Are Native Americans Considered Foreigners in America?

reply to post by Kashai


I used to have this really cool write up about "the Beeah Tribe" making fun of the BIA. Totally Indian humor. Wish I could find that thing again.

I always think of Alex White Plume of the Pine Ridge reservation. He knows all about the business model of FBI and Associates.
nativesunite.org...

reply to post by Quark


Because the debate, up til now, has been about English colonists and their relations with local tribes. You bet that members of rival tribes would side with the colonists at times in fights against other tribes. Such a practice continued all the way up into the wars of the mid to late 1800's and sometimes, there were internal divisions within tribes themselves on how to respond. In fact, internal division amongst tribal members was a pretty common issue for the entire period up to that mid 19th century point. What would happen even in these later times would be that the US government would make an agreement with someone they presumed to be the leader of the tribe only to fail to realize that that individual only had sway over his own particular group within that tribe and that that agreement did not hold for the rest of it. Caused a whole lot of problems, namely war. I can honestly say that the families that sided with the US government during the Navajo's time of war are still remembered as to who they were within the tribe and aren't held in the highest regard. Doing so internally had a whole lot of repercussions afterwards.

Originally posted by frazzle

They said it was to encourage NAs to "integrate" into "society", but what he really intended for it to do was to weaken all the tribes even more than they had already been. Worked like a hot knife through soft butter.

Tecumseh saw it coming from a long time before. Tragic that he couldn't stop it.

From my college text book “The Enduring Vision- A History of the American People 7th ed.”

Page 506
Army commanders also encourage the slaughter of buffalo, taking only the skin and leaving the carcasses to rot. By the 1880’s the once-thundering herds had been reduced to a few thousand animals, and the Native American way of life dependent on the buffalo had been ruined.

Here is a visual



How many buffalo you think are in that pile?

And I do agree with you because the actions spoke louder than the words.

reply to post by WhiteAlice


The Spanish applied the same perspective as what was existent in the Spanish Inquisition to Western Hemispheric Indigenous Society. Further all those US States that have Spanish names once had
Indigenous names.

Any thoughts?

reply to post by IntrinsicMotivation


In regard to the buffalo ~ you have to see this!
Its more about what we do now than what they did then.
(sorry, I'm no good at embedding)

www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by Quark
Where's the condemnation of the Indian tribes that warred on other tribes? They took slaves, good hunting grounds, raped and pillaged other tribes. Sounds pretty barbaric to me. Why is it the only white man who gets faulted for doing these things? Sounds racist to me to pick on just one race when others were doing the same things. Lets hear how the natives exterminated other tribes. Lets be PC now and treat all like the equals we are.

Whites slaughtered around the globe and I had to learn about that in the white set up education system. Do you hear me calling white people barbaric?

Have you read anything I have said in here or just jumping on the “must be racist” bandwagon?

Why do we have to observe all these holidays yet not one is in remembrance of Native Americans?

Why do we observe a bank holiday?

Stay on the topic please. Do you qualify in the 42% mentioned in the op?

reply to post by IntrinsicMotivation


I know of an account related to Um Kax and he who hybridized corn, One day he realized that he had to make his ancestors aware of what he had done. He made the decision to travel north where he killed a Buffalo.

This was for his meat and warmth in relation to his journey.

As a man he would kill a male and with all due respect he would not cut the horns or the tail.

So a red man wearing the coat made of a male buffalo that included horns and tail.

They ended up teaching the Europeans in Mayan times, how to make Corn they could eat.

Describe the appearance of a particular European Harvest God...

Any thoughts?

Originally posted by frazzle
reply to post by IntrinsicMotivation

 

In regard to the buffalo ~ you have to see this!
Its more about what we do now than what they did then.
(sorry, I'm no good at embedding)

www.youtube.com...

Here you go.

reply to post by IntrinsicMotivation

What you are about to read is something that has bothered me for a long time. This is a very deep subject to which many people seem to be blind to (due to member reactions of me calling for remembrance of Native Americans).

I am only relaying my personal experiences and research as well as my encounters from West Coast to East Coast. I cannot begin to tell you how frustrating it is to be in a college level American History course and see that Natives are just passed over and upon trying to bring it up have some White person tell me to shut up because they lost a war. It is that very attitude that makes my blood boil. How did things get this way?

Why would anyone have a negative reaction towards the remembrance of the Native Americans? They had a rich culture, one which was pushed near extinction by the European settlers. Yes, they got the RAW deal in their dealings with the Europeans. I guess this statement will really make your blood boil - "So what?" Take a look throughout human history, what happens when a more technological society meets another?

So what will make you satisfied? You want a day of remembrance? Want more Native American education in the school system? You can not change the past, it happened. Best bet if Native Americans release that and take advantage of social programs like free university education (at least here in Canada) and the zero tax in order to better themselves, and their community.

reply to post by Kashai


Off the top of my head I recall Demeter, but that is a goddess of harvest.

Do you care to share more?

reply to post by MidnightTide


If the indigenous of the Western Hemisphere were actually defeated they would not have their own lands.

