Side Sunni or Shia? Side always only Mankind Community.

Sooner or later, eventually we mankind will be faced with such a question one day, as the 1200+ years of sectarian strife comes to horrifying climax being played out now in Syria. This post is to prepare readers in advance, so that more be informed to make right choices on their free will as they will have to in the end.

For 1200+ years, most of mankind except muslims, and then not many of them as they were either illiterate or fooled, knew nothing much of this strife within Islam.

I will not dwell upon who is right or who is wrong, for misinterpretations abound back in the 7th century as majority of the arabs were illiterate and barbarians just turned civilised converted by the teachings of the divine prophet Muhammad, sent by our common Creator who loved us all, to help progress the arab people.

I doubt if both sects will change as far too much blood and sacrifices had been made by both sides for thousand plus years. It is deeply ingrained in each's psyche.

The followers of Ali - Shias - believed that Ali, who was a good man, lauded by the prophet himself, presumed Ali to be the Caliph. However, the prophet did not have that authority to designate successors. In his last few sermons, he left it to the Will of Allah to help the community to find one, and not one individual or few men to decide.

Majority of Sunnis followed what the prophet had decided, but the Shias were insistent on their own choice, and over the years included mysticism into their beliefs, such as the divine infallability and perfection of a Shia leader, something which even prophet Muhammad did not use it on himself, as he at all times claimed he was of flesh and blood, only a mortal and not a divine being, and thus the schism grew between both sects.

We can no longer change the past, but we can still change the future.

The apostate infidel leader in Persia, who claimed divine status as the SUPREME spiritual leader of muslims - Khamenei, is a cunning man. He needed guile in order to survive, as his innocent misled followers who claimed to being muslims are only of 20-30% compared to sunnis whom makes up 70% of the islamic world.

Shia leaders had always resorted to guile for 1200+years in order to survive. Today is no different.

Lebanon, Syria and Iraq are to be the strongholds for the infidel Khamenei, won by his guile, while he fooled and used atrociously the palestinians to foolishly sacrificed themselves, not for palestine, but for Khamenei, so that while the rest of sunnis are distracted to hate and hurt Israel, he got about grabbing and creating strongholds nearby as well as quietly developing nukes, as nukes are the ultimate weapon that will get sunnis to bow to him the way North Korea made the world dance to their tunes. But such power corrupts one eventually, only to make more mistakes.

He is not below stooping to destablise other nations, to keep them busy while he goes about acheiving his aims. His agents are discovered and uncovered with bombs not only in the middle east, but also around the world - Europe, Thailand, Kenya, Somalia,etc.

Even he had links with the supposed sunni Talebans - supplying them with bombs, which is not a problem as his aims had always been that the sunnis are to be distracted at all times, so that they will not target shias. If sunnis kill sunnis, he would be more than happy, as it would only mean lesser of them to deal with later.

All that unravelled and was revealed when his pet HumanSlayer Assad stupidly slaughtered innocent unarmed sunni men, women and children, even within the provinces.

Many finally woke up and realized the duplicity of apostate Khamenei, even the palestinians themselves. Khamenei had long preached about muslim unity, and had supported and even called for the demise of the jews for decades on the claims that the jews were murdering sunni muslim palestinians.

And yet.....when the beast syrian regime were SLAUGHTERING sunnis by the tens of thousands, where was Khamenei? ...He was only ACTIVELY supporting his pet by sending in his army to continue the butcheries upon sunni men, women and babies in Syria. So much of his ' support of muslim unity' where and when it matters most.

And thus, the fight in Syria now between both sects, set for a climatic finale....


Many of us would rightly stay clear of such conflicts, for fear of being dragged into it and villified later by others. Unfortunately, if we don't step in to stop the 2, the fight will continue on EVEN if Syria is won, iraq and lebanon resolved, as the remnants will continue to use even far worse brutal tactics not only upon each other, but to innocent mankind around the world deemed as 'collateral damage'.

