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Originally posted by deadeyedick
reply to post by Akragon
Are you sure that your definition of killing and death has merit to the kingdom of GOD in this case?
The fact that the Devil practiced the ritual of Baptism over 2000 years before it was even used in Christianity has truly amazed historians!
Pagan water purification rituals were used in the archaic Near East and are written about in the Old Testament. Homer mentions the washing of hands before prayer, and the purification of an entire army with water [Iliad, 1.313].
The Greeks even had priests, kathartai, who specialized in purification with water. Mithra's followers celebrated the sacrament of taurobolium—baptism in the blood of a bull, with the result of "Salvation." Pagans at Gerasa celebrated the Maioumas, rites in which women bathed and were purified in a sacred pool outside town.
New members into the Mysteries of Isis / Osiris began their initiation with a sprinkling of purifying waters brought from the Nile. The result of the baptism and initiation? Salvation
None of that is worth a squirt of piss if they do not have faith in Jesus since he mastered the secrets of GOD. To me that is what most fail to realize is that any power wielded now or in the future will only be givin by Jesus in order to save or deceive. These pagan deities have already lost the battle because the cross was the price of the kingdom. Put your faith in false bs and your faith will be in vain.
It seems clear to me that John and Jesus were drowning folks that volunteered to surrender their lives through faith that they would be reborn.
"Since the Dawn Age, the ironborn have followed the Drowned God, who plucked fire from the sea, and made us to reave and sack, and carve our names in blood and song."
Resurrection figures prominently in the religion, in the form of being revived from drowning. The Drowned God itself is said to have drowned in the sea, for the sake of the ironborn, but returned to life "harder and stronger". However, drowning is also employed as a method of sacrificing enemies to the Drowned God.
Game of Thrones wiki - Drowned God
Doesn't Lazarus story make this verse hard to understand? And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: In Lazarus case it was Jesus faith that restored him. With water or fire baptism it is the one that will receive the gift that has to have faith in GOD in order to be saved.
Originally posted by DISRAELI
reply to post by deadeyedick
I think that if there was genuine death and rebirth, the gospels would have said so.
The resurrections of Lazarus and Jairus' daughter are frankly described, to show the power of God at work.
If the same thing had been happening in baptism, it would not have been concealed, for the same reason.
In any case, a power which could belong only to Jesus would not have been evident in the acts of John the Baptist, and Jesus himself did not baptise (John ch4 v2).
You can't use "Rome" as a get-out clause for the absence of evidence, because "Rome", in that sense, did not exist at the time. In fact "Rome" has never dominated the church as a whole, only the western church
edit on 7-6-2013 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)
I am suggesting that none of that is relevant to today because Jesus the son of GOD won all power in these matters on the cross. He has written the ending and we should follow his lead.
Originally posted by deadeyedick
]Doesn't Lazarus story make this verse hard to understand? And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
American Standard Version
(although Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples),