ATS knew about "Eschelon" Years Ago...Are we still Conspiracy Theorists if we were Right?

reply to post by bekod


Yeah, probably so.
It is my personal opinion that this leak was intentional. It serves as a distraction from the other scandals they got going.
It was comical to hear Obama say that he welcomes debate on this issue. Of course he does! Forget about the IRS, Holder, and Benghazi. Instead lets talk about this. Thing is, this has been going on for years. Obama can say he didn't start this program, and in fact he already has.

It serves as a distraction and intimidation. To reiterate, he said TODAY that if you don't just trust him unequivocally, then there will "be problems."

Treason? A case could be argued for sure.

reply to post by JayinAR
High Crimes and Misdemeanors is more to the point of what is going on in the WH and by some high ranking officials, the thing is , how to get them charged??? when all they have to say is, " National Security" , it is like they have Carte blanche to do what ever they please. For you that do not know what High Crimes and Misdemeanors is www.constitution.org... I have a strong itchy toe feeling that Obama will be King Obama before his term is up or the 22nd will be ruled out.

Originally posted by bekod
reply to post by JayinAR

 

High Crimes and Misdemeanors is more to the point of what is going on in the WH and by some high ranking officials, the thing is , how to get them charged??? when all they have to say is, " National Security" , it is like they have Carte blanche to do what ever they please..

Almost anything could be justified if you claim "National Security".

I think we just started down a very slippery slope.

Nobody will get charged. Nothing will change.

All they have to do is claim they stopped one person. How can we be against that?

Just thought we should point this out...

Originally posted by whyamIhere

All they have to do is claim they stopped one person. How can we be against that?

Exactly.

I mean, you CAN be against it. You can protest it on principle but no one will listen. No one will care. If it comes down to a shouting match between principles (even the best ones) and stopping a few criminals, the public will shout you down every time.

Why would they build this huge complex and not have the ability to listen.

When the full truth comes out...They will find out they just did not take the data.

Does anyone believe they are not listening?

I have known about ECHELON for years.

I can actually remember years (and that's going back at least 10 or 12 years) ago in school doing a report on it for English

I have a cousin who worked on the SKYNET five program and held COSMIC security clearance for his job as he had to test out the secure radio frequencies. We went out for a drink once and got talking about Conspiracies and i asked him about ECHELON he told me that it wasn't actually called ECHELON but in short yes a system like that existed.

what is interesting is that ECHELON (or what ever it is really called probably now the PRISM program) has traditionally been a agreement with British, American, Australian/New Zealand and Canadian services who spy on each others citizens deliberately. So for example GCHQ would spy on Americans and the NSA keep a tab on brits and they would all shear the info.

There is a listening post in the UK, Menwith Hill that is part of ECHELON.

its a pretty big system but relies on the supercomputers at Fort Meade to assess them the human factor is a huge limitation.

i might actually try to see if i still have a copy of that old report......

I have first hand experience of talking about Echelon and it's derivatives for the last 15 years or so, and getting the blank, wide eyed 'oh no...he's a nutter' look or reply in a post.

The truth is folks....'they' (yours and mine) have already been spying on us since the internet took off.

It's just these days, with people allowing governments and their shifty agencies to get away with just about anything without hardly a peep, never mind sackings and court cases, they feel now able to 'leak' the info almost daring us to try and do something about it.

And of course, nothing will be done about it, a few moans will be moaned, a few questions asked in congress and parliament and then that'll be the extent of the peoples passion regarding this stuff.

Originally posted by smurfy

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by whyamIhere

 

Oh but but but...They promise, it's only phone dialing and connection records. You aren't suggesting that No Such Agency would lie, are you? Surely not... Not to us... After all, we are "We the People". We pay their salaries. If they say they don't listen into our chats and peep into our private lives, I for one, believe them 100%. Yes sir.

Now ...someone, tell me where I get this oddly growing nose looked at? It seems to have gained a full inch while typing. It's the craziest thing.

edit on 7-6-2013 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)

Exactly, it doesn't take a brain surgeon to realise that the NSA, once they get a number, or a mobile/cell number they can do all the listening themselves, without anybody knowing. Their HQ building in Maryland has maxed out on power because of the amount of installation going on, and even the power utility can't supply them any more extra power. They have the most powerful computers ever made, and they have a company making them bespoke chips designed specifically for intelligence gathering, They operate at all levels, and as somebody has said, could be looking in now

to them.

