Santa Monica Gunmen's weapon assembled in bedroom??

Okay, now as many people know, the AR-15 Rifle comes in two parts. An Upper and Lower receiver. The lower receiver is what carries the trigger mechanism and parts related to it, as well as the butt stock and recoil spring. It also carries the serial number and is the part that needs to be registered as a firearm. The uppers can be bought all day long by anyone. If you don't have a lower? You have a very expensive club to beat someone over the head with and nothing more.

At least...I THOUGHT the lower required a serial number and registration. Okie... NOW I say I see a loophole in gun regulations and it's big enough to drive my old 18 wheeler right on through with room to pass!!

LOS ANGELES (AP) — The assault-style rifle used by a Santa Monica gunman to kill five people last week appears to have been put together using component parts, according to two officials briefed on the investigation.

The officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the ongoing investigation, said the semi-automatic weapon appears to have been built with parts that are legal to obtain, but put together make the rifle illegal in California.

At THIS stage of the story, I'm thinking to myself... Yeah... More idiots that know nothing about firearms and only think they do. It's common enough to be forgiven the assumption. I'd be rich if I had a nickle for everyone that spouts off about what they 'Know' and is patently wrong about. However.... This one? Well, read on folks...

The drill press is used to help finish building the rifle by drilling holes in the lower receiver. A lower receiver that is only 80 percent complete can easily be purchased, and because it is not complete a person isn't required to go through a background check nor does it need to have a serial number.

Source

Say WHAT?! No background and no serial means no age limit either, if that hadn't immediately occurred to anyone. My kid could buy the whole damn rifle and with a little knowledge anyone in a shop class would have gotten, make himself a fully functional AR- platform rifle.

Now *THAT* is what I call a loophole. The lower should require the serial and what goes with it. Period. I can't believe that garbage actually flies???

It's not hard at all to finish an 80% lower even with a hand drill.

Some polymer 80% lowers are making their way to market and they'd be even easier to finish.

polymer80.com...

mujahadeenar15a2.tripod.com...

It's worth mentioning there is no law prohibiting you from making a gun from scratch or anything else as long as that gun doesnt violate any NFA laws and the maker isnt prohibited from owning a firearm.

Also worth noting I ordered one of those polymer lowers to see if it is indeed easier to finish than an aluminum one. I'll make thread of the process once I get it. Should be by the end of July.

Thanks for posting this information, its sad that it took an act of extreme violence to open peoples eyes to this.

There are lots of loopholes in the fire arm laws, like making SBR rifles legal by filing paperwork that bypasses the regulations.....because you built it yourself.

Some states its perfectly legal to build your own rifles that are non transferable, that otherwise would be illegal.

I can see the outrage over an 80% lower.

However it's not as simple as drill a few holes in the receiver and "viola" you have a gun. It's entire trigger mechanism housing it solid. It must be machined using an exact template. Wrong width/depth and it will not function. Off slightly on the pin holes and it won't function.

I don't know where or how this got his weapon. I chalk the whole story up to another "it's legal to hunt humans with a 30 round magazine". Couldn't get a ban, couldn't get a registry, so they go after "blanks". The politicians and the media are still scrambling to get a foot in the door. They will spin and misquote and make up #e as long as they can get that first crack in the dam.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


No offense Wrabbit, but I thought you knew of this. Of course I'm to lazy to look into your historical posts. Hey I'm retired now, I can be lazy now and then.

I don't know if it's just me, but I've seen threads and ads all over the web for these for the past two years.

They sell jigs that hold the 80% lowers for material removal via any drill press. they have the proper holes all set up just drill and go.......it really is that easy.

AR15 Forum

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


There is a great Survival forum thread by Thunderheart on how to work on your own 80% Lower Receiver. Its from January of this year.

"Why All Survivalist Need To Know What An 80% Lower Receiver Is"
www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by TDawgRex


You'll have to forgive me...I haven't been in the market for buying any firearms in a couple years. I've been selling, if anything and not looking to get more. Aside from that, I loved AR's until I owned one. Then I learned to hate them and generally lose all respect for the design and function. So I've been a bit behind on this.

