Teenager Grant Acord Arrested for 'Columbine-Style' School Bomb Plot in Oregon

reply to post by THE666OCCULT


odd you bring that up as some of the first school shootings not perpetrated by native americans in this country were caused by kids getting paddled in school (or their siblings) and so after a good paddling they grabbed a gun and showed up and shot the teacher who paddled them in the face....funny how when you use violence to try to indoctrinate people in to doing what we want them to do eventualy some one realizes hrrm i dont wanna be hit any more how can i stop that oh yeah violence....
en.wikipedia.org...

1850s (U.S. Population: 23M-31M) November 2, 1853: Louisville, Kentucky, The student Matthew Ward bought a pistol in the morning, went to school and killed the schoolmaster Mr. Butler, as revenge for what Ward thought was excessive punishment of his brother the day before. Ward was acquitted.[2]

December 22, 1868: Chattanooga, Tennessee, A boy who refused to be whipped by his teacher, left the school. The next day he returned with his brother and a friend for revenge. Not finding the teacher at the school, they continued to his house, where a gun battle took place and three died. Only the brother survived.[6]

here is one where the teacher shot the student because he resisted punishment

February 24, 1903: Inman, South Carolina, Edward Foster, a 17-year-old student at Inman High school, was shot and fatally wounded by his teacher Reuben Pitts after he had jerked a rod from Pitts' hands to resist punishment. According to the teacher, Foster struck the pistol Pitts had drawn to defend himself, thus causing its discharge. Pitts was later acquitted of murder

articles.latimes.com...



more on topic glad no one got hurt and they stopped what ever this guy was up to and glad to see him be tried as an adult because all to often they use kiddie gloves on some who really should be tried as adults .i would not ecuse it either by blaming it on bullying as i (and others i know) were bullied we never ended up shooting any one,we either fought the bully or in my case learned how to use psychology to screw with their heads and broke them mentally

www.youtube.com...


www.dailymail.co.uk... hooting.html
www.oregonlive.com...

The attempted aggravated murder charges stem from the evidence they gathered, Haroldson said, which help show “intent and plans to carry out a deadly assault on a target-rich environment.” He did not suspect Acord had a clear-cut motive, such as targeting a specific person for revenge.

so seems he didnt even have "bullies" as a specific target just seemed to want to cause general chaos

www.globalpost.com... seems they found no explosives at the school so thats good

reply to post by slugger9787



You seem to assume that I relieve the perpetrators of

THEIR VERY REAL PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY

regardless of their genetics, their rearing, their conditioning, their hormones or whatever.

I don't absolve them of their very real personal responsibility FOR THEIR ACTIONS.

NEITHER do I absolve their parents responsibility for THEIR actions or lack of same.

There's more than sufficient personal responsibility to go around.

The fact remains, youths WITHOUT ATTACHMENT DISORDER

do NOT do gross, violent criminal deeds.

Actually, I've met very few teens who had negligible to no ATTACHMENT DISORDER at all.

And NONE of them were the least bit of a behavioral or relationship problem at all--ever. Their parents sometimes began to wonder if they were ever going to INDIVIDUATE. There was no teen rebellion, per se. INDIVIDUATION, yes. Rebellion, no.

Again . . . THERE IS NO HUMAN BEHAVIOR WITHOUT A REASON.


And there's plenty of responsibility to go around.
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reply to post by slugger9787


Actually, both my counseling clients and my students would vigorously assert that I tend to be tough on them in terms of their taking responsibility for their actions and being the more or less best that they can be. I typically play very much for keeps and expect demonstrable progress--which I warned them was my stance, the first hour.

Here we have a 17 year old with cold methodical meticulousness learned the how's and acquired the materials to dish out mass death and mayhem.

Do you really believe--personally--that he woke up on a Monday morning a few weeks or months ago and out of idleness and/or boredom decided to kill as many school mates as he could manage?

Do you really believe that the quality or lack of quality parenting had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with his actions with the bombs?

IF you believe that, where do you think such intense feelings, motivations came from? Watching the Simpsons? Playing video games? Seeing too many horror movies? Memorizing too many violent rock music songs or rap rants? While some of those may have added a slight tweak here or there to his inner seethings . . . none of them individually nor collectively together, imho, would have been SUFFICIENT to motivate what we are told he did and planned to do.

This was NOT a kind of idle hobby or some afternoon's lark of a project out of the blue.

That's just not logical.

Originally posted by THE666OCCULT

I don't really agree that it is an acceptable excuse to build bombs because you are "bullied" or "hurt". There is no logical connection between being made fun of and mass murder.

50 years ago, schoolyard bullies were stood up to and fights happened, which is a reasonable order of events and all parties involved learned a lesson and grew from it. Now, we baby and make excuses for pantywaist kids who decide the best course of action is to kill everyone at their school.

