The Zimmerman Trial

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


If your police did their job properly, nobody would have needed to apply political pressure to a situation.

although i feel zimmerman should face some accountability for his actions, according to the laws and the weak evidence provided by the state, i have a feeling the jury will come up with a not guilty verdict with a very slim chance of a manslaughter conviction. honestly i think the prosecution did a good job. i guess it all depends on if the jury believes it was george screaming and if his injuries show that zimmerman had reasonable reason to believe his life was in imminent danger, both of which i do not believe. in my opinion it was trayvon screaming for his life when he realized zimmerman had a gun. 2nd i find it hard to believe that zimmerman was able to get his gun out from being holstered while trayvon was "beating him to death" perhaps thats why zimmerman was getting hit because he didn't bother fighting back just going for his gun. i realize that is speculation but to me it makes much more sense, i don't believe zimmerman had to scream for his life he knew he had the gun and could end it within seconds if he could pull out his gun. 3rd i believe those injuries were insignificant to the point that zimmerman refused medical treatment, if his injuries were as life threatening he would have certainly needed immediate medical attention. these are just my opinions and i am entitled to them, they carry no weight and may not even be able to be used in making a decision on the case because admittedly it is mostly speculation. i would not argue with a not guilty or manslaughter conviction, 2nd degree murder could not be proven IMO. on the other hand i would hate to see the backlashes from the pro zimmerman "legal eagles" on here if zimmerman is convicted.

Originally posted by IvanAstikov
reply to post by GogoVicMorrow

 

If your police did there job properly, nobody would have needed to apply political pressure to a situation.

That's ignorant. They did their jobs perfectly. You know that because you can see that there is absolutely no case against Zimmerman. The cops would have saved the millions in wasted tax payer dollars. There was even one cop that was trying to charge Zimmerman but he was over ruled because there was no case.

The political pressure was for political gain, not out of a desire for justice. The cops were right and they will be proven right at the end of this joke of a trial.

Originally posted by conspiracy nut
although i fell zimmerman should face some accountability for his actions, according to the laws and the weak evidence provided by the state, i have a feeling the jury will come up with a not guilty verdict with a very slim chance of a manslaughter conviction. honestly i think the prosecution did a good job. i guess it all depends on if the jury believes it was george screaming and if his injuries show that zimmerman had reasonable reason to believe his life was in imminent danger, both of which i do not believe. in my opinion it was trayvon screaming for his life when he realized zimmerman had a gun.

Well of course it wasn't Martin screaming. Everyone with the least bit of common sense knows that.

The screams were on going well before the shot was fired.

Zimmerman told the police he was screaming before he ever knew the screams were recorded on a 911 call

Many many more credible witnesses claimed it was Zimmerman

It sounds more like Zimmerman than Martin (after hearing both their voices)

Tracy Martin (Trayvon's dad) told the police it wasn't his son and didn't ask to hear the tape again until people made a big deal a month or so later.

Martin was beating Zimmerman and it makes little sense that Martin would be screaming for help while doing so.

Zimmerman was likely screaming in part to let the police locate them since he knew they were close.

2nd i find it hard to believe that zimmerman was able to get his gun out from being holstered while trayvon was "beating him to death" perhaps thats why zimmerman was getting hit because he didn't bother fighting back just going for his gun. i realize that is speculation but to me it makes much more sense, i don't believe zimmerman had to scream for his life he knew he had the gun and could end it within seconds if he could pull out his gun. 3rd i believe those injuries were insignificant to the point that zimmerman refused medical treatment, if his injuries were as life threatening he would have certainly needed immediate medical attention. these are just my opinions and i am entitled to them, they carry no weight and may not even be able to be used in making a decision on the case because admittedly it is mostly speculation. i would not argue with a not guilty or manslaughter conviction, 2nd degree murder could not be proven IMO. on the other hand i would hate to see the backlashes from the pro zimmerman "legal eagles" on here if zimmerman is convicted.