It's not the ability to order parts that bothers me...It's the glaring loophole...as I sure will call this one...that allows a 100% fully complete long gun with no serial number, no record and no accountability.

Again, what would ever stop a teenager from ordering the parts up and just finishing the work in a well equipped garage his parents may have? It's a scary thing I wasn't aware of. I knew you could get everything BUT the lower..and again, that's fine. The entire package though? At least ONE part of it ought to be serial numbered and with the same regs as any firearm in the nation, IMO.

Jeezuz Wrabbit, ive been looking to buy one of those partly finished recievers...
They come with the steel dies which place the holes where they are supposed to go.....
You just bolt the die/positioner in plce and drill with the appropriate size drill....the aluminium alloy is easy to dril too....
Send me a dozen

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Well, for the most part, you have to order these lowers on-line to the best of my knowledge (I haven't seen them in stores). Of course, that doesn't make things better after the fact though does it?

I'm of the belief that if you want parts for a weapon and you order it on-line, it should be sent to a FFL dealer (Usually a sporting goods store). At least that way there would be a return policy at a minimum.

Off topic, I love the AR platform as it is easily customizable, but just like cars, there's junk and there are Rolls Royces out there. Ya get what ya pay for. And of course, the Rolls costs more to fix.

As for the teenager thing...I used to do all sorts of now illegal things that back then would just earn me a slap on the wrist from the cops. My buddies say I'm the reason they can no longer have fun.

reply to post by TDawgRex


Fully agreed on the FFL requirement as a min. That would work. At least someone would lay direct eyes on the buyer and know it isn't a 15 year old with a green dot debit card or a raving lunatic, foaming at the mouth.

My opinion of the AR- platform is based entirely on having bought a stock standard issue gas operated rifle. The piston version was about $3,000 on the same table and I flat didn't have a way to justify such an expense. There was a used Barrett .50 on another table that day for about the same price, had I had the money to spend at that level.

I'm thinking I may have a totally different impression of them if I'd had the piston driven model. The gas blowback though? Oh... What idiot came up with ....Oh, yeah. Nvm. I only need to recall what platform lost the competition way back when and how close our guys came to getting something quite a bit better from Mr. Stoner.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by TDawgRex

 

My opinion of the AR- platform is based entirely on having bought a stock standard issue gas operated rifle. The piston version was about $3,000 on the same table and I flat didn't have a way to justify such an expense. There was a used Barrett .50 on another table that day for about the same price, had I had the money to spend at that level.

I'm thinking I may have a totally different impression of them if I'd had the piston driven model. The gas blowback though? Oh... What idiot came up with ....Oh, yeah. Nvm. I only need to recall what platform lost the competition way back when and how close our guys came to getting something quite a bit better from Mr. Stoner.

They both have their good points and bad. When a piston system breaks...you’re screwed. But if you are prepared and have some wire, you can unblock a gas impingement system. But one overheats a whole of a lot faster than the other. Been there, done that. I'll take a piston any day.

Ooo! That sounds oh so wrong.

The thing is, Anybody can come up any number of scenarios and research them on the web and do a damn-damn on anybody they pick.

The genie is out of the bottle. The only way to stop it is to censor or shut down the web. And even then, there are people with education and/or imagination.

i have seen a AR lower made from plates of AL bolted together.
this type build would be classed as a 0% lower
t3.gstatic.com...:ANd9GcROkNJXZ1u-0ZRknBuLkVSqhK3Q-95_HwXzEM4lxliw8ybO1YLCUg

www.pagunblog.com...

www.ronpaulforums.com...**Homemade-weapons**/page7






The most lethal weapon each of us has is the gray matter between our ears.

Originally posted by ANNED

The most lethal weapon each of us has is the gray matter between our ears.

Exactly! And since a second is the rule...

Should have bought the barrett

Something just hit me like a brick. (pow)

What the hell is the point of all these new gun laws proposed to control the trafficking and movement of firearms, such as the multiple state multi-sale registry that is now a part of things in the border states? Why share with Mexico, who buys guns?

