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The truth about Islam

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posted on Nov, 12 2004 @ 09:33 PM
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It's all relative. The Muslim fundamentalists see Christianity as a threat to their culture, also. I dont see how the Bible is really any different, if people were to still take it literally, we'd stone children for cursing at their parents. The fact that the Muslims here in America can live peacefully among us proves that we can co-exist. Its just fundamentalists that we cant seem to get along with, which you can find in any religion. Besides, its not like they dont have legitmate reasons for hating America.




posted on Nov, 12 2004 @ 09:54 PM
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Im glad you have an interst in Islanm Please take rthe challange and learn all you can and then tell the people what you find.
Islam Quran is a handbook of war.A doctrine of conquest.

17.16. And when We decide to destroy a town (population), We (first) send a definite order (to obey Allh and be righteous) to those among them [or We (first) increase in number those of its population] who are given the good things of this life. Then, they transgress therein, and thus the word (of torment) is justified against it (them). Then We destroy it with complete destruction.

www.road-to-heaven.com...

(Radical Muslims have at times treated nonradicals as one large sleeper cell that can be activated by summons to the full practice of their religion. This is illustrated by a chilling story from the Ottoman Empire of the late nineteenth century:

Then one night, my husband came home and told me that the padisha had sent word that we were to kill all the Christians in our village, and that we would have to kill our neighbors. I was very angry, and told him that I did not care who gave such orders, they were wrong. These neighbors had always been kind to us, and if he dared to kill them Allah would pay us out. I tried all I could to stop him, but he killed them killed them with his own hand.

In this light, the number of terrorists and their sympathizers is likely to grow beyond Pipes 100 to 150 million. In a very real sense this group is what the less militant majority considers to be the conscience of the umma. They are the people who actually dare to do what Alla said to do, whatever the cost. (Islam Unveiled: Disturbing Questions About the Worlds Fastest-Growing Faith, by Robert Spencer)

www.road-to-heaven.com...

8.72. Verily, those who believed, and emigrated and strove hard and fought with their property and their lives in the Cause of Allh as well as those who gave (them) asylum and help, - these are (all) allies to one another. And as to those who believed but did not emigrate (to you O Muhammad ), you owe no duty of protection to them until they emigrate , but if they seek your help in religion, it is your duty to help them except against a people with whom you have a treaty of mutual alliance, and Allh is the All-Seer of what you do.

8.73. And those who disbelieve are allies to one another, (and) if you (Muslims of the whole world collectively) do not do so (i.e. become allies, as one united block with one Khalifah - chief Muslim ruler for the whole Muslim world to make victorious Allh's Religion of Islmic Monotheism), there will be Fitnah (wars, battles, polytheism, etc.) and oppression on earth, and a great mischief and corruption (appearance of polytheism).



posted on Nov, 12 2004 @ 10:06 PM
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Oh no not more jihad verses!



posted on Nov, 13 2004 @ 12:13 AM
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Originally posted by Ibn Iblis
Oh no not more jihad verses!

Its for your benifit only everyone else has me on ignore



posted on Nov, 13 2004 @ 12:19 AM
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Originally posted by Ashlar
do you seriously believe that muslims hold any significant power over americans???




Well... If you just look at it, 1 man = 1 man. But it states in the Qur'an that 1 Mo'min = 10 Non-belivers. So yeah, I believe that Muslims do hold an edge over anyone else, because at least they know what they are fighting for. At least they have unquestioned faith.



posted on Nov, 13 2004 @ 12:35 AM
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DO you believe allahs laws are better than say americas laws? or canadas?



posted on Nov, 13 2004 @ 12:50 AM
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Originally posted by KAOSKTRL
DO you believe allahs laws are better than say americas laws? or canadas?



An Emphatic YES.



posted on Nov, 13 2004 @ 12:52 AM
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And it's Allah, not allah.



posted on Nov, 13 2004 @ 01:03 AM
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Originally posted by Tamahu

Originally posted by KAOSKTRL
DO you believe allahs laws are better than say americas laws? or canadas?



An Emphatic YES.

DO you help Shairiah law come to America and other places?DO you want the constitution rewritten?



posted on Nov, 13 2004 @ 02:04 AM
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Originally posted by babar


(2,190-193)
And kill them wherever you comeupon them and expel them from where they expelled you, as persecuting people to sway from God's religion is worse than killing. But do not fight them at the Sacred Mosque, unless they fight you, then kill them

(4,101)
surely the unbelievers are to you an evident enemy


As you can see, nowhere in the Quran does God command senseless killing of innocents. Most of the quotes you supplied have been doctored in some way, something left out, or taken out of context.
It will be so nice if we could all practise a little tolerance, instead of blaming each other's religions as a reason for today's problems


I'll admit right now that they aren't the full quotes and thus are open to the charge of "doctoring" or "misinterpreting" but I don't see a lot of tolerance being preached in these quotes.

"and kill them wherever you come upon them..., as persecuting people to sway from God's religion is worse than killing."

