Two-thirds fear 'clash of civilisations' in wake of Woolwich murder

Originally posted by cody599
Go 40 minutes to her new school that she starts in September ............. not a Muslim in sight.

Full of kids who's parents read The Gaurdian.

The OP is just alarmist crap from the Gaurdian, a paper read by white middle class Britons that would run a mile if they saw a Muslim.

Maybe not. The Guardian has a very low circulation (about 200,000 copies) and half of them are bought by the BBC.

Still, Guardian readers have traditionally been staunch defenders of multiculturalism, which of course never actually extended to sending their kids to any multicultural schools. Naturally.

In terms of Muslims, while the Guardian itself keeps pumping out pro-Muslim propaganda, judging by the online comments on the Guardian, the readership is no longer believing it.

In other words, even Guardian readers have woken up to the danger that Islam poses. Any why wouldn't they?

not sure what form it would take but those buffoons from muslim patrol might want to stay off the streets because next time they accost someone they might have a mob grab them.

reply to post by TruthxIsxInxThexMist


"Kick Muslims out"?

Does that include White Muslims as well?

You do realize that you can't just "kick ethnic peoples out", right? Think of where they "originate" from - think of what Britain and Europe buys from those countries of origin. Think a little - and you'll see that many of their countries of origin are also countries which we have large trade deals, which have abundances of oil and important minerals. How do you think those governments are going to react if you start "kicking out ethnics"? Do you think it'll all go hunky dory? Do you think trade will continue? Do you think the United States will look on and simply allow you to do such a thing? Do you think Africa, Asia and the Middle East will clap in glee and watch on the sidelines? What do you think will happen to the millions of Britons across the entire planet? They'll just be left alone will they? Not kicked out too?

The fact is, that you're thinking far too narrowly - like some sort of closed-minded EDL-type figure. Hence why entities like the EDL and the BNP aren't in power - they're greatly incapable of critical thought and broad thinking. Have you even considered the economic and political implications of what you are suggesting?

Unless you're looking forward to a society of great poverty, unrest and general anger after you've "sent them all out", your idea is completely ludicrous. How will you sustain your economy after you've cut off the entire world? Who will you buy oil from? Natural resources? Who will trade with you?

You're seriously living in a fantasy world.

Additionally, when was the last "Islamic terrorist attack" on British soil before this Woolwich incident? 2005, was it? Right...

Originally posted by TruthxIsxInxThexMist
I posted a Thread couple weeks ago entitled 'The Clash Of All Clashes'. I'm pretty sure some you remember this Thread. Well, as this Poll suggests, it looks like this Clash is very close indeed, after the Woolwich Attack on Wednesday.... this shows in the report on this site:

www.guardian.co.uk...

The Poll also suggests that British Muslims pose a serious threat to democracy!

Nearly two-thirds of people believe there will be a 'clash of civilisations' between British Muslims and white Britons in the wake of the murder of a British soldier in Woolwich, a new poll shows.

The number of those who believe such a clash is inevitable has increased by 9% from last year.

There has also been a small increase in the proportion of people who believe British Muslims pose a serious threat to democracy, up to 34% on Thursday and Friday from 30% in November 2012, according to the YouGov survey of 1,839 adults.

The poll will fuel concern of an explosion of race hate, with one interfaith charity reporting a huge increase in anti-Muslim incidents since the murder of soldier Lee Rigby in south-east London on Wednesday.

Faith Matters, which runs a helpline, said they had received 162 calls since the attack, up from a daily average of six.

I would like to point out that the typical pie eating guy provided on the link is of no representation of the British Public! I have to ask why the media decided to put him as the main photo? Why not the average guy who wears a suit? Also, I wonder if by posting this guy on the link, is there another Agenda here? To get people to hate EDL even more???

Anyway, as i said in my Thread www.guardian.co.uk...

I think the Clash is coming.

edit on 25-5-2013 by TruthxIsxInxThexMist because: (no reason given)

I was initially shocked by the headlines on your OP as I read the Guardian on a Saturday whenever I am in the UK. There was no comment on racial identities so it was your spin on it. Many people of all skin colours are concerned about Islamic fundamentalism and complete ignorance as seen in the BNP and EDL. Nice try to turn it into a Black white thing… There have been white Islamic fundamentalists.