Sunnis are a majority in the Islamic world, and is a no brainer on who will eventually win. But that does not mean the majority has the right to vanquish and extinct the minority, NOR WILL our civilised world allows it today.

We had always helped all, regardless if majority or minority, such as in Bosnia, to help end their conflicts and let them sort it among themselves for self determination based upon democratic principles of moral and ethical guidelines that leaves none behind.

Shia leaders, in their tribal arrogance and ignorances, decided long ago that they are far too superior to others, and determined that their own cunning way will ensure their own survival, at the expense of mankind, world peace and stability, instead of seeking for help from UN.

Mankind had evolved, more so the western world,slavic nations and asia, for they went through centuries of pain and suffering, and finally evolved or evolving democratic institutions as the current best means to economically progress under the rule of law, where all are equal and none above the law, held accountable for their own actions, sharing only common values such as peace, justice, equality,shared properity, responsible freedom and progress to evolve.

We had for decades after the horrifying WW2, ABLE to live peacefully with all kinds of differences of people - catholics, protestants, buddhists, hindus, judaism, islam, their various sects, even atheist, white, black,etc under the rule of common law with freedom of worship for all, in their private space and not to intrude upon common shared space.

We mankind can live with shia and sunnis, for regardless of our differences, we have only common values sharing our world to progress and evolve. None is perfect and mistakes will be made, and democracy allows that for leaders to be changed.

We will not take sides, but we will help to stop the 2 from continuing this fight for needless supremacy where only innocents die. May Khamenei wakes up and grow some conscience. We can talk and find arrangements to live in peace sharing our world. True Sunnis had all along been ready to talk. Extremists idealogy can be turned by truths.

But if he refuses or make talking impossible, it only leaves violence inevitable,to bring a quick end to the struggle. Many, espacially the innocent shias only want to live in peace to acheive common values for themselves and their families. No human wants war or be canon fodder for another's ambitions.

The end is not neigh, as he had apostatically preached often for years. No human knows the date, except Allah. We must not create that end day ourselves, as we were created to progress and evolve, not destroy ourselves. .......

Not biting i am tired of these threads, to each his own, whatever happens, happens. They always spark controversy.

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101


The war in the ME is by no means a war between Sunni and Shia....It is simply a war between Western and Eastern Ideologies.I am afraid you are underestimating the matter a bit my friend.....A lot of people are trying to use the old Divide and Conquer trick in the region in hopes of getting Saudis or Turks to attack Iran,but I am sure they know better than that.....You would have made an interesting OP if you weren't so biased.

Have you had your eyes closed to just how the situation in Syria came about? It came about because foreign governments that want Syria's leader out. This is nothing more than the same thing that happened in Iran back when America organized the government to be overthrown. The only reason we are doing this is to protect a racist nation of terrorist. And you talking about the Ayatollah growing a conscience is a laugh. Is his nation wiping another nation off the map? Is his nation running a concentration camp that even the Nazis would have been ashamed of? Your post is basically nothing more than a semi racist whinefest.

Hopefully one day you will be able to shed the programming you have been subjected to and be able to see what is really happening.

Your post is basically nothing more than a semi racist whinefest.

I found your views interesting.
By your use of englsh i suspect you may have more than passing aquaintance with the confrontation.
I believe that Shia Vs Sunni is a ploy that was worked out with HW bush.
This stuff goes back to before the bay of Pigs and beyond.
The religious affiliations,and political aspirations of the little people are subverted to serving the agenda of evil
and psychotic persons interested in only perpetuating their own hedgemony.

I only slightly care enough to say that I don't care, but I really couldn't care less.

Buster>Thread.

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101
end that propaganda. people on ATS will not buy such Divide and Conquer propaganda.
people will not fall in such colonial games.
I will never respond to your biased statements. I will never act in favor of colonialists.
tell the corrupted elites that they are losers in brainwashing people even here on ATS.

sincerely, from Iran !

reply to post by buster2010


Thanks all for the replies. It is good to know the state of your minds.