I understand why you guys can't understand this case. You take everything way too lightly. He didn't want to shoot the guy if he could avoid it. Also it doesn't matter what his damage was. He feared for his life.

thats your problem, you believe everything zimmerman says, if trayvon was the one screaming we cant hear his side of the story because he's dead. have you heard trayvons voice? if so can you provide a link of his voice and the screams?

Originally posted by IvanAstikov
reply to post by crazyewok

 

I'd say gun control was a primary issue. Taking Zimmerman's word as fact, because George couldn't defend himself without a gun - despite 100 hrs minimum grappling training - if he hadn't got real lucky and had an attacker who gave up a perfectly good advantage to grab a gun he didn't allegedly need, George would have lost control of his weapon and Trayvon would have that gun he'd been after.

No its not. You dont seem to know much about a court of law.


Gun control is not to do with this.

It is only to do with did he defend himselfs within the confines of the law.


Mine or yours or the juriors virews on guns have no relavence to this.


If you dont like guns or think a law needs changing? Well you take it up with your local politician.

Reply to post by RalagaNarHallas

It is about the force continuum (which was not explained by the defense's witness, it was only picked at). Take the aggression one step higher.

If an attacker or whatever is using their hands you use an intermediary weapon. He had one, the long flashlight, but went straight to deadly force after apparently fearing for his life because of those two life-threatening cuts on the top of his head that were both less than an inch long, the apparent result of his head striking the pavement 20-25 times.

Skipping is okay when justified, meaning the intermediary weapon would not have stopped the attack and the weak man could not fight the teenager off when both of the kid's hands were on his face, leaving Z's hands and legs free.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Originally posted by conspiracy nut
thats your problem, you believe everything zimmerman says, if trayvon was the one screaming we cant hear his side of the story because he's dead. have you heard trayvons voice? if so can you provide a link of his voice and the screams?

edit on 11-7-2013 by conspiracy nut because: (no reason given)

No, I didn't believe based on Zimmerman saying. I believe because it makes the most sense. Testimony backs him and Trayvon's OWN FATHER said it wasn't him. Then there were MANY people that said it was Trayvon including people that had heard him screaming at campaigns.

Originally posted by conspiracy nut
thats your problem, you believe everything zimmerman says, if trayvon was the one screaming we cant hear his side of the story because he's dead. have you heard trayvons voice? if so can you provide a link of his voice and the screams?

edit on 11-7-2013 by conspiracy nut because: (no reason given)

If it was Trayvon screaming, why would he just scream "Help" instead of screaming, "Help, he has a gun." because if someone had a gun out on me, I know that's what I would be screaming.

Gonna say this again the Zimmerman trial is a complete farce.

The comment by the prosecutor as a 'wanna be cop'.

The child abuse charge.


What a wanna be prosecutor turn about is fair play.

Hate to say this but zimmerman might be safer in jail because if he does get off I can see some idiot shooting him down in the street.

reply to post by Tlove250


you got a picture of the "long flashlight" as you put it as when i hear that i picture a maglight not what i thought i saw in the evidence photos (small flashlight but made of metal) and so if im geting this right the state is mad he didnt use his flashlight to bash the kid in the face instead of shooting him?

well its kind of hard to use your legs effectitvely in combat with a large individual sitting on your chest and or straddling you ,also its possible cuz we are just dealing with theory here that he could have very well had one arm pinned under him and that is what led to him going for the gun behind his back as his hand was allready there

i was in a fight where the person who i was fighting got me on my back with a partial mount and a arm pinned and he kept raining blows tell i got my other hand free and got my "fistpack" out of my back pocket and knocked out his three front teeth

so i can at least see at least in theory how zimmerman drew his gun as making sense but like i said its all conjecture as other then physical evidence all we have is theory.

going by the evidence Zimmerman will walk most likely as the prosecution did a really bad job trying to disprove self defense


i2.cdn.turner.com... you mean this little flashlight was what he was suposed to use to defend him self? r you kidding me......

Originally posted by Tlove250
Reply to post by RalagaNarHallas

 

It is about the force continuum (which was not explained by the defense's witness, it was only picked at). Take the aggression one step higher.