The guardian piece is an interesting piece as it has a media dissembling piece. Did you read the last paragraphs? What about paragraphs 8 to 10.

By and large Britain is tolerant and a quietly strong country.

Originally posted by Tiger5

Originally posted by TruthxIsxInxThexMist
I posted a Thread couple weeks ago entitled 'The Clash Of All Clashes'. I'm pretty sure some you remember this Thread. Well, as this Poll suggests, it looks like this Clash is very close indeed, after the Woolwich Attack on Wednesday.... this shows in the report on this site:

www.guardian.co.uk...

The Poll also suggests that British Muslims pose a serious threat to democracy!

Nearly two-thirds of people believe there will be a 'clash of civilisations' between British Muslims and white Britons in the wake of the murder of a British soldier in Woolwich, a new poll shows.

The number of those who believe such a clash is inevitable has increased by 9% from last year.

There has also been a small increase in the proportion of people who believe British Muslims pose a serious threat to democracy, up to 34% on Thursday and Friday from 30% in November 2012, according to the YouGov survey of 1,839 adults.

The poll will fuel concern of an explosion of race hate, with one interfaith charity reporting a huge increase in anti-Muslim incidents since the murder of soldier Lee Rigby in south-east London on Wednesday.

Faith Matters, which runs a helpline, said they had received 162 calls since the attack, up from a daily average of six.

I would like to point out that the typical pie eating guy provided on the link is of no representation of the British Public! I have to ask why the media decided to put him as the main photo? Why not the average guy who wears a suit? Also, I wonder if by posting this guy on the link, is there another Agenda here? To get people to hate EDL even more???

Anyway, as i said in my Thread www.guardian.co.uk...

I think the Clash is coming.

edit on 25-5-2013 by TruthxIsxInxThexMist because: (no reason given)

I was initially shocked by the headlines on your OP as I read the Guardian on a Saturday whenever I am in the UK. There was no comment on racial identities so it was your spin on it. Many people of all skin colours are concerned about Islamic fundamentalism and complete ignorance as seen in the BNP and EDL. Nice try to turn it into a Black white thing… There have been white Islamic fundamentalists.

The guardian piece is an interesting piece as it has a media dissembling piece. Did you read the last paragraphs? What about paragraphs 8 to 10.

By and large Britain is tolerant and a quietly strong country.

The OP seems to be greatly confused and closed-minded - one of those low IQ EDL-types. He seems to think that Muslim=Brown people. What shock he will get when he finds out that it doesn't! I do wonder what he'll do with the non-Brown/Black people who are Muslims and who have over 30 generations of "Britishness" in their "blood"!

"Kick those Muzzies out", he says - yeah...and then what? Everything will be hunky dory and trade with the international community will go on as normal? The UN will nod their heads and not say a thing? The EU will sit on their hands? Nobody'll take notice?

The OP is living in some fantasy world like Breivik was...

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by Kashai

Again only the extreemist are the issue and in all sincerty every society around today has people like that.

But the question is, why does Islam have so many extremists?

• 1 in 8 British Muslims support demonstrators who call for the death of those who insult Islam

ICM Research

• 68% of British Muslims believe that people who insult Islam should be arrested and prosecuted.

CBS

• NOP Research survey reports "hardcore Islamists" constitute 9% of the British Muslim population.

• A second group, 29% of the British Muslim population are "staunch defenders of Islam", who aggressively defend their religion from internal and external threats, real or imagined.

• 28% of British Muslims hope for the U.K. one day to become a fundamentalist Islamic state.

CBS

• 40% of UK Muslims support Sharia law being introduced in areas of Britain which are predominantly Muslim. 41% oppose this. 18% are undecided.

ICM Research

• 24% of British Muslims Support Suicide Bombing of Civilian Targets

• 35% of British Muslims aged 18-29 Support Suicide Bombing of Civilian Targets

Pew Research Poll (2007)

What can be stated is that there are a large number of extremist Muslims in the UK.