Disgusting.

edit on 26-5-2013 by THE666OCCULT because: (no reason given)

resentment and fear are strong emotions and easily triggers survival instincts, really the bullied either runs or fights, whats so different between using fists, guns or bombs besides the method to inflict harm and how easily harm is inflicted? a violent reaction is a violent reaction in the end.

and this whole "years ago" nonsense, your assertion that bullying is a new thing is absurd and denies human nature, when in groups humans always target outsiders, individuals who act different than "everyone else" and minority groups, by their very nature humans discriminate and attack things that are different than themselves.

regarding "fighting back", the thing is, kids these days can have their lives ruined by a single fight, it no longer is passed off as a learning experience so many bullied kids feel cornered and react more irrationally, what do you expect to happen when nobody notices their treatment, others play it off like its no big deal or as exaggeration, when they cant fight back and when fighting back only makes things worse anyways?
you obviously have never felt true uncontrollable hatred, resentment, fear and anger if you think things are so easily solved, but i can tell you that such emotions scare you and make you sad enough to cry, feeling it enough times will eventually make you not care anymore and say f you to everyone, never underestimate strong emotions in such situations.

i'm just glad i was never bullied back when i was a kid because i fear what i would've done when put in a corner like such kids, i was quite an angry depressed kid as it was and i still think its good that i've always been disabled otherwise i would've become a violent person with little reason. my natural limits(my physical disability) are the only thing that taught me control over my emotions and most kids have no such limit to stop them from acting on extreme emotions.

the problem starts with parents who are too nice and too much external authority stepping into things between kids, i, like many other "weak" kids needed a good smack or two and never got one, and getting arrested for every little thing stops many normal reactions between kids and between parent and child. society is being broken by such a simple thing and such things as this bomb plot are a result, in the end too much, too harsh and too reactive law enforcement is the main problem in this country, destroying normal interactions between people and causing extreme reactions without solutions.

Originally posted by namehere

I don't really agree that it is an acceptable excuse to build bombs because you are "bullied" or "hurt". There is no logical connection between being made fun of and mass murder.

. . .

the problem starts with parents who are too nice and too much external authority stepping into things between kids, i, like many other "weak" kids needed a good smack or two and never got one, and getting arrested for every little thing stops many normal reactions between kids and between parent and child. society is being broken by such a simple thing and such things as this bomb plot are a result, in the end too much, too harsh and too reactive law enforcement is the main problem in this country, destroying normal interactions between people and causing extreme reactions without solutions.

You may be mushing too many ideas together in that paragraph for me to understand your meaning precisely.

However, I have a bit of a quibble with

"the problem starts with parents who are too nice . . . "

I think it depends on what you mean by "too nice."

Surface, people pleasing, 'buying affections' shallow "nice" can be deadly and communicate that the child is not really important to the parent.

Or, that the parent is too interested in OTHER PRIORITIES to BE REAL with the child and to treat the child with the respect that BEING REAL requires.

That kind of "nice" can be nauseating to infuriating to many sensitive children.

If you are saying that the parents did not sternly discipline the child sufficiently for healthy maturing, I could agree depending.

imho, REBELLION and DEFIANCE need very immediate and harsh responses from parents. Afterward, the parent still needs to make clear that the punishment was for the behavior while the parent still treasures the child as a person and as their son/daughter.

When rebellion and defiance are NOT disciplined sternly, the child can readily get the idea that NOTHING MAKES ANY DIFFERENCE to the parent. And THAT EQUALS--"I, [the child] do not matter a gnat's fart's worth to the parent."

That's infuriating, depressing, and can result in a lot of abiding anger to rage.

When I look at the pics of the 17 year old the OP is about--[color=6699FF]that's the sort of thing I see in his eyes.
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reply to post by THE666OCCULT


Unless you've been bullied you can't say anything! It hurts like hell and you have soo much hatred for them that you just wanna kill them all.

Originally posted by Casualboy100
reply to post by THE666OCCULT

 

Unless you've been bullied you can't say anything! It hurts like hell and you have soo much hatred for them that you just wanna kill them all.

I have to disagree, I was bullied from grade school all the way to high school, never once did I think of killing anyone in revenge. I just ignored the things done to me and went about my life. I didnt like it, being punched in the hallway, spit on, jumped after school, but never once did i think of killing anyone, it never crossed my mind.

[Sorry, computer network glitch--net was evidently down resulting in a double post--self deleted on edit]

Originally posted by HomerinNC

I have to disagree, I was bullied from grade school all the way to high school, never once did I think of killing anyone in revenge. I just ignored the things done to me and went about my life. I didnt like it, being punched in the hallway, spit on, jumped after school, but never once did i think of killing anyone, it never crossed my mind.

Agreed. My responses were similar to yours though I tended to turn in on myself and blame myself.

