes along in a few years, just so you can see what one is really like.
Someone who would blow up your house for saying what you say.

Now traitor and liar, quite possibly. But speaking in these emotional over the top terms, like "dictator," make you all look like buffoons.

But, but the NSA spying protects you from the terrorists we train and fund.

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

 

Then he is a liar after all the Utah doesn't need this new fangle data center if that was just the case.

www.sltrib.com...

That puppy right there is for us little people.

Yeah and they want us to pay for it! lol Why not put a data center together for free public use? Well huh they can't do that cause peace is bad for business. Terrorism is where the big money is.

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by jude11

 

Remember Ron Paul? He wasn't on their play list.

Sept 6, 1984

We were warned almost 30 years ago!!!

...and have been warned many times since!!

Well Sea Bag

what i see in this video that is so Ironic is that date he is saying it ! 1984 ( Orwellian 1984 )
and Does Anyone Know whats On that back Wall of the House of Representatives !


Heres a video of the same Year representing a Computer that can do Online Networking Communications expanding the Communication line !

MacTerminal
en.wikipedia.org...

Click here for more information.

Originally posted by coastlinekid
reply to post by Ghost375

 

"I kind of hope a real dictator comes along in a few years"... yeah I bet you do... SHILL...

2nd

Taking a quote out of context and calling me a shill....brilliant /sarcasm

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by Pervius

 

In the United States of America, Companies are not under the Constitution. It wasn't written for them, about them and certainly not to restrict them. It certainly comes to function that way through the courts at times, but there was not even a passing thought given to that when the top 10 points were written. In fact, outside the 10th Amendment, even the states aren't largely a focus or taking any particular role in the U.S. Constitution.

That is a Federal set of restrictions to limit their conduct. I think the thread about corporate abuse is down the hall behind the door marked 'Derailers Anonymous'. Just my thoughts...when rationalization and justification become the ONLY defense to outrageous Federal conduct.

That is a pretty corporatist perspective to take. The software and hardware that is used to spy on you is designed and developed by the private sector often times before the contracts are purchased by federal entities.

It is beautiful how corporatist conservatives ignore the symbiosis because the cabal has been trained to think business is some Christ-like endeavor... Continue to pretend not to notice that the big government dance is simple a dance for money, by business, for business, in the benefit of business.