Great questions. I just wished that you had a separate OP that those who THINK (before acting) could have a sensible discussion.

I believe that there is a form of inferiority complex around these extremists. If your religion is the best why try to shove it down anyone else's throats? Britain has a long history of mocking Xtianity. Something that shocked me was how much modern cultural expressions have biblical origins. As a child I grew up in a British colony which had a used expressions like "the weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth". It was only in my 30s I realized that it was a biblical quote - a small example that illustrates my point.

The whole issue of Palestine is a smoke screen as the Palestinian issue goes back the to creation of Israel so I must ask how come the fundamentalists have discovered this in the last ten years????

Originally posted by HomoSapiensSapiens
The OP seems to be greatly confused and closed-minded - one of those low IQ EDL-types

You couldn't be more wrong.

People sympathising with the far-right group are mostly white-collar, managerial or skilled workers, the Chatham House think tank said.

The Huffington Post

If the OP is an EDL type, he could easily be your boss!

These are the kind of attitudes that lead to Fascism. Here's an interesting standard: treat people well, regardless of their beliefs.

My second part of brain suggests that due to Muslim's other "dark skinned" people are facing hate in western countries such as Sikhs and Hindus who very well adapt to any environment they are in, in western countries.

Which also makes me upset and angry on Muslim extremism but who should i put the blame on? Individuals of Muslim faith who commit crimes and bring the wrath of Christians and other "white skinned" people on dark skinned people or the foreign policies of "white skinned" who contribute and are the cause of Muslim extremism. Its such a dilemma!

Maybe it's for the best I avoid thinking about it and enjoy my beer. What say?

reply to post by ollncasino


The EDL-types are typically young working class "skinheads". I highly doubt a successful banker or law firm partner would have the time or care to join such a low movement.

The reason I say that the OP is thinking in such closed-mind and narrow-minded ways is because he does not think broadly and think of all avenues and consider many implications and consequences of his proposed "solutions". Highly successful and intelligent persons do this - hence why they would not just simply jump at the "throw all them Muzzies out". What's more, is that all of these big conglomerate and corporate types and leaders actually benefit more from these globalist agendas than your average working class lad or ladette - more globalism means more profit for them.

So I highly doubt what you say. The EDL are typically your pub-skinhead-football yobs-hooligans who just wildly scream "throw those Muzzies out". They couldn't lead a small company, let alone an entire region, let alone an entire country!

Originally posted by Tiger5

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by Kashai

edit on 26-5-2013 by ollncasino because: (no reason given)

The whole issue of Palestine is a smoke screen as the Palestinian issue goes back the to creation of Israel so I must ask how come the fundamentalists have discovered this in the last ten years????

They have not but it is not a 'muslim' issue.
The 'issue' of the Palestinians is quite different and complex and many of them were and are Christians, not muslims.

Originally posted by HomoSapiensSapiens
reply to post by ollncasino

 

The EDL-types are typically young working class "skinheads". I highly doubt a successful banker or law firm partner would have the time or care to join such a low movement.

:

Maybe so - but what about their backers and supporters.
????
What about shared views even if their methods are different ?

Don't be naive.

Originally posted by HomoSapiensSapiens
reply to post by ollncasino

 

The EDL-types are typically young working class "skinheads".

"Skinhead" or close cropped hair is a lifestyle not to be confused with fascism or a movement, even a long haired individual can have extremist views,

Hmm, I know that any response that criticises the Muslim population of Britain may come under severe ridicule and complaint of racism, xenophobia, "Little Englander", white trash, low IQ, ignorant, misinformed, hating, BNP, EDL, far-right, right-wing etc, etc.

To all those who espouse such complaint we allege you are simply and effectively acting as apologists for the invasion and ethnic cleansing of the English from our own lands. (Now we expect you to start-off on about how we are all human, etc, etc.. Bollocks.) Even by United Nations definitions the English are being ethnically cleansed, despite their demands (growing incidentally) that their rights to self-determination and access to social services be upheld.