How is this not a violent commandment to kill innocents? Oh, because no-one who advocates a system of belief different to Islam is innocent.

As for others claiming Ibn hates Muslims...He is the perfect debater, he has quoted and attacked scripture, always using the written word as evidence for his position. He hasn't expressed hate for Muslims as human beings, but he certainly isn't fond of their religion as recorded in their holy book. Try to do a little reading sometime.



posted on Nov, 13 2004 @ 04:01 AM
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As for others claiming Ibn hates Muslims...He is the perfect debater, he has quoted and attacked scripture, always using the written word as evidence for his position. He hasn't expressed hate for Muslims as human beings, but he certainly isn't fond of their religion as recorded in their holy book. Try to do a little reading sometime.


hehehe

Ibn Iblis is good at one thing, taking sentences out of context. (oh and KAOSKTRL too)

he takes 4 sentences from 4 different chapters from a book with 114 chapters to form one sura of his own, says that sura supports genocide on all non-muslims. But then when we point out that is not true, he quotes some other book, written in 7th century to prove that Qur'an is doing it.

He is not familiar with various sects of Islam, specialy the modern movements, he is not familiar with a fact that Shariah and Hadith laws don't hold much significance for a lot of Muslims who live in the year 2004, the present day, and not in 7th or 8th century. He is describing the laws of fundamental extremist wahabbi movement and is applying it to one billion people living in over 100 countries on Earth.

The further Muslims are from Saudi Arabia, the less evident is the influence of tribalisation and tribal laws. Bosnia being a very good example, there is no Shariah law there, Bosnia is a modern european country. (devastated by Serbian aggression though, but thats a completely different story).

So again, it is not the Qur'an that is creating evil.

If Qur'an was indoctrination book, dealing with how it is a duty of muslims to kill infidels, we would have one billion people running around killing others, because I can assure you, all muslims have read the qur'an several times, they pray every day, they take their religion seriously.
The fact that we do not see that today, a simple observation of reality, the fact that I am typing this here instead of going on a killing spree, proves that his view of Qur'an is flawed.

I can find you at least dozens of links on Internet which quote dozens of "scientific" papers on how earth is flat. That doesn't make it true. A simple observation without any scietific instruments can prove that the Earth is NOT flat. Same goes for this discussion.

He might have pointed out the danger of far right very extremist wahhabist view of Islam, but he presented it as a fundamental indoctrination found in Qur'an, which is simply not true.
He is confusing the general evil of men, with his theory.
News flash: human kind is cruel, evil, sick, and we are killing eachother since the begining of existance, regardless if we are pagans, christians, muslims, jews, hindu or jedi.

What can be described as a genetical trait of all humans, in his theory it has an origin in Qur'an.

He said that he has studied Islam for 6 months. Yet, he has failed to adress the actual issues that exist in Qur'an that seem to contradict itself.
He has yet to point out the actual origin and reason of why is the existence of extremist sects even possible.

He is completely ignoring geo-political situation in middle east, which has to great extent served as an actual motivation for forming of Al-Qaeda.

If Muslims are taught to kill only non-Muslims then why are they killing muslims in Iraq?
If Muslims are taught to kill all non-Muslims then how come there are over 2 million coptic christians in Egypt? A few million christians in Jordan? A million christians in Bosnia? Millions belonging to other religions in Indonesia? They should all be dead by now, if thats what the Qur'an teaches.
They are all, together with Muslims, in a same mess created by corrupted goverments, not by indoctrination of Qur'an itself. The issues of economy, non-functional reforms, corrupted politicians, all the things you can find in non-Muslim countries.

The real issue with Islam and "modern" society lies not in Qur'an. The issue is the abandonment of fatalistic views of life and, much like christian countries, the separation of this view from state business.
Christianity became what it is AFTER church lost power, before that they were a genocidal religion, millions of dead all over the world, all over Europe, beheadings were daily business for centuries in Europe. Would you say that is something found in message of Jesus? Or in the indoctrination of ruling establishment and their misinterpretation of their role in society? The divination of men, chosen as "representatives" of God on earth, giving themselves the authority to interpret and fulfil God's will.
That being the fundamental flaw of all religions and the cause of all problems.

Anyways, I've ranted enough for now, I think


Oh on a side note, it would be nice to keep all this islam discussion in one thread. There are already about 6 different ones, all with exactly the same things posted, too much repetition and it is difficult to keep up with comments then.



posted on Nov, 13 2004 @ 04:25 AM
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Originally posted by infinite
You have voted ZeroDeep for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have used all of your votes for this month.

I have become very alarmed with the amount of racist remarks i have seen against Islam in recent months. This is boarding of extremism. Blaming all muslims for a few extremist is stereotyping, racist and shouldn't be accepted. Yes, you have freedom of speech but that doesnt mean you can incite racial hatred. (btw,extremists are not muslims if you read the Qur'an, people who pick "bits" of the Qur'an to believe are not muslims)




Clue4YOU: Islam is not a race. It is an ideology. Please figure this out before clowning around in adult subjects.



posted on Nov, 13 2004 @ 06:05 AM
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Sweetie I've done alot more than just pick out 4 verses and screw the context up, and I think that's obvious. First of all, there are literally dozens of jihad verses in the Qur'an, and I still haven't quoted them all. The Qur'an is very repetative, especially when it comes to Allah's dislike of unbelievers and the torments of Hell which await them.

