What is the highest good? (I say "Patience" rather than "Love")

I expect that most will say "love" but I am beginning to believe that patience is the highest good and "love" arises from it.

I consider "good" to be that which promotes unity, freedom, and happiness among everyone.
I consider "bad" to be that which promotes isolation, control, and suffering among everyone.

I am not telling everyone to accept this. I am just sharing my own definitions of these words based on my own preferences (intentions and desires).

I created a scale of "goodness" in order to explain:

Scale of goodness (one leads to the other):

Patience > Acceptance > Compassion > Giving (Helping)


Scale of wrongfulness (one leads to the other):

Impatience > Control > Apathy > Taking (Abuse)

-Scale of Goodness-

Patience leads to Acceptance.

It takes patience in order to have acceptance towards a person or a situation because impatiences will lead to the impulse to control or become irritated.

Acceptance leads to Compassion.

Having acceptance towards a person will allow one to understand the person's thoughts and emotions more (Compassion). Having acceptance towards a situation, rather than quickly trying to change it, will allow one to have a clarity of thought and to gain more perspective to make a decision.

Compassion leads to Giving.

When a person understands that other people have their own fears, beliefs, and struggles in life (compassion) that will influence a person to do something about it. Pain hurts and sharing in another person's pain also hurts which will then lead to giving (either advice or something material) in order to help the person to be more successful and happy in life.

-Scale of Wrongfulness-

Impatience leads to Control

Feeling impatient will lead to a strong impulse to act. Acting from impatience can cloud a person's judgement. It can also cause one to become angry faster and it is more likely to turn into aggression (control) than with having patience.

Control leads to Apathy

When one is controlling, the only thing that matters is if everything is being controlled in the way that the person wants. The only thing that matters is if everyone is "obeying" their rules. The feelings, thoughts, opinions, experiences of pain and suffering becomes ignored because more effort is going into controlling out of impatience rather than the acceptance in order to understand which comes with patience. This leads to apathy (not caring or not even noticing the mental and emotional state of others - compassion)

Apathy leads to Taking

When there is apathy, then everyone's emotions, thoughts, and opinions are not considered or not noticed. In this mindset, other people are just "things" where one can take what they want for them.

---

It makes sense even when it is seen in a romantic couple.

How can one claim to love someone if they do not have acceptance for who they are?
How can one come to understand a person and gain acceptance of them without patience?


What are your thoughts on this?

I would say Justice is the highest good.

All of your examples stem from it and without it none are possible.

I know of some very patient yet devious people.

So your theory falls flat already...and besides.. one without all the others does not amount to much anyway.

reply to post by arpgme


The highest good, I believe, is putting the self aside.

When we put the self aside, then love arises automatically.

However, putting the self aside is not easy, so in the meantime, practice patience and understanding.

Yep, and you can love somebody and still kill them.

However if you are a just person you will follow the highest ethical and moral standards from which all good things like love, patience, and compassion emerge.

Originally posted by mysticnoon
reply to post by arpgme

 

The highest good, I believe, is putting the self aside.

When we put the self aside, then love arises automatically.

However, putting the self aside is not easy, so in the meantime, practice patience and understanding.

That is incorrect and Buddha explained this when he talked about desire. If a person no longer wants anything for themself they will not desire to be good therefore a person should never put themself aside to sacrifice for others.

Out of caring for oneself it creates the desire to help others, without desire of wanting to help someone you won't. Therefor yourself is the most important.

Being true to ones self, is the "highest good".

Be who you are and accept responsibility for your actions or inactions.

Originally posted by RobertF
Being true to ones self, is the "highest good".

Be who you are and accept responsibility for your actions or inactions.

edit on 8-5-2013 by RobertF because: to add info

What if Hitlers true self was to start world war 2 and kill millions of people?

How can being true to oneself be the highest good if it hurts others?

Originally posted by Hopechest

Originally posted by mysticnoon
reply to post by arpgme

 

The highest good, I believe, is putting the self aside.

When we put the self aside, then love arises automatically.

However, putting the self aside is not easy, so in the meantime, practice patience and understanding.

That is incorrect and Buddha explained this when he talked about desire. If a person no longer wants anything for themself they will not desire to be good therefore a person should never put themself aside to sacrifice for others.

Out of caring for oneself it creates the desire to help others, without desire of wanting to help someone you won't. Therefor yourself is the most important.

I do not follow this line of reasoning.

