A Star in a Jar - For those of you who have not seen!

As alot of you may be familiar, an interesting effect can be produced using sound, it can generate light.

The video does not come from you tube so I can't embed it sorry.

Awesome video: Star in a Jar

Links did not work for me.

I fixed them. Everything should be working now except the youtube embed. Those take time to sync up for some reason it seems.

Originally posted by vind21
As alot of you may be familiar, an interesting effect can be produced using sound, it can generate light.

Further recent research:

John Stuart Reid proposes that sound is not actually a wave, as has been thought for centuries, but a “bubble”

One does not lead to the other.
The idea that Reid puts forward is not "further research" of sonoluminesence.

Reid's idea is in fact the bog standard ordinary well assumed conventional standard idea of sound that any half decent Physicist worthy of the name would know. ** Yes, sound spreads out in all directions omnidirectionally from the source as a shockwave. Surprised you didnt know already.

I'd go so far as to say your statement is a lie that it was "thought for centuries" that sound is a wave. When drawn on paper as an introduction for children to learn the basic idea, yes. That why it is drawn as a 2D wave. So that people who dont know anything about the topic can start to learn the fundamentals.

Its like looking in a "Basic Physics for students" textbook, seeing that atoms are represented as dots with electrons whirling around the nucleus in perfect circles, and then jumping to the conclusion that physicists actually think electrons go around atomic nuclei in perfect circles.

They dont.

** except the bit about SPEEC, which you arent talking about.

Could this explain some of the shapes in the space and/or earth of geographical phenomenons/objects?

reply to post by alfa1


Hmmm....really?

As surprising as it may be, I don't post these things for my own benefit. Sonoluminesence is a pretty new phenomenon by most standards.

Not everyone may be as enlightened as you, there are MANY people on this forum that have limited experiences with it, also thanks for confirming the reason I posted the link to the second page.

Reid's idea is in fact the bog standard ordinary well assumed conventional standard idea of sound that any half decent Physicist worthy of the name would know.

This is indeed what I was going for, thanks for letting me know I hit my mark.

As many people are not physicists and are not post grad students, most people coming out of high school or who have never taken a physics classes (a large portion of this forums users) would tell you sound is a wave and draw a squiggly line if you asked them to draw sounds.

I do not mold my threads strictly for highbrow fellows such as yourself. There was a certain level of entertainment value here more than a scientific discussion. As you may have noted I didn't really pose a question....

I'd say you'd be hard pressed to justify your statements, The three topics I have presented some information on here are all related quite well. The "for centuries" come from the headline of the post, you can direct your complaints to them since we've had experiments in sound since the 1700s, they may be closer to the mark than you think, other than that; I'd say let the people enjoy some possibly new info and cool videos eh?

reply to post by hp1229


It certainly could!

The principles that form shapes in cymatics are the same shapes observed in space, on saturn, on venus, and in many other cases.

Originally posted by vind21
reply to post by alfa1

 

Hmmm....really?

As surprising as it may be, I don't post these things for my own benefit. Sonoluminesence is a pretty new phenomenon by most standards.

As it was first observed in 1934, it's been a fairly long while. 80 years, nearly.

Not everyone may be as enlightened as you, there are MANY people on this forum that have limited experiences with it, also thanks for confirming the reason I posted the link to the second page.

And since it's not really a sound phenomenon, the proper name for it is now SCBL, single cavitation bubble luminescence. If you google scholar for SCBL, you'll find that's the current term.

Anything that makes a bubble in a fluid with the right characteristics will do this. A laser can be used, for instance.

That was fascinating

Thanks for sharing S&F for something really worth a few minutes of my life

There you go



Cody

ETA embedded video

And since it's not really a sound phenomenon, the proper name for it is now SCBL, single cavitation bubble luminescence. If you google scholar for SCBL, you'll find that's the current term.

Cool, then post links to some decent break downs of the concepts for others if you would.



And you are welcome for sharing, I thought the little blurb and image of the the blue light alone was worth the post.

O.k. so this is really about a way to create fusion.

I cant believe this is really regular water in a tube.. this bubble giving off light they say is tens of thousands of degrees. Wouldn't this small amount of water simply evaporate at that temp?

reply to post by vind21


warning: pdfs

Link

how to...

Effects of solutes on...

Effects of noble gas solutes on...

Scientific American: pre-chewed but fairly ok (Putterman 95)

Scientific American: the light's not caused by heat...

Originally posted by vind21
As surprising as it may be, I don't post these things for my own benefit. Sonoluminesence is a pretty new phenomenon by most standards.