To even suggest that English demands are represented by those we elect is to suggest that our democracy effectively represents the populace. Time and time again, we are witness to the corrupt and incestual nature of UK and English politics at all levels. Do you really think, with those "captured" representees, and liberal-minded media that any pro-English party could effectively campaign in any UK (and specifically, English) election? If you think so, then you are a seriously deluded and blind moron. That's just campaigning! Can you even imagine what would happen if the BNP or UKIP began to get poll numbers that would indicate them winning a General Election outright? Heck, just standing in every seat would signify a massive failure of the liberal media, that such an eventuality whereby the people who actually vote would contemplate even voting for a pro-English party (and UKIP is not specifically "pro" English in any way) is so patently remote that it is laughable.

So, essentially, to suggest that English people resort to the democratic means is a fallacy built upon ignorance. It is possibly also built upon hatred of the English and one's continued denial that we have any claims to exist as a nation of peoples. If you believe that, then you are a racist - that is the direct effect of your supporting what you call "multiculturalism" (what we call racism and genocide, i.e. the purposeful denial of our right to exist as a nation with sovereignty.)

So what of the OP? What will the English do in light of such a brazen declaration against our people and our troops? Sadly, I have always believed that the English have historically been special for two things: (1) we do not fight until it is clear that our trust has been betrayed and that peaceful means have and will continue to fail (the measurement being the safety and security of the English); (2) we also fight like b**stards when we have to, and when called upon motivate all levels of society - including the "dregs" and "underclasses" to fight and commit 110% in any war effort we mobilise toward.

The big question is "have the English reached the end of trusting that muslims (and maybe even all people who are different, though that is a big unknown motivator) and their apologists can exist within our society peacefully and with respect toward the English and Christians (afterall - the UK is NOT a secular state, despite popular thinking: our Head of State is the head of the Church of England, i.e. Christian!)?"

In my own opinion, if the great masses have not been motivated as yet by the barbarity of the muslims then they are very, very close to being so. I would not be surprised to see small and scattered incidents of shootings and small bombings to be directed toward both individuals and organisations that indicate a hatred or dissatisfaction with English, UK, or Christian values (or plainly just a hatred of us). Such incidents will of-course be labeled by the establishment and media as "terrorist" and the actions of "far-right" "loonies"> The truth will be that the establishment and media are/will be the ones acting racist by even suggesting that the English should shut-up, sit-back, watch TV, and accept these bloody attacks upon our peoples. They are so removed from the people they claim to represent t that they have little or no conceptualization as to what makes us tick, so-to-speak. After-all most of the MP's at Westminster are not even of English descent! And they have been ripping-off tax-payers and the public, and consumers for so-long that, even if they are truly English, they have lost ALL credibility with the English (except that bemusing and elite minority that actually votes for these racists).

In the long term? What we may see is a full scale, and possibly mechanically ordered, people's response to the muslims and their apologists. I for one do not care how the English get rid of these awful creatures: all I know is that this left-wing and liberal-minded concept that is "multiculturalism" is actually a crime against humanity. It is only natural that any race of people, any nation of people, will use violence to regain and protect their own right to govern and assert it's own right to exist as a Nation.

Originally posted by Ek Bharatiya

Originally posted by HomoSapiensSapiens
reply to post by ollncasino

 

The EDL-types are typically young working class "skinheads".

"Skinhead" or close cropped hair is a lifestyle not to be confused with fascism or a movement, even a long haired individual can have extremist views,

Hence why I put it in quotation marks, so as not to lump all people who have cut their hair low or have close cropped hair. Freaking soldiers have such hair for goodness' sake, so clearly I don't mean all.

I was just referring to the type of stereotypical image that we would all know...

Originally posted by HomoSapiensSapiens

So I highly doubt what you say. The EDL are typically your pub-skinhead-football yobs-hooligans who just wildly scream "throw those Muzzies out". They couldn't lead a small company, let alone an entire region, let alone an entire country!

I didn't say it. The Huffington post did.

People sympathising with the far-right group are mostly white-collar, managerial or skilled workers, the Chatham House think tank said.

The Huffington Post

Originally posted by HomoSapiensSapiens

Highly successful and intelligent persons do this - hence why they would not just simply jump at the "throw all them Muzzies out".