To Buster.

Stick to truth and realities on the ground, less your usual ignorant apostate Khamenei support BS, and you will have no other choice but to abandon your continued delusions and attempts to fool others on ATS.

This I simply ask of you.



Who the heck are the hizbollahs? Nothing more than trained, organized and militarily supplied troops rotated in Iran occupied Lebanon, Iraq and now Syria, SLAUGHTERING innocent sunni men, women and babies for the past 2 years +. How long do you intend to fool others that your apostate Khamenei is all sugar and nice, invades no country but smells the roses all day?

Originally posted by buster2010

Have you had your eyes closed to just how the situation in Syria came about? It came about because foreign governments that want Syria's leader out.

Do you have any details or proof of that? I could easily say that is was a domino in the string of Arab Spring revolutions.

This is nothing more than the same thing that happened in Iran back when America organized the government to be overthrown.

You act like Syria is the only country in the Middle East that's had this problem in the last two years.

The only reason we are doing this is to protect a racist nation of terrorist.

Who are you talking about and how do you figure?

And you talking about the Ayatollah growing a conscience is a laugh. Is his nation wiping another nation off the map?

You're making me laugh. Iran is the leader of "Death to America" and "Death to Israel". You're obviously not familiar with their antics in Iraq, Syria or Lebanon and their terrorist proxies right now. You think they only talk and don't participate? That's foolish thinking.

Your post is basically nothing more than a semi racist whinefest.

How are you any different? I think we can all suspect who you think is ultimately behind this?

Hopefully one day you will be able to shed the programming you have been subjected to and be able to see what is really happening.

Likewise.

Unfortunately, most people like you can only focus on one aspect of any situation as opposed to multiple factors that have contributed to the situation throughout the entire Middle East and not just Syria. You might start by doing some research on the Islamic infighting taking place in Iraq since the U.S. pulled it's troops. You think the U.S. was anxious to start that over again throughout the entire Middle East at one time? Give me a break!

I'd support the Shi'ite Moslems any day against the barbaric Sunnite Islamists

- The Caliphates, those of which the Sunnites adore and love spread Islam in such little time, earning the name 'spread by the sword'. The Shi'ites stronlgy oppose the actions of those men.
- The Ummayed were Sunnites, they killed, expanded, and ruled with an iron fist.
- The Abbasids were Sunnites, they too killed, oppressed, and ruled with an iron fist.
- The Ottomans were Sunnites, they were brutal, they massacred and razed what stood in their way.

Every major massacre in Islamic history can be attributed to the Sunnites, sadly the Suffites and Shi'ites also take the blame as they stand under that banner of ISLAMIC brotherhood. But for those of us that learn history, we learn that not all muslims believe in the same hateful ideology, we learn that perhaps the Prophet of Islam was a truly loving man!

Today, the Sunnite governments have back stabbed the people, and the people too have back stabbed their children.

Saudi Arabia a Sunnite country has special friendship with USA, It allows military access, bases, it supplies them with oil and wealth.

Jordan a Sunnite country, recognizes Israel as a state, and they have massive trade agreements

Egypt a Sunnite country, has a historical peace agreement with Israel and gas trade, as well as other secret deals mainly intelligence related

Turkey a Sunnite country, is a part of NATO, with deep joint military projects with Europe and Israel (drone program)

And now you want to blame the Shi'ites for your problems?

Seriously OP, grow a sack and admit to your fault, Iran is the only hope for Moslems. Not corrupt pakistan, not gullible egypt, not the traitorous saudis, not the wine guzzling turks.

I pray that Syria will defeat the western backed coup, and rises stronger than before. That will be a thorn in the face of the NATO/ZIONIST/ARAB alliance!

reply to post by Jumadax


Yet, which country was the first and the loudest when screaming about spreading "Political Islam" and creating an "Islamic State" throughout the Middle East? That would be Iran.