If an attacker or whatever is using their hands you use an intermediary weapon. He had one, the long flashlight, but went straight to deadly force after apparently fearing for his life because of those two life-threatening cuts on the top of his head that were both less than an inch long, the apparent result of his head striking the pavement 20-25 times.

Skipping is okay when justified, meaning the intermediary weapon would not have stopped the attack and the weak man could not fight the teenager off when both of the kid's hands were on his face, leaving Z's hands and legs free.

 

Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

 

When he was being beaten do you think he knew the extent of his injuries? Do you think he knew what his injuries were before he shot?

As for the flashlight, he didn't have access to it. If you can't get a punch in what are the odds you can get a flashlight and hit the attacker with it. You don't seem to appreciate how much damage the person that is on top and getting the first blows in is inflicting while the victim is on bottom trying to find a way to defend himself. These things happen fast. I believe they found his flashlight on the ground a distance away (and both flashlights might have been small, I don't know).

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow

When he was being beaten do you think he knew the extent of his injuries? Do you think he knew what his injuries were before he shot?

Any blunt force trauma to the head can kill they know that, and they don't care.

They want their pound of flesh.

reply to post by caladonea

I'd rather one of my daughters date someone like George Zimmerman than someone like Travon Martin, especially when you consider the evidence that the judge did not let be presented from Travon's cell phone social media sites.

Speaking of the disallowed cell phone evidence, the judge disallowed it because the defense didn't prove that Travon was the only person with the passwords required to find the stuff. Of course, since the prosecution didn't provide the evidence until about a week before the trial started, the defense did not have much time to validate that only Travon used the phone. It took the Florida Department of Law Enforcement (FDLE) (state police lab) over a year to crack into the phone, but that didn't convince the judge that it was secure. Apparently, from her ruling the judge's child cracked her phone password.

Circular logic or conspiracy?

Originally posted by conspiracy nut
although i feel zimmerman should face some accountability for his actions, according to the laws and the weak evidence provided by the state, i have a feeling the jury will come up with a not guilty verdict with a very slim chance of a manslaughter conviction. honestly i think the prosecution did a good job. i guess it all depends on if the jury believes it was george screaming and if his injuries show that zimmerman had reasonable reason to believe his life was in imminent danger, both of which i do not believe. in my opinion it was trayvon screaming for his life when he realized zimmerman had a gun. 2nd i find it hard to believe that zimmerman was able to get his gun out from being holstered while trayvon was "beating him to death" perhaps thats why zimmerman was getting hit because he didn't bother fighting back just going for his gun. i realize that is speculation but to me it makes much more sense, i don't believe zimmerman had to scream for his life he knew he had the gun and could end it within seconds if he could pull out his gun. 3rd i believe those injuries were insignificant to the point that zimmerman refused medical treatment, if his injuries were as life threatening he would have certainly needed immediate medical attention. these are just my opinions and i am entitled to them, they carry no weight and may not even be able to be used in making a decision on the case because admittedly it is mostly speculation. i would not argue with a not guilty or manslaughter conviction, 2nd degree murder could not be proven IMO. on the other hand i would hate to see the backlashes from the pro zimmerman "legal eagles" on here if zimmerman is convicted.

edit on 11-7-2013 by conspiracy nut because: (no reason given)

The problem with one of your arguments is that Zimmerman's injuries did not need to be serious or life threatening. All that had to exist is for Z to believe he was in imminent danger of being seriously injured or killed.

That pretty much says it all. The prosecution has not challenged that with any evidence other than emotional displays and suppositions.

reply to post by neo96

Hate to say this but zimmerman might be safer in jail because if he does get off I can see some idiot shooting him down in the street.

He'll have to lay low for a while. Maybe sell a book or interview deal for big bucks and chill in Acapulco for a couple years. After that, people will forget. With the 24/7 media we have today, we all have a short attention span.

I'd be looking over my shoulder forever though if I was him........just in case.

reply to post by seabag


See this?

www.washingtontimes.com...

That entire trial is an insult to MLK.