Most bullies tend to pick on blokes they sense are insecure, wimpy, cowardly etc. because the bully's own insecurities and sense of worthlessness NEEDS such a victim to make themselves feel more worth something.

It is conceivable that this 17 year old is carrying a grudge from years of bullying. Certainly there's a ton of resentment, anger, vengeance in his eyes in the photo I looked at.

And, he doesn't strike me as the football or cowboy type macho man to meet harassers head-on. He looks much more the type to cook up a complex scheme to 'get even.'

reply to post by Casualboy100


I've been there.

Yes, you are angry, you want to strike back... But wanting to, and actually planning to do so in this fashion? No. There is no excuse for this. None.

How many of the bullies would have been "punished"? ...and along the way, how many innocents would have been hurt or killed?

Meticulous planning. This isn't a spur of the moment, I'm going to get them back, sort of deal. This kid is disturbed in a most profound way. Bad parenting? Maybe. Bullied? Maybe. Just plain evil? Maybe. A combination of these and other reasons? Probable.

But whatever the "reasons", actions have consequences, and he's about to find that out.

So I have read all the replies, and here is what I have to say...

How can any of you possibly try to justify or explain away wanting to commit mass murder? The way that excuses are made for this type of behavior is just ridiculous. I understand that some of you may have experienced bullying like this before and have experienced some of the same emotions that the individual in discussion has, but as one of the posters above explained, killing never crossed his mind.

I think it's really ridiculous that anybody tries to stand up for this kid. As more information comes out, he just wanted to be famous and rack up a kill count and become a media sensation. And also, as someone else brought up, where were the parents?

Bottom line, I can understand and sympathize with the strong emotions felt when you are "singled out", but to argue that this was justified or acceptable is incorrect. That is just the same argument as saying it's understandable to blow yourself up on a bus in the middle of a city because western countries don't respect your beliefs. (Call it a straw man, it's not.)

Originally posted by namehere

and this whole "years ago" nonsense, your assertion that bullying is a new thing is absurd and denies human nature, when in groups humans always target outsiders, individuals who act different than "everyone else" and minority groups, by their very nature humans discriminate and attack things that are different than themselves.

I don't really want to go back and forth on semantics because I don't get my rocks off by arguing on the internet, but if you read what I have said I did not say that bullying is a new thing. Have you ever seen a Christmas Story? The bully gets beat down when the bullied had had enough, just as an example(Older film). I would just like to see an example where a kid in the 30's, 40's, 50's went to school and killed a bunch of his classmates or built bombs and tried to blow his school up because Tommy down the bock called him fat...

Feel me?

I thought all you people were against being arrested for thought crimes? I once remember a lot people arguing for a man who had Japanese porn with pictures depicting children involved in sexual activities. The main points of the arguments were..children weren't real..no crime was committed on real children because man had only fantasized about it, therefore it was a thought crime which should not be considered a crime.

Hypocrites. People of ATS love to cherry pick topics. I am not saying I disagree with either.I just love pointing out the hypocrisy of ATS.

reply to post by kerazeesicko


Building and possessing bombs is illegal....

reply to post by HomerinNC


SO just because you didn't means that other bull victims don't?

Originally posted by kerazeesicko
I thought all you people were against being arrested for thought crimes? I once remember a lot people arguing for a man who had Japanese porn with pictures depicting children involved in sexual activities. The main points of the arguments were..children weren't real..no crime was committed on real children because man had only fantasized about it, therefore it was a thought crime which should not be considered a crime.

Hypocrites. People of ATS love to cherry pick topics. I am not saying I disagree with either.I just love pointing out the hypocrisy of ATS.

Nice stereotyping bud. Next time, try avoiding the use of "all you people" and making base assumptions about others based on a forum. I haven't seen that thread so must've been before I arrived here but the example arguments posed in just your sentence actually are identical to what has been an issue within the Supreme Court as a "loophole" to child pornography through virtual reality as unsavory as it is ( see here: archives.cnn.com... ). But that's not the subject of this thread, which is another kid deciding that he wants to try to kill as many of his peers as possible.

On the subject of this thread, this kid did not engage in thought crime. There is a difference between 1. thinking without acting, 2. thinking and recording one's thoughts down, and 3. thinking, planning, recording, and constructing bombs in one's home. The first is not a crime. The second would probably warrant a talk to a licensed therapist and the third is criminal as it is a clear indicator of the intent to commit a crime--aka attempted murder. If you think that what he committed is a thought crime, then I guess hiring a hitman to take somebody out would be of the same equivalency in your rationale despite it showing clear intent to commit a crime.

You see how much TV time the media gives to successful attacks? It's no wonder kids see that as a way to leave a lasting memory and teach those bullies just who won in the end. The kid probably thought when it's all said and done his face and name will be known throughout the world. He'll make history. All because these killers are romantisized by the media.