From December 2011....

When the Arab Rising began in December 2010, leaders of the Islamic Republic of Iran were quick to claim credit, declaring their 1979 revolution as its "religious and ideological progenitor."

Iran's ayatollahs proposed that fundamentalist Islamic theology should direct change from Morocco to Yemen. Iranian Shiite ayatollahs hoped Sunni Muslims across the Middle East would install governments similar to their own system of velayat-e faqih, or governance by a supreme religious jurist.

www.realclearworld.com...

Syria is a product of major world powers in bed with certain gulf states to destabilise nations......
The ..... FSA seems to exist without popular support in Syria, therefore it think its roots are in outside sources.
The destabilisation of Syria will break the hold of Hezbollah and the Shiite militias eventually....

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by Jumadax

 

Yet, which country was the first and the loudest when screaming about spreading "Political Islam" and creating an "Islamic State" throughout the Middle East? That would be Iran.

From December 2011....

When the Arab Rising began in December 2010, leaders of the Islamic Republic of Iran were quick to claim credit, declaring their 1979 revolution as its "religious and ideological progenitor."

Iran's ayatollahs proposed that fundamentalist Islamic theology should direct change from Morocco to Yemen. Iranian Shiite ayatollahs hoped Sunni Muslims across the Middle East would install governments similar to their own system of velayat-e faqih, or governance by a supreme religious jurist.

www.realclearworld.com...

Iran style political islam is better than Saudi or somali style

Shi'ites didnt blow up schools, hospitals or supermarkets in the name of Allah
Shi'ites tend to co exist with other minorities,
shi'ites tend to be more productive socially and scientifically

you can compare Iran with Saudi Arabia,
Hezhollah with Al qaeda
Houthis with boko haram

if you dont see a difference you shoudl research the topic

reply to post by Jumadax


Correct me if I am wrong here but isn't Iran the most largest backer of would wide terrorist efforts,outside of the middle east? Aren't the leadership of Iran referring to me as a member of a satanic people? So far IRAN seems like the most destabilizing factor in the middle east and that is why the last 3 administrations want to pull an Iraq style set up on them.Fortunately our JCS has deflected such efforts.I would hope out of wisdom but my guess is money.

Originally posted by stirling

Syria is a product of major world powers in bed with certain gulf states to destabilise nations......
The ..... FSA seems to exist without popular support in Syria, therefore it think its roots are in outside sources.
The destabilisation of Syria will break the hold of Hezbollah and the Shiite militias eventually....

So far, all we know for sure is that a lot of FSA groups have merged with Al Qaeda to accomplish their goal of overthrowing Assad. They claim that Al Qaeda was the only one willing to step in and help them when they needed it most because they were desperate.

Personally, I believe the FSA started with good intentions, sold their souls to the devil (Al Qaeda) in the process, and are going to regret it. They'll end up with someone like the Muslim Brotherhood in control and it will turn into another situation like Egypt. It won't end up the way they wanted it and turmoil will continue.

Originally posted by Jumadax

Iran style political islam is better than Saudi or somali style

Shi'ites didnt blow up schools, hospitals or supermarkets in the name of Allah
Shi'ites tend to co exist with other minorities,
shi'ites tend to be more productive socially and scientifically

you can compare Iran with Saudi Arabia,
Hezhollah with Al qaeda
Houthis with boko haram

if you dont see a difference you shoudl research the topic

What are you saying? That Iran's Hamas and Hezbollah are less dangerous than Saudi Arabia's terrorist organizations? If it appears that way, it's only because of sheer numbers. A terrorist organization is a terrorist organization and they all kill each other and others in the process.

By the way, just like SeekerofTruth mentioned in his original post, it's the current administration in Iran (namely Khamenei) who's responsible for promoting Iran's terrorist organizations by funding and arming them. The Shi'ites as a people may be pretty benign, but Khamenei isn't. Precisely the OP's point.

