Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

reply to post by VonDinkinDunken

In all fairness, if the U.S. Intelligence Community were hot on your heals, where would you run? Climax, Colorado doesn't strike me as the wisest spot to crash for awhile in his shoes. lol....

I think Hong Kong's "Special" status, even within China, makes it special somehow for his needs. Now if he goes and defects or something? My good feelings would go up in a flash....but I don't see that happening. Assange ran to an embassy and Snowden headed for Hong Kong. Both are just trying to stay alive and half way free. Neither, in my view, has done anything to deserve what I think each faces if captured by the specific people THEY are running from.

Just my thinking.

Originally posted by Maluhia
reply to post by VonDinkinDunken

 

From the original article -

On May 20, he boarded a flight to Hong Kong, where he has remained ever since. He chose the city because "they have a spirited commitment to free speech and the right of political dissent", and because he believed that it was one of the few places in the world that both could and would resist the dictates of the US government.

You're obviously unfamiliar with how our government works these days. Google IRS scandal, Quarles Harris and Vince Foster to start.

edit on 9-6-2013 by Maluhia because: (no reason given)

Aww thats so cute that he came up with a great explanation for why he went to China. It's adorable that you bought into it. Hong Kong under British rule is far different than Hong Kong under Chinrese rule. Appearance is everything and nothing. Hong Kong may have a certain appearance, but you can bet your hairy drumstick its that and nothing else.

The Chinese have far less respect for their citizenry than the US. At least in this case, the NSA appears to be operating via court and congressional approval. China doesn't have courts to approve or disapprove surveillance. They do what the he11 they want. The Chinese government has spent many decades reinforcing our perceptions that they see their people as nothing more than mere cattle.

Also, I don't honestly believe he can resist the dictates of the US government anywhere in the world, extradition treaties or not. I'm sure he knows this unless he is in denial. He ruined his life and made himself a big target for something not even remotely as nefarious as what NSA got busted for under Sultan George Bush. Guess what happened when they got busted then? Nothing.

He essentially betrayed his security clearance to "expose" the US for activities which China has been openly practicing for a very long time. Then he ran off to China.

The US has been doing all sorts of nasty things in secret for many years. And I don't agree with everything they do. Still, with respect to civil rights, our government has a far better report card than China or Iran or any of those other cesspools of tyrannical oppression.

Sometimes I think the prominent anti-Americanism abroad and at home is nothing more than very effective propaganda campaigns by some of our enemies.

The greatest fear that I have regarding the outcome for America of these disclosures is that nothing will change. People will see in the media all of these disclosures. They'll know the lengths that the government is going to grant themselves powers unilaterally to create greater control over American society and global society. But they won't be willing to take the risks necessary to stand up and fight to change things to force their representatives to actually take a stand in their interests.

And the months ahead, the years ahead it's only going to get worse until eventually there will be a time where policies will change because the only thing that restricts the activities of the surveillance state are policy. Even our agreements with other sovereign governments, we consider that to be a stipulation of policy rather then a stipulation of law. And because of that a new leader will be elected, they'll find the switch, say that 'Because of the crisis, because of the dangers we face in the world, some new and unpredicted threat, we need more authority, we need more power.' And there will be nothing the people can do at that point to oppose it.

And it will be turnkey tyranny.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by VonDinkinDunken

 

In all fairness, if the U.S. Intelligence Community were hot on your heals, where would you run? Climax, Colorado doesn't strike me as the wisest spot to crash for awhile in his shoes. lol....

I think Hong Kong's "Special" status, even within China, makes it special somehow for his needs. Now if he goes and defects or something? My good feelings would go up in a flash....but I don't see that happening. Assange ran to an embassy and Snowden headed for Hong Kong. Both are just trying to stay alive and half way free. Neither, in my view, has done anything to deserve what I think each faces if captured by the specific people THEY are running from.

Just my thinking.

Perhaps it was by convenience or on a whim that he went to China... Or perhaps he was offered a sweet little package by one of our enemies where he could receive a nice chunk of change & a promise of protection all under the guise of being a hero and a liberator of oppressed people everywhere. All he had to do is reveal valuable military secret.

this is just my speculation.

reply to post by Xcathdra

The argument being made is he severely damaged national security...

This is the argument, but it is a lame one. NSA's image may be tarnished, but I can't see how the security of this country has been damaged by this whistleblowing.

Let's put this in the proper perspective. Individuals privacy has been compromised by the government. This reminds me of when Chuck Berry put cameras in the women's bathroom of his club. Like the women being spied upon while undressing We The People are the one's who have been violated by our government whose image took a hit. I say thank you, Edward Snowden, for letting me know the government was making a private peepshow out of me and the rest of the planet.

Yeah, the government was looking for terrorists like Chuck was looking for termites. I don't buy it.

Now the butt hurt government is acting like a crime against them has been committed. What is the crime, giving the government a long overdue black eye?