True, but
1. It still does not mean that Reids ideas are new research from sonoluminesence.
2. The "hundreds of years" reference had nothing whatsoever to do with sonoluminesence, but with the claim that people thought sound was a 2D wave.

Originally posted by vind21
The "for centuries" come from the headline of the post, you can direct your complaints to them

If you mean this link here, then the author was already corrected by people commenting on her post.

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
O.k. so this is really about a way to create fusion.

I cant believe this is really regular water in a tube.. this bubble giving off light they say is tens of thousands of degrees. Wouldn't this small amount of water simply evaporate at that temp?

The heat is small, the temperature is high (possibly).

And if you read that last link I just posted, it may be there is no high temperature either.

reply to post by alfa1


Yes that is where it was pulled from. You'll be glad to know I corrected the original post.

The primary reason I included that source was this:

In conclusion, SPEEC theory predicts that sound always has an electromagnetic (light) component. Accordingly, the frequencies of these components are either in the radio spectrum or in the infrared band, except where the sound pressure levels are extremely high. In such cases, sound would create visible light.

I may have been mislead into thinking that the theory was some how related to John Stuart Reid directly. A simple google search for SPEEC of SPEEC theory does not turn up much it is possibly defunct.

Originally posted by vind21
Reid proposes that sound is not actually a wave, as has been thought for centuries, but a “bubble”

WAVES.
44. The elastic forces of the medium, developed by the assumed arbitrary displacement of a molecule, will propagate the motion in all directions from the point of initial disturbance. As an ever enlarging volume becomes involved...

...If the velocity of wave propagation be constant in all directions, the form assumed by the bounding surface containing the disturbed molecules will be spherical...

...the form of the wave surface will be spherical...

Elements of wave motion relating to sound and light.
A text book prepared expressly for the use of the cadets of the United States Military Academy, West Point.
3d ed. rev.
By Peter S. Michie
Published 1904
link

reply to post by alfa1


I found this incredibly funny and face palm worthy all at the same time.


Again this post was in no way desgiend to promote that guy. It was simply the best laid out "prettiest" link I could find to related subjects that mentioned the inclusion of electromagnetic light as a component of sound.

Originally posted by vind21
I may have been mislead into thinking that the theory was some how related to John Stuart Reid directly. A simple google search for SPEEC of SPEEC theory does not turn up much it is possibly defunct

I dunno, I don't see any references to it other than Reid, so it sounds like one of those things he espoused but couldn't convince anyone of.

eta: At any rate, thinking about it, I think it's one of those things that are probably sort of correct on the surface but turns out to be a misconception on second glance. It's certainly the wrong terminology to say that EM is a component of sound, it would be more accurate to say that EM radiation variations are a side-effect. The EM you'd get wouldn't be associated with the sound wave, it is a side effect of the compression and rarefaction of the medium. In the compression phase, the medium is very VERY slightly warmer, in the rarefaction phase, very VERY slightly cooler. To the point I'm not sure you could measure it. As any material over absolute zero emits IR, and the wavelength is associated with the temperature of the material, the peaks and troughs (if you will) of the sound wave will cause a probably undetectably slight blurring of the IR spectrum being emitted by the medium.

By the same token, all the surfaces that the sound hits that aren't totally elastic will also heat undetectably. This would be the same, though, if I hit them with a rock. Were I to toss a rock at a brick wall, the air in front of the rock will compress and heat in the same manner, and to about the same degree. And like Reid's supposition states, yes, the undetectably slight warming of the air in front of the rock will alter the EM background thermal emissions of that air. Also undetectably. That doesn't mean that EM is a component of rock pitching.

Originally posted by vind21
John Stuart Reid proposes that sound is not actually a wave, but a “bubble” and that this is what creates the amazing patterns we see captured with cymatics.
In his article, The Physics of Sound, Reid says that sound has previously been thought to travel as a wave because [the lack of a real 8th grade science teacher] and the graphical, wave-based representation we have used to capture sound visibly in the past…

The star in a jar is cool.
You should have posted that and quit while you were ahead.

I don't know why you had to spoil it with John Stuart Reid, who apparently doesn't even know what a wave is. What he's describing is still a wave, so it sounds pretty ignorant of him to say it's not a wave.
I'm not sure why you mentioned "Divine Frequency" either, but I would like to thank you for not doing more than mentioning it.

I don't care what nobody says, awesome find. So they're creating light by popping a air-bubble underwater with sound???