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101


You are saying exactly what "they", want you to say and think. The manipulators have done a great job. Thank you CIA.

Originally posted by Tianmat
reply to post by SeekerofTruth101

 

You are saying exactly what "they", want you to say and think. The manipulators have done a great job. Thank you CIA.

That's a two way street, isn't it? You are saying exactly what Iran and Muslim extremists want you to say.

It's a complex and elaborate manipulation by all, isn't it?

As far as you know, Muslim extremists planned this all along while duping the U.S. and the West into helping them along the way. The Muslims spreading political Islam while the U.S. is thinking they're helping them to spread and create a peaceful democracy.

The Muslim extremists would love nothing more than to take over all of the governments in the Middle East in order to build up their own army together to push Israel and the U.S. out of the Middle East. They don't care if Israel or the U.S. have nuke power. They are a bunch of jihadists after all. They believe it's their duty to take back all of the lands conquered by Islam from the beginning, even if it means dying while doing it.

reply to post by Jumadax


I have already stated clearly in my opening post that I will not judge which sect is right or wrong. I only showed how the schism had occured 1200+ years ago. And I had stated too that Ali was a good man, and lauded by the prophet himself.

However, the succession lays within the Will of Allah, whom guides the muslim community to make a choice.

Remember too that majority of them were only barbarian recently turned Islam converts to civilisation that the prophet had attempted to teach. It will take time to comprehend, and cannot be done overnight, for the arabs were not meant to be robots but given free will to decide and grow and evolve from their hearts and minds.

It was the same free will that prophet Muhammad taught when he left Mecca after he was threatened, and invited his own tribesfolks to form a new tribe, something that no tribal arab would take lightly after centuries of tribal kinship and protection - to become muslims under Islam. He forced no one and made clear to all to seek within their own hearts to make that choice towards civilisation and end the old barbaric ways and finally with them, won Mecca and arabs hearts and minds.

New Caliphs and successive ones were far more impetous and warlike, which was only natural as traditions die hard, and furthermore, the lands and tribes they were attempting to convert and tame understood only one thing - violence and not words.

It was not what the prophet had intended, as during his lifetime, he sought to woo by hearts and minds to Persia, even though Persian leaders had slaughtered muslims at the borders. Unfortunately, Bakr and Uma were not that patient, and wars were waged instead.

To keep the conquest intact for both religion and political control, iron fist was necessary then and so too was muslim unity. Unfortunately, the shia uta Ali were a constant thorn, and even when Ali became the 4th Caliph, full blown disunity only resulted, with different muslim kingdoms under different sects and worse, a gradual mis-interpretations of the Koran and Hadiths either by ignorance or twisted for political power.

Full blown war came when tolerance ended between the Shias and Sunnis after both being ruled by the mongols.The shia Safavids of Persia seized power during the 15th century and had never ceased to be a thorn to the neighbours - the sunni Ottomans, and general persecutions between the 2 sects continued on till today.

As mentioned, the insignificant nobody me is not interested on who has the right religion, nor are most. Religion had long been misused for power and control of the masses by the greedy, and had gotten it twisted beyond recognition, both in east and west civilisations.

All we mankind can ever hope for is to rely on the very SOURCE of the prophets teachings, their livetimes and direct qoutes - principles and not contextually, to be the basis as moral and ethical guidelines for our progress and evolution, and much of those sources central tenets are the same, east or west, as it all came from the SAME source - our common Creator.

My post's intention is only to dwell on the PRESENT, for all readers to consider and share, to make informed decisions when the title thread issues comes before us.

This religious persecutions MUST end, as too much innocent blood from all sides, including from the rest of mankind, caught up in this senseless 1200+years fight for religious supremacy which is not for Allah's glory, but only for personal deluded ambitions and power, at the expense of innocent mankind used as canon fodder.