Originally posted by sad_eyed_lady
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

The argument being made is he severely damaged national security...

This is the argument, but it is a lame one. NSA's image may be tarnished, but I can't see how the security of this country has been damaged by this whistleblowing.

Let's put this in the proper perspective. Individuals privacy has been compromised by the government. This reminds me of when Chuck Berry put cameras in the women's bathroom of his club. Like the women being spied upon while undressing We The People are the one's who have been violated by our government whose image took a hit. I say thank you, Edward Snowden, for letting me know the government was making a private peepshow out of me and the rest of the planet.

Yeah, the government was looking for terrorists like Chuck was looking for termites. I don't buy it.

Now the butt hurt government is acting like a crime against them has been committed. What is the crime, giving the government a long overdue black eye?

I believe our security may be compromised because our enemies now know the method by which we keep catching their sorry a$$e$. All our enemies have to do now is change their methods accordingly.

reply to post by ChaoticOrder

Lets just say you are correct, that doesn't mean the public or the courts will agree that the surveillance program was legal and that the Constitution doesn't apply to it. Most US citizens clearly do not think it was ethical.

The courts will agree that it was legal and constitutional. If some judges disagree the information collected on them and those that they care about will help to convince them.

Whether people agree that it is ethical or not is inconsequential. Obama has already warned that not trusting the constitutionally established institutions can be bad for one's health.

Originally posted by VonDinkinDunken

Originally posted by sad_eyed_lady
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

The argument being made is he severely damaged national security...

This is the argument, but it is a lame one. NSA's image may be tarnished, but I can't see how the security of this country has been damaged by this whistleblowing.

Let's put this in the proper perspective. Individuals privacy has been compromised by the government. This reminds me of when Chuck Berry put cameras in the women's bathroom of his club. Like the women being spied upon while undressing We The People are the one's who have been violated by our government whose image took a hit. I say thank you, Edward Snowden, for letting me know the government was making a private peepshow out of me and the rest of the planet.

Yeah, the government was looking for terrorists like Chuck was looking for termites. I don't buy it.

Now the butt hurt government is acting like a crime against them has been committed. What is the crime, giving the government a long overdue black eye?

I believe our security may be compromised because our enemies now know the method by which we keep catching their sorry a$$e$. All our enemies have to do now is change their methods accordingly.

What's Obama call that? Certainly not level the playing field.

What details have been divulged that the terrorists we not aware of? Seems like the eyes opened here were the non-criminals who had no idea.

Correct me if I am wrong. I don't mean to sound smug.

Who are our enemies anyway? Seems like they change quite often.

Who have we caught with all this anyway?

This is the only success mentioned by the MSM that I am aware of and it was not true.

Report: Internet spying foiled planned ’09 attack on Subway Update: Public documents contradict claims
hotair.com...

Well heck, if the government passes secret laws that take away our freedoms because of this professed necessity of combating terrorism, then who has really already won that war? What is the GOAL of terrorism?

Kind of odd that terrorism really tends to benefit the powers of the governments it supposedly attacks, now isn't it? The "needed" defenses against said terrorism provide the fuel for more powers to be consolidated into those government hands, "for your own good", of course.

The Gun Grabbing Nazis are all ready trying to do him like Manning!

Patriot Act Defenders Already Calling for NSA Leaker Edward Snowden to Be Prosecuted
www.politicususa.com...

Republicans and Democratic Senator Dianne Feinstein are already going on record calling for the prosecution of NSA leaker Edward Snowden. Patriot Act defenders Republican Rep. Mike Rogers and Democratic Sen. Dianne Feinstein called for the prosecution of the leaker this morning on ABC’s This Week.

This guy should be an inspiration and hopefully more people divulge more damning evidence against this tyrannical criminal enterprise. All these alphabet agencies are being paid by the taxpayer to encroach on our civil liberties. It is unreal, anyone with a conscious would do the same. This guy has balls of steel I hope they don't crucify him like they are trying to do to Julian Assange. Bradley Manning and so many others who have sacrificed their freedom to give us a chance to expose these criminals in Washington. Don't be surprised if they drum up some false charges either.

But these thugs will circumvent the system and grant themselves immunity as you may know, something big is coming down the pipe. I can sense it in the force. The level of damage control makes one head spin. When will enough be enough?

reply to post by Maluhia


Never been interested in looking into conspiracies but that has changed these last few days. Snowden and then Alex Jones.. Snowden makes it clear in the video that China and the US are not enemies at all and then Jones says that in "the new world order" all of the important people from various countries are in it together (while I wouldn't take it that far with the information that is currently available, I think there is some truth to this). I came across an article of websites that are blocked in China. Recurring websites were all of the websites that collaborated with PRISM, and of course China has its' own mobile providers so the US cannot have any information about its citizens. What if China was protecting its citizens? Don't know what to make of this.. the US not protecting its own citizens. This isn't just about them knowing our every move.. they also made us vulnerable to outside powers.