Originally posted by RalagaNarHallas
reply to post by Tlove250

 

you got a picture of the "long flashlight" as you put it as when i hear that i picture a maglight not what i thought i saw in the evidence photos (small flashlight but made of metal) and so if im geting this right the state is mad he didnt use his flashlight to bash the kid in the face instead of shooting him?

well its kind of hard to use your legs effectitvely in combat with a large individual sitting on your chest and or straddling you ,also its possible cuz we are just dealing with theory here that he could have very well had one arm pinned under him and that is what led to him going for the gun behind his back as his hand was allready there

i was in a fight where the person who i was fighting got me on my back with a partial mount and a arm pinned and he kept raining blows tell i got my other hand free and got my "fistpack" out of my back pocket and knocked out his three front teeth

so i can at least see at least in theory how zimmerman drew his gun as making sense but like i said its all conjecture as other then physical evidence all we have is theory.

going by the evidence Zimmerman will walk most likely as the prosecution did a really bad job trying to disprove self defense

edit on 11-7-2013 by RalagaNarHallas because: (no reason given)

i2.cdn.turner.com... you mean this little flashlight was what he was suposed to use to defend him self? r you kidding me......

edit on 11-7-2013 by RalagaNarHallas because: (no reason given)

An intermediary weapon is used to stop the threat, not necessarily to kill. The state is saying Z could have taken control of the teenager that was smaller than him. Not a big kid by an streatch of the imagination; tall and thin. Yes, it is not a maglight, but I promise you if you were hit with it by a grown man who weighed more than you you would feel it.

His hands and arms were not pinned. That is kind of crazy logic, since he used one to shoot instead of strike. I mean, T kept Z’s arms in place with the force of his skinny legs while using his face as leverage? As a matter of fact, just go here, and you can also see a picture of the defense’s alleged recreation of events, which do not answer why the two scratches are at the top of Z’s head and not the center, or how he was even conscious:
www.hlntv.com...

He was lucid enough to allegedly recognize T somehow see his gun, which was holstered to his rear, and literally underneath him if he were really on his back. Then he was lucid enough to draw the weapon from beneath him, aim, and pull the trigger. Z should not walk. He confessed to manslaughter.

I apologize, because I told myself that I would not engage/feed you all. However, I really just could not take it after reading the silly responses to your question.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow

Originally posted by Tlove250
Reply to post by RalagaNarHallas

 

It is about the force continuum (which was not explained by the defense's witness, it was only picked at). Take the aggression one step higher.

If an attacker or whatever is using their hands you use an intermediary weapon. He had one, the long flashlight, but went straight to deadly force after apparently fearing for his life because of those two life-threatening cuts on the top of his head that were both less than an inch long, the apparent result of his head striking the pavement 20-25 times.

Skipping is okay when justified, meaning the intermediary weapon would not have stopped the attack and the weak man could not fight the teenager off when both of the kid's hands were on his face, leaving Z's hands and legs free.

 

Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

 

When he was being beaten do you think he knew the extent of his injuries? Do you think he knew what his injuries were before he shot?

As for the flashlight, he didn't have access to it. If you can't get a punch in what are the odds you can get a flashlight and hit the attacker with it. You don't seem to appreciate how much damage the person that is on top and getting the first blows in is inflicting while the victim is on bottom trying to find a way to defend himself. These things happen fast. I believe they found his flashlight on the ground a distance away (and both flashlights might have been small, I don't know).

This has what to do with the force continuum? When he was allegedly getting beat, as in all those times his head struck the concrete and he only received two scratches, is obviously not the point. What did I say? Go back and read what I said a couple times. Maybe I have to spell it out in here. As the fight escalates so does the force, so obviously I am talking about early on. When he was punched in the face for following a kid in the dark he should have ran or struck back with his flashlight, restrained, then called the police. However, I understand, a year or more of mma classes only got him a, what was that? One percent rating? And he thought he could serve the community by observing and reporting? And he could not even do that right? Observe, report, follow, get beat up, shoot? This is your hero? Pathetic.

reply to post by Tlove250


What does a force continuum have to do with anything? Civilians are not held to the same standards as LEO anyways, so bringing it up is kind of pointless. The expert on force continuum would have said it was justified in his opinion, if he was allowed to. He did a good job of saying it without saying it directly anyways.