Yes, hence the building of the San Antonio data center in 2010 and the Utah data center now. Cheap power is one of the reasons.

The infinite monkey theorem states that a monkey hitting keys at random on a typewriter keyboard for an infinite amount of time will almost surely type a word or a few words, does that make them genius's? Nope..just means that you pound out enough crap...something is bound to hit.

Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin
I have known about ECHELON for years.

I can actually remember years (and that's going back at least 10 or 12 years) ago in school doing a report on it for English

I have a cousin who worked on the SKYNET five program and held COSMIC security clearance for his job as he had to test out the secure radio frequencies. We went out for a drink once and got talking about Conspiracies and i asked him about ECHELON he told me that it wasn't actually called ECHELON but in short yes a system like that existed.

what is interesting is that ECHELON (or what ever it is really called probably now the PRISM program) has traditionally been a agreement with British, American, Australian/New Zealand and Canadian services who spy on each others citizens deliberately. So for example GCHQ would spy on Americans and the NSA keep a tab on brits and they would all shear the info.

There is a listening post in the UK, Menwith Hill that is part of ECHELON.

its a pretty big system but relies on the supercomputers at Fort Meade to assess them the human factor is a huge limitation.

i might actually try to see if i still have a copy of that old report......

Are you referring to the one Duncan Campbell wrote?

www.cyber-rights.org...

reply to post by whyamIhere


Think about it…

You have Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, Diane Feinstein, President Obama and a host of others all defending this program, which includes ALL (not just Verizon) telecommunications companies.

The only one I haven’t heard from is Biden. ( Stay away from the Press Room door Joe! )

Those folks alone should have the hairs on the back of your neck standing up.

"They are listening." This is the fundamental truth behind being a conspiracy theorist. In fact it was one of the things that originally led me to ATS years ago first as a lurker, then finally as a member, but I eventually became more involved fighting in the religion threads than keeping up with the traditional conspiracy threads. I think its great though, we all knew this, and someday were going to find truths uncovered that were once considered 'conspiracy'. I cant wait till they announce the ufo coverup and all of that, if ever.

reply to post by bg_socalif


No but in fact right now i am working on a thread about ECHEON that i have based on the stuff i already knew about the system but figured with the invfo on PRISM it might make for a interesting thread just now.

should have it done by tomorrow

but Duncan Campbell has came up quite a bit.

Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin
reply to post by bg_socalif

 

No but in fact right now i am working on a thread about ECHEON that i have based on the stuff i already knew about the system but figured with the invfo on PRISM it might make for a interesting thread just now.

should have it done by tomorrow

but Duncan Campbell has came up quite a bit.

edit on 8-6-2013 by OtherSideOfTheCoin because: (no reason given)

Looking forward to your thread.

Originally posted by whyamIhere
Why would they build this huge complex and not have the ability to listen.

When the full truth comes out...They will find out they just did not take the data.

Does anyone believe they are not listening?

Well, if you have a digital camera, I think metadata is pretty much the same thing as EXIF info in a digital image file (someone can correct me if I'm wrong here).

My Olympus is over 10 years old and has a surprising amount of info in every picture I took with it. Date, time, shutter speed, exposure and so on. These days, I think some cameras even store the location of where the photo was taken. I'm sure metadata will get much more sophisticated so even if they're only looking at metadata, the excuse that they're not actually listening to people's conversations is just stupid.

I mean, how is it that looking at metadata from millions of cell phones doesn't qualify as millions of tracking devices?

Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin
I have known about ECHELON for years.

what is interesting is that ECHELON (or what ever it is really called probably now the PRISM program) has traditionally been a agreement with British, American, Australian/New Zealand and Canadian services who spy on each others citizens deliberately. So for example GCHQ would spy on Americans and the NSA keep a tab on brits and they would all shear the info.

Absolutely correct. The NSA partners w/ foreign governments so that Allies are actually the ones spying on US citizens.. This loophole is how they circumvent the constitution..

As stated, this has been known since the 1990's.

Thanks for the great replies...

The funny thing is, when you tell people "See I tried to tell you this stuff years ago".

Their reply usually is "I knew it all the time".

Thanks to ATS....We are miles ahead of the Public and the Media.