Second, as you well know, you cannot practice Islam unless you consult also the hadith. Allah says obey the Prophet and you obey God. That's why the hadith is there. If you choose not to consult it kudos to you but based on centuries of Islamic law that makes you an apostate.

And the hadith is just as filthy as the Qur'an--actually it's worse. When you understand that Muhammad embodied everything that is bad about Islam today--the rapes, the tortures, the beheadings, the ethnic cleansing, mass murders, pedophilia--everything else falls into place. He is Islam's founder, the apostle of God, and an example for Muslims throughout all time to emulate. And he was a total dirtbag.

You are right the further you are from Islamdom the less harsh the practices are. But there are still jihadists in Britain calling for worldwide caliphate, and replacing the bible with the Qur'an. There are jihadists in Europe. The Balkans (Chechnia?) Pakistan. Afghanistan. Africa. And it's coming to America. The problem with saying Saudi Arabia is "tribal" Islam is Saudi Arabia is the holiest land in all the world. You can't be a Muslim unless you make the hajj at least once. And they're the ones spreading the message of jihad in all these places. They're the ones building the mosques, where anti-Western, ultra-fundamentalist Wahhabism is tought.

And they are not distorting the Qur'an or the example of the prophet. Merely following them both to the letter. And if you're gonna believe in God it kind of makes sense to obey Him.



posted on Nov, 13 2004 @ 06:07 AM
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Originally posted by Tamahu

Originally posted by KAOSKTRL
DO you believe allahs laws are better than say americas laws? or canadas?



An Emphatic YES.


So you believe in sexual inequality? I mean, never mind the religious inequality. You believe women are second-class citizens?



posted on Nov, 13 2004 @ 08:31 AM
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HeHeHe

Lets see what muslims say on a islamic websire say about whabbies
-- Anokha Ladla --



Posts: 6799
Status: Offline
Registered: Feb 2002


Old Post posted 11-06-2004 10:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lajawab Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Click here to Send Lajawab a Private Message

Wahabbist belief aims to purge all innovations and Bida'as from Islam to keep it as pure as possible, and in reality, it is what every Muslim should strive to do...

Wahabbism is a word which has been made to look bad by the western media so that the mod-Muslim lapdogs have something to bark at and make a scapegoat out of...

But this thread will soon be closed like all others that tend to discuss Wahabbism or Salafism because GupShup and its admins are based in the US...No one likes a bad rap...


Or lets see what athiest say


Obviously, Wahhabi religious leaders reject any reinterpretation of the Quran when it comes to issues settled by the earliest Muslims. In taking this position, they place themselves in opposition to a variety of Muslim reform movements which developed in the late nineteenth and twentieth centuries. These movements worked to reinterpret aspects of Islamic law in order to bring it closer to standards set by the West, particularly with regards to topics like gender relations, family law, and participatory democracy.



posted on Nov, 13 2004 @ 08:53 AM
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Surah 2
Verse 6

"Verily, those who disbelieve, it is the same to them whether you warn them or do not warn them, they will not believe."



posted on Nov, 13 2004 @ 09:16 AM
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Fundamentalist Muslims, like the Taliban and the Wahhabis, believe that their misfortunes at the hands of the infidels, be it in war or just the mere fact that the West has left them behind in virtually every aspect of civilization, is not due so much to our own repression, though they often whine about it. The real crisis for them is Allah told them that if they are devout in faith He will aid them in overcoming any enemy. So it's not that they discourage rational thought. It's not that half their population (women) are forbidden from higher learning and participation in government. It's not that the majority of Muslim states export nothing except oil. It's because they've turned their backs to God and He is punishing them.

The further behind we leave Muslim society, the more they are going to turn to God to answer their problems. And that's going to be a problem, especially if we continue to do nothing to secure our borders and curb Muslim immigration.



posted on Nov, 13 2004 @ 03:23 PM
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US Soldiers in Foolajah have been finding innocent families that have decide to stay and try to rough it out in their homes have been shot in the back of the head for their trouble.
It is beyond why people think there is no distinct difference between "terrorist" and "religious".



posted on Nov, 13 2004 @ 05:44 PM
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The further behind we leave Muslim society, the more they are going to turn to God to answer their problems. And that's going to be a problem, especially if we continue to do nothing to secure our borders and curb Muslim immigration.



George Bush turns to God for his problems.

Deep



posted on Nov, 13 2004 @ 07:07 PM
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Ibn Bin Iblis, you certainly have the facts and verses.

Let me ask this of you, why in the middle east, in general, are there such hot tempers?

Does the physical temperature there have any relationship with the psychological temperature?



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