Originally posted by DarthFazer


The Gun Grabbing Nazis are all ready trying to do him like Manning!

Patriot Act Defenders Already Calling for NSA Leaker Edward Snowden to Be Prosecuted
www.politicususa.com...

Republicans and Democratic Senator Dianne Feinstein are already going on record calling for the prosecution of NSA leaker Edward Snowden. Patriot Act defenders Republican Rep. Mike Rogers and Democratic Sen. Dianne Feinstein called for the prosecution of the leaker this morning on ABC’s This Week.

These Patriot Act defenders ought to know this:
Author of Patriot Act: NSA Data Grab Violates It
www.breitbart.com...

This Administration hates whistleblowers.

In the past those that exposed government corruption were heroes now they are squealers. The people need to think for themselves and call bull # on the government when it is appropriate.

I think NOW is an appropriate situation and I will pick up my phone tomorrow. I don't care how long the list becomes.

This is my 2nd post and I'm probably one of the few on ATS who actually had an Above Top Secret Clearance.

I was in the United States Air Force Security Service from 1965 to 1972 and had a Top Secret Crypto/Codeword Clearance. Although I was in the Air Force I worked for the NSA (No Such Agency, Never Say Anything) I took a class in the NSA building at Fort George G. Meade, Maryland, in 1968. At the time the NSA building had the longest unobstructed hallway of any building in the world.

Back then the duties of the CIA and NSA were rather clear, CIA was political intelligence and NSA was military intelligence (yes, I'm aware of the old joke about military intelligence being a contradiction in terms!)

But back then a computer was room-sized and spit out punch-cards.Today the capabilities of a computer back then can fit onto the palm of your hand.

Today the duties of the CIA and NSA are 'fuzzy". Today our individual freedoms are becoming "fuzzy".

Smart-phones, lap-tops. tablets. Any wireless signal can be intercepted.

That was my job back then; Voice Intercept Processing Specialist. I intercepted enemy communications for the NSA. I did my small part in maintaining National Security and I was proud of it. I served in Viet-Nam from 1968 to 1970. I flew 171 combat missions and was awarded the Air Medal with 11 Oak Leaf Clusters, and the Air Force Combat Crew Badge. (Sometimes, when you need to collect military intelligence, you have to get very close to the action!)

Today it seems the Government is paranoid and every citizen is now the "enemy". We've lost our Republic and the United States of America is now a Global Empire. (Sad to say, but I'm no longer proud of my country.)

Please compare Rome and the United States. Rome was a Republic once and served as a model for our fledgling Republic in 1776. But Rome became an Empire and read up on what happened to it.

History repeats itself and what happened to Rome is happening to us now, If we don't do something about it, we will collapse and this Grand Social, Political and Economic Experiment that was the Republic of the United States of America will have been for naught.

It seems that courageous American patriots who Love Liberty are now being branded as traitors. Where will it end?

If history is any indication, it will end in Tyranny and FEMA camps filled with American citizens labelled as "terrorists".

Please don't let that happen!

Peace

Originally posted by truthsetusfree
reply to post by Maluhia

 

Recurring websites were all of the websites that collaborated with PRISM, and of course China has its' own mobile providers so the US cannot have any information about its citizens. What if China was protecting its citizens? Don't know what to make of this.. the US not protecting its own citizens. This isn't just about them knowing our every move.. they also made us vulnerable to outside powers.

Interesting observation. Here's the list of websites blocked in China. en.wikipedia.org... However, Google was in China as Google China (now hq'd in Hongkong). Google hit a lot of snags with the Chinese government and wasn't that popular compared to Baidu. Google China moved to Hong Kong because of "censorship" but they only had around a 30% market share at the time of their move to Hong Kong, which has dropped to a 5% market share. Kind of interesting though when you look at the map on the guardian page because, according to it, there is very little surveillance by the US there.

reply to post by MildBill


Thank you. I very much appreciate the time that you took to sign up and write this. My grandfather was USAF (NAF Chief of Staff at March AFB 1974) and former military intelligence. He passed away 7 years ago but I knew his thoughts on many things well enough to know that he would be equally appalled at the circumstances today. Because he was what he was, I also know that it's really pretty difficult to come forward like you did in your post with that kind of past. As a kid, he'd made sure that I learned how to do a proper salute and if I could, I'd salute you, sir.

I salute this guy for his courage and good morals.

reply to post by MildBill


I hate to be off topic, but in reference to your first post, I looked it up and it is simply brilliant.

Welcome aboard.

reply to post by Bilk22


I too wondered about the jobs he was listing because of his age. It would seem that some of the positions he mentions would be something that you would work up to. I also noticed that he mentioned more than a few different jobs, usually job hopping is frowned on???

Honestly I don't think the high school thing matters too much. The network admin where I work didn't graduate from HS. Instead he dropped out got his GED and started college at 16....just a thought.