Those highly successful and intelligent persons wouldn't be you by any chance?

reply to post by HelenConway


I highly doubt that wealthy and successful persons and elites would support random yobs - non-globalism isn't even in their best interests. How would they line their pockets with more profit if they don't get cheap overseas immigrants flooding in and working for pittances?

Globalism lines the pockets of the richest - it doesn't think of the little man or the "little Englander" and I highly doubt that the elite in their ivory towers are concerned with "cleansing". The violence on the streets would never dare reach them.

Originally posted by HomoSapiensSapiens
reply to post by HelenConway

 

I highly doubt that wealthy and successful persons and elites would support random yobs - non-globalism isn't even in their best interests. How would they line their pockets with more profit if they don't get cheap overseas immigrants flooding in and working for pittances?

Globalism lines the pockets of the richest - it doesn't think of the little man or the "little Englander" and I highly doubt that the elite in their ivory towers are concerned with "cleansing". The violence on the streets would never dare reach them.

I would lik eto point out again though, that the clash of cultures between islam and other has NOTHING to do with race and place of origin. It is just as it says a clash of cultures,

I speak as someone who loves the Middle East, the desert and the bedouins - but they as far from ' polictical islam' as Jupiter is from Mars.

Originally posted by Blister
Sadly, I have always believed that the English have historically been special for two things: (1) we do not fight until it is clear that our trust has been betrayed and that peaceful means have and will continue to fail (the measurement being the safety and security of the English)

Wrong! I have to call you out here, because "historically" speaking British empire committed many crimes on Indian soil. Britishers did have peaceful means but chose the route of violence in cases such as "Jallianwala Bagh massacre". Please explain me how the "peaceful means" were expired in this massacre? I'm all ears.

(2) we also fight like b**stards when we have to,

You got that right there! Britisher's do, historically speaking.

Don't mistake me, I completely agree with you that what happened in the soldier case was a crime and atrocity but what makes me angry is when you portray British history as heroic and brave. That is not the case!

I still remember when Britisher's put the sign on my land which said "Dog's and Indians not allowed"!


Even though it was not your fault and probably happened in the time of your grandfather or your great grandfather, but when yo boast about British history being brave and courageous it just messes with my mind. That sign was put up on Indian soil, on my land..so please don't go boasting about the British history ever again! It just infuriates me.

Originally posted by HelenConway

Originally posted by HomoSapiensSapiens
reply to post by HelenConway

 

I highly doubt that wealthy and successful persons and elites would support random yobs - non-globalism isn't even in their best interests. How would they line their pockets with more profit if they don't get cheap overseas immigrants flooding in and working for pittances?

Globalism lines the pockets of the richest - it doesn't think of the little man or the "little Englander" and I highly doubt that the elite in their ivory towers are concerned with "cleansing". The violence on the streets would never dare reach them.

I would lik eto point out again though, that the clash of cultures between islam and other has NOTHING to do with race and place of origin. It is just as it says a clash of cultures,

I speak as someone who loves the Middle East, the desert and the bedouins - but they as far from ' polictical islam' as Jupiter is from Mars.

OK, understood - glad that was cleared up.

It's just that I thought the OP and others were greatly mixed up between Islam and non-white peoples and whatnot.

People must realize that Muslims are not in any way similar to Jews, in that Jews can legitimately be labeled as an "ethno-religious" group (i.e. race), whereas Muslims are followers of a religion (not a race). So, "throwing all of those Muzzies" out would be quite silly, in that many would have had generations of British "blood flowing through them" - so where exactly would you "throw them out too"?

Originally posted by Ek Bharatiya
Wrong! I have to call you out here, because "historically" speaking British empire committed many crimes on Indian soil. Britishers did have peaceful means but chose the route of violence in cases such as "Jallianwala Bagh massacre".

Your argument would be more convincing if Indians didn't immediately start murdering each other as soon as the British left in 1948.

It resulted in a struggle between the newly constituted states of India and Pakistan and displaced up to 12.5 million people with estimates of loss of life varying from several hundred thousand to a million

Partition of India

The 'evil' British were preventing the Indians from killing each other. It is generally accepted that Indians murdered 500,000 of their own people, mostly women and children, when the British were forced out.