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The fact that your fear is coming from an object you were apparently wholly ignorant of just hours ago should serve some indication of the sincerity and value of that outrage.
Originally posted by TDawgRex
reply to post by Wrabbit2000
I'm of the belief that if you want parts for a weapon and you order it on-line, it should be sent to a FFL dealer (Usually a sporting goods store). At least that way there would be a return policy at a minimum.
Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by thisguyrighthere
The ATF regulation sheet literally takes one page.
The idea of guns being 100% and totally without regulation is, again, patently insane to my view.
Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by thisguyrighthere
Tis the morning for some mild disagreement it seems. Generally I see the same as the other gun rights supporters here.
However, I have never held a position that NO regulation should exist on firearms and I never will. The attitude of having tons of regulation or absolutely none with nothing fair between.....is just crazy.
The established mentally ill shouldn't have a firearm or ability to ever own one. Violent or repeat felons, in my view, should not own or ever have the ability to own a firearm. As two examples. Basically, the federal regulations as they stand now and have for a few decades with a little correction, perhaps, to some very liberal exceptions made over the years on things like convicts on major felony crimes. (I was SHOCKED to find how many states don't care about felony convictions anymore and allow gun ownership anyway). The basic set of regs work pretty well for common sense in my view and have, all this time.
Included with all that, as I had understood it, was the need to register (at time of manufacture/creation) and include a serial number on every functional firearm not exempt by age or special collector status. I simply haven't had the time to really look into this on the 80% rifles but something still seems odd on all that. Anyway, whatever the case.....The ability to buy every last item to build a complete AR-15 rifle from retail outlets without ever filing out paperwork or seeing an FFL in the standard procedure stikes me as fundamentally flawed and frankly, insane.
Unfortunately, it's a dandy way for the anti-gun side to look, see a REAL issue that most average people, like myself for instance, can actually agree on and then take the agreement of an inch and run it a mile. It's a real bad spot this creates...because they will fix this. Especially with a shooting likely having now happened in a high profile way as a result of it....and by someone with a psychiatric history, at that. They'll never JUST fix this one thing that may well need it without hurting 20 other things too..and that's the problem.
edit on 14-6-2013 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by NavyDoc
You can call a spade a pick axe... but it's still a spade to everyone else. After having a chance to look at these and actually see what California is so pissed about. I DO see their point, given their state laws. Now here in Missouri, we have true full automatic weapons on the gun show tables and right up to M-249 machine guns. That is what federal allows....with the Class III of course. It's a world apart and I live in Missouri, not California for a number of reasons. That would be among them.
However, when in Rome, as they say...and Cali does have their little issues for those who willingly live there. That's a personal issue for those who choose the state.
Tell me how this is anything but the proverbial spade though.
AR-15 20rd "Repair Kit" to bypass Cali magazine law
That's so blatant, I can see why they are hopping mad.
....and I was with ya on the 80% thing as not really knowing what that was about. I'd even be with you in this example which follows on the link......until getting to the bottom 1/3rd of the page.
80% AR-15 Lower Receiver
Block of aluminum? Yeah... That's playing extremely creative with the wording when the kit to line the drill up and just follow instructions with an afternoon to spare gets you what you can't own there. A fully functional AR-15 lower receiver.
There is a lot to be said for living in a state where games like that aren't necessary. It would probably be a lot better all around though if people who want to own a good rifle just left the state that is determined to keep them illegal forever. There is still a good % of the nation who don't outlaw them.
Source
How do I finish a lower?
You do not need to have any machining experience in order to finish our 80% lower receivers. If you rent time on a CNC machine at a machine shop that hosts 80% lower “build parties”, finishing your lower is as simple as turning a couple bolts and pressing the “start” button on the CNC mill.
Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by NavyDoc
Silly on banning the magazines? Of course it is.... Again, I live in a state where it's 100% open, legal and in no danger of changing. I wouldn't move to a state where it's not legal. That's the thing...
I was talking to Tdawg about this yesterday and I really have no problem with parts assembly at all. It's a great and economic way to build out a rifle. My SOLE issue here ....but it's a BIG one... is that the part is 100% and totally without any controls or even age restriction. You have to have someone with a ring of keys unlock an armored cage in California for a can of spray paint. No kidding..you really do! ...but a kid can buy this and spend half a day with common power tools to have the same functional rifle I owned after apparently being a big sucker in purchasing it properly and legally from an FFL. It just kinda floors me on that point.
Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by NavyDoc
Well, before someone came up with this idea, it was a pretty simple thing. The lower was the firearm, hence, the part needing the purchase by the regulations, ergo, a kid wasn't going to mail order it and play rambo by morning after it delivers.
I don't really care what part is chosen since they did pretty well make the lower a moot point here. It just seems ridiculous that 99% of the firearms in the nation require the standard B.S. we've always had, at least my whole life, to buy ....except THIS one. Okay, maybe there are a few others I haven't heard about either, but you get my point.
Selling private party is a whole different matter and guns sell by classified ads for face to face parking lot sales here. 100% legal. No problem. It's private party and how that ought to be....but buying retail? No nothing? No age, no background call to NICS...absolutely nothing whatsoever but an afternoon with a power drill to have the full working rifle? I'm literally sitting here baffled at how I seem to be the only one that sees a problem with this picture??
Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by thisguyrighthere
I get your position. The problem is... We don't live in a nation that agrees with it.