Originally posted by MidnightTide

Why would anyone have a negative reaction towards the remembrance of the Native Americans?

That is what I am addressing in the op. Why is statistics showing that out of everyone who has taken the IAT 42% had a moderate to strong association with whites as American and Natives as foriegners?

Originally posted by MidnightTide
They had a rich culture, one which was pushed near extinction by the European settlers. Yes, they got the RAW deal in their dealings with the Europeans. I guess this statement will really make your blood boil - "So what?" Take a look throughout human history, what happens when a more technological society meets another?

Thanks for the kind words. Your attitude shows me you have not learned from the past. What was done will happen again by force or legislation. Public education in America does not focus on this subject, hmmm I wonder why? If you do not remember then history will repeat itself.

Originally posted by MidnightTide
So what will make you satisfied?

For you to step your game up!

Here is a book that I read, you might enjoy it

"Guns, Germs, and Steel" by Jared Diamond.

reply to post by IntrinsicMotivation


Done with your righteousness?

I don't need to step up my game, I realize that to the winners go the spoils. It is you that needs to take a look at history. Essentially people look to Natives as foreigners because their culture lost out. They were displaced and the Europeans moved in.

Originally posted by IntrinsicMotivation
reply to post by Kashai

 

Off the top of my head I recall Demeter, but that is a goddess of harvest.

Do you care to share more?

Kashai was a Warrior first and then a Nagual.

Also Cortez was not by himself and neither were those 300.

What was before then known as a Ring of Fire was extinguished.

Originally posted by MidnightTide
reply to post by IntrinsicMotivation

 

Done with your righteousness?

I don't need to step up my game, I realize that to the winners go the spoils. It is you that needs to take a look at history. Essentially people look to Natives as foreigners because their culture lost out. They were displaced and the Europeans moved in.

You have provided another example of the problem I pointed out in my op

So we lost a war and should just go ahead and accept European ways and shut are mouths and be good servants to the European ways.

I am so sorry, but I never got that memo….

No. just the people that were here before us.

reply to post by IntrinsicMotivation


great post!! and s & f. I personally have never referred anybody as that.. even if they actually were. a lot of this I did not know, and thank you for bringing it to my attention! you have definitely put a lot of hard work into bringing this information to the forefront!! thank you!

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


As I said as well there is plenty of evidance to support this and further back...

The Clovis culture appears around 11,500 RCYBP

Known as "Clovis First," the predominant hypothesis among archaeologists in the latter half of the 20th century had been that the people associated with the Clovis culture were the first inhabitants of the Americas. The primary support for this was that no solid evidence of pre-Clovis human inhabitation had been found. According to the standard accepted theory, the Clovis people crossed the Beringia land bridge over the Bering Strait from Siberia to Alaska during the period of lowered sea levels during the ice age, then made their way southward through an ice-free corridor east of the Rocky Mountains in present-day western Canada as the glaciers retreated. This hypothesis came to be challenged by studies suggesting a Pre-Clovis Human occupation of the Americas[21] until in 2011, following the excavation of an occupation site at Buttermilk Creek, Texas, a prominent group of scientists claimed to have definitely established the existence "of an occupation older than Clovis."[22][23

Pre-Clovis find in Texas

Pre-Clovis (20 cm) (14,350-16,170 BP) Sterile layer (20,330-24,420 BP) Limestone Bedrock Pre-Clovis Artifacts at Friedkin More than 15,000 lithic artifacts were recovered from the Pre-Clovis occupations at Friedkin, including 56 stone tools; the remainder of the artifacts are debitage, stone flakes left over from stone tool construction. All of the chert artifacts are from locally-available Edwards chert. The tools include 12 bifaces, 1 core, 23 flake tools, 5 blade fragments, 14 bladelets and a piece of polished hematite.

Lithic!
Thats right people here 14,000 years ago...cavemen you know?

Native American studies in at least K-12 schools here is pathetic. While learning the geological history of my state in middle school, it branched (for 20 minutes, on ONE day) in to a mediocre brief discussion on the Native tribes of FL, and how some geological sites held importance to them. It was absolutely underwhelming at the time, and sad as hell in hindsight. I've learned far more from simply traveling around my area and visiting the parks with historical info than I ever did in school.

And frankly, I think if we're going to have Black History month, there needs to be a race/culture month for every month of the school year. Dedicating just one month to a minority, and the rest of the year's curriculum to my whiter-than-sour-cream European ancestors, and maybe Ancient Egypt or a Chinese dynasty (grade level depending) is not learning world history. That's shoving a cherry-picked prodigal up on a pedestal, giving lip service to a few, and erasing everyone else who made the world what it is.

reply to post by WhiteAlice


Read my posts alice I did mention Roanoke [ more then once] - why bother conversing with me, if there you do not read what I have written
In Virginia - lost colonists - sir walter raleigh - 1500 late blah blah.
I cease my convo now.
You carry on ..

Anyway In conclusion .. To address intrinsic Motion's OP.

I think Native American's are pushed out and sidelined in their own lands.
BUT I do not think it will always be like this.