If we put aside our own desires and wants, then our innermost nature - which I believe is love - will manifest itself without desiring it or wanting it. It is who we are, in essence. There is no calculation involved, only love.

reply to post by arpgme


@What is the highest good? (I say "Patience" rather than "Love")

You cover some good points arpgme and 1 shall add to your OP Respect. For when 1 can respect themselves and others Patience and good come with. Nice share

NAMASTE*******

reply to post by arpgme


Interesting thoughts, arpgme,

I'd go along with patience, or tolerance, as the highest good, sadly, like most humans, I rarely enter that state, and when I do, I feel smug about it, which leads to pride...Damn ! A flaw in my saintliness !

Originally posted by mysticnoon

Originally posted by Hopechest

Originally posted by mysticnoon
reply to post by arpgme

 

The highest good, I believe, is putting the self aside.

When we put the self aside, then love arises automatically.

However, putting the self aside is not easy, so in the meantime, practice patience and understanding.

That is incorrect and Buddha explained this when he talked about desire. If a person no longer wants anything for themself they will not desire to be good therefore a person should never put themself aside to sacrifice for others.

Out of caring for oneself it creates the desire to help others, without desire of wanting to help someone you won't. Therefor yourself is the most important.

I do not follow this line of reasoning.

If we put aside our own desires and wants, then our innermost nature - which I believe is love - will manifest itself without desiring it or wanting it. It is who we are, in essence. There is no calculation involved, only love.

Your idea only works if our essence is indeed love.

Love doesn't feed me
Love doesn't keep me warm at night
Love doesn't keep me safe from harm

Survival does though, not a single creature on earth lives on the emotion of love alone.

Name a single non-human that can survive on "love"...

Originally posted by mysticnoon

Originally posted by Hopechest

Originally posted by mysticnoon
reply to post by arpgme

 

The highest good, I believe, is putting the self aside.

When we put the self aside, then love arises automatically.

However, putting the self aside is not easy, so in the meantime, practice patience and understanding.

That is incorrect and Buddha explained this when he talked about desire. If a person no longer wants anything for themself they will not desire to be good therefore a person should never put themself aside to sacrifice for others.

Out of caring for oneself it creates the desire to help others, without desire of wanting to help someone you won't. Therefor yourself is the most important.

I do not follow this line of reasoning.

If we put aside our own desires and wants, then our innermost nature - which I believe is love - will manifest itself without desiring it or wanting it. It is who we are, in essence. There is no calculation involved, only love.

Yea its a bit hard to grasp but what he is saying that if you put aside your desire then you will no longer desire anything, including love.

Therefore you must have desire and wants and greed so that you desire the good in life and for others.

You will become, and I forget his phrase, but basically an empty shell devoid of anything. Its our desire for what we want that produces the good and bad. But you can have neither if you don't care about yourself first.

Its like the love a parent has for their child. If they did not desire to love that child and cast their feelings away then they wouldn't care for the child whatsoever. Its their desire to feel love for themselves that allows them to feel.

When it was said that you should put your feelings aside for others, Buddha explains that it is simply not possible. If a person cast themselves aside then they wouldn't care anything for others. It is only the desire for themselves and what they want that allows them to want to care and help others.

Mother Teresa did not cast herself aside to do her great work. She did what she did because of the desire for herself and how it made her feel. If she didn't care about that then she wouldn't have helped people as she did.

# TRUTH #


I know many people who's lives have been turned upside down and have been devastated

by the LIES of others

I think the greater good is Forgiveness.
Through forgiveness comes peace, acceptance, healing,contentment, happiness
My two cents, for what it's worth

Originally posted by eletheia







# TRUTH #


I know many people who's lives have been turned upside down and have been devastated

by the LIES of others

So if you murder someone and admit to it that would be the highest good?

I don't think your victim would agree.

Surely the sun, upon which all depends, is the highest good.

2nd

Yeah whats good again. My mum says she loves me but shes the first to ring the cops on me when she thinks i am in trouble because she doesn't understand me one iota. Her version of love is control. Now i wont speak to her but i love love her just the same, i just cant stand the needy desire that people maintain is "love"

Originally posted by Bybyots
Surely the sun, upon which all depends, is the highest good.

2nd

There are many creatures at the bottom of the Sea that never see the sun and live just fine. Or they live in pools of water deep underground in a cave and survive in total isolation.

How cells manage to survive without the Sun

You ask specifically about those animals that live in the deep dark of rock or sea. These creatures, over millions of years, evolved to use energy supplied from our planet rather than our sun.

www.theglobeandmail.com...

reply to post by Hopechest

There are many creatures at the bottom of the Sea that never see the sun and live just fine. Or they live in pools of water deep underground in a cave and survive in total isolation.

Ah, and how would you know any of that, about fish or justice, without your eye having the benefit of the light of the sun?