Do they just assume IQ's drop by 50 points by sheer nationality when one crosses south, or what?! Really, think about this. Perhaps buying complete rifles and going through the checks made sense before the added hassles and record keeping but now?? Why wouldn't the Mexicans it's supposedly intended to prevent from stockpiling purchases just order a few hundred 80% lower receivers and once they have them south, put a small shop to work like any other labor shop down there, converting them all the rest of the 20% to a full rifle??

Would the 80% lower even qualify as a firearm to the Mexican authorities on the border? I'm guessing they wouldn't see the cute attempt at a play on technical issues.....but the American side supposedly stopping the smuggling? They must follow "the law" or those they bust will have a small army of lawyers up their tails with microscopes for months.

Wow.... I know I should have known about this ability to get a whole AR-15 without so much as a paper to file, and from retail outlets at that ....but I didn't. Now that I do, the wider implications for what it basically makes worthless are incredible. The ATF and Policy makers DO know about it, I'm sure.. So WTH??

Not bashing the AR platform, but I've never liked them except for the weight.
My cousin was in Vietnam from 1958 to 1965 (Naval Counter-insurgency) when the first M16s came out.
Having actually fought alongside the French for a bit, he preferred his (heavy) Thompson SMG for jungle work.
He was also carrying the M14 for recon and LRP. According to him - the .556 round just couldn't cut through the bush during engagements with the enemy.

It may unAmerican or considered unpatriotic, but I've always preferred the 7.62x39 AK round, even though those battle rifles are quite a bit heavier than the AR. And BTW, there's plenty of AK 80% lowers around as well.

ganjoa

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


They already do. So do other "gun-free" bastions like Ireland and Australia. In the last year several weapons factories, mostly making folded sheet metal Luty style subguns, were discovered in those countries specifically and we all know when one is found a dozen others are not. That's true for roaches, corrupt cops, bribe taking politicians, drug dealers and weapons factories alike.

Which brings us all right back to gun laws only affect the law abiding.

Anyone with simple hand tools can fabricate a gun. Depending on the time window and the tools in hand it can either be a Chinese nail gun conversion, a nail and a piece of pipe or a full on 9mm subgun.

This is a fun blog: Impro Guns

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


Tis the morning for some mild disagreement it seems. Generally I see the same as the other gun rights supporters here.

However, I have never held a position that NO regulation should exist on firearms and I never will. The attitude of having tons of regulation or absolutely none with nothing fair between.....is just crazy.

The established mentally ill shouldn't have a firearm or ability to ever own one. Violent or repeat felons, in my view, should not own or ever have the ability to own a firearm. As two examples. Basically, the federal regulations as they stand now and have for a few decades with a little correction, perhaps, to some very liberal exceptions made over the years on things like convicts on major felony crimes. (I was SHOCKED to find how many states don't care about felony convictions anymore and allow gun ownership anyway). The basic set of regs work pretty well for common sense in my view and have, all this time.


Included with all that, as I had understood it, was the need to register (at time of manufacture/creation) and include a serial number on every functional firearm not exempt by age or special collector status. I simply haven't had the time to really look into this on the 80% rifles but something still seems odd on all that. Anyway, whatever the case.....The ability to buy every last item to build a complete AR-15 rifle from retail outlets without ever filing out paperwork or seeing an FFL in the standard procedure stikes me as fundamentally flawed and frankly, insane.

Unfortunately, it's a dandy way for the anti-gun side to look, see a REAL issue that most average people, like myself for instance, can actually agree on and then take the agreement of an inch and run it a mile. It's a real bad spot this creates...because they will fix this. Especially with a shooting likely having now happened in a high profile way as a result of it....and by someone with a psychiatric history, at that. They'll never JUST fix this one thing that may well need it without hurting 20 other things too..and that's the problem.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by thisguyrighthere

 

Tis the morning for some mild disagreement it seems.

Hardly mild. This is a fundamental and irreconcilable disagreement.

There is either liberty or there isnt.

I cant get on board with nonsense like scarlet letters, arbitrary licensing, serial numbering, health prohibitions, or anything else.

The fact that your fear is coming from an object you were apparently wholly ignorant of just hours ago should serve some indication of the sincerity and value of that outrage.