What is the highest good? (I say "Patience" rather than "Love")

reply to post by jjkenobi


But isn't compassion a reaction to something stronger? And if you read my post above it explains that sometimes compassion isn't always the best route. Often it is good, but should it be a solid rule.

Everything starts with a feeling so wouldn't empathy be the catalyst as it doesn't involve any action that could be dualistic and it's ability, the highest "good" due to it's nature regarding personal knowledge?

The ability to empathise involves a certain amount of self awareness, understanding, experience and control, all of which show a person has a little wisdom through personal experience, and wisdom is the key to using one's abilities at the right time in the right situation for the right reasons. Ultimately, the ability to have consideration for others on a level of thought that leads to all the other "goods" mentioned in this thread.

Compassion is often easier to offer than empathy is to feel but only empathy can lead the feeler to higher understanding of others and the ability to give the right thing at the right time.

I don't think compassion is stronger than the feeling of empathy that can lead to it.

I would have to agree with OP because as they say:
patience is a virtue.

but i believe that Love is right up there with it.

i would say patience out of love is the highest good.

reply to post by arpgme

indeed patience is the greatest moral characteristic. if we look at monotheistic religions as moral reformers, we can feel the importance of patience. for example :
"A patient man is better than a warrior, and he who rules his temper, than he who takes a city." (Proverbs 16:32)
"I swear by the time, Most surely man is in loss, Except those who believe and do good, and enjoin on each other truth, and enjoin on each other patience." (Quran 103:1)
"Jesus might display his unlimited patience as an example for those who would believe on him and receive eternal life".(1 Timothy 1:15-17, NIV)

patience is half of any belief. since you should be able to handle the truth. for example when a person wants to love God, it should first get familiar with God and the other half is patience. patience of worshiping him. so patience is half of any belief. this is the common point among monotheistic religions.
in lower scale we can generalize this fact to low level kinds of Love in people's life.
patience is the window of reaching the truth.
by the way denying ignorance is itself a patience.

reply to post by arpgme


I would say nothing is the highest good, and all the things you posted are good and beneficial.

All roads lead to 'rome' so to speak.

Love will lead to patience, as patience leads to love. The secret in seeing it correctly, is not seeing it as separate, but part of each other, you're just choosing to focus on certain aspects of one.

Definitely power. Those that are able to wield power should take as much power for themselves as they can. If they do not, either someone that is less able will rise to power, or people will fall into a state of apathy and/or anarchy without a powerful figurehead leading them.

Let us apply Kant's categorical imperative to this concept of power as the greatest good. If all people in the world strive to gain as much power as they can, then naturally those humans that are the most gifted and most talented will rise to power, and will further the progress of the human race more so than if someone less gifted rises to power, or if no one is in power.

Those that do not rise to the top of the social, political, and economic hierarchies eventually will accept their lot in life as being subordinate to a more gifted and powerful human being. When the majority of people have reached as high as they can go in the social, political, and economic hierarchies, they will be content with how high they have risen, and will willingly serve under people that are more able than them.

I work as tech support for a major company, I have been doing this for a very long time now, and this requires more patience than you could possibly imagine, and I truly mean that. That being said, I have very little love for people outside of what Jesus Himself bestows upon me.

reply to post by honested3


sounds like you would be happier if you had more power

Originally posted by Wang Tang
Definitely power. Those that are able to wield power should take as much power for themselves as they can. If they do not, either someone that is less able will rise to power, or people will fall into a state of apathy and/or anarchy without a powerful figurehead leading them.

Let us apply Kant's categorical imperative to this concept of power as the greatest good. If all people in the world strive to gain as much power as they can, then naturally those humans that are the most gifted and most talented will rise to power, and will further the progress of the human race more so than if someone less gifted rises to power, or if no one is in power.

Those that do not rise to the top of the social, political, and economic hierarchies eventually will accept their lot in life as being subordinate to a more gifted and powerful human being. When the majority of people have reached as high as they can go in the social, political, and economic hierarchies, they will be content with how high they have risen, and will willingly serve under people that are more able than them.

This is how the world is now - power crazy. They are power crazy because they feel powerless. Everyone is in fear of not being enough - they feel lack - because of this feeling of lack they want more.
Individuals are needy and greedy and rarely satisfied.

Is one aspect of Love more important than another?

Patience is Love, its an aspect of Love. Should one tell a homeless person, patience, if they have the means to get a warm coffee or hot chocolate for them, and food?

Should one say patience to their neighbors son in the pen, when they suggested he was lonely, and you used to be his role model, taking him camping and fishing?

Should one say patience when you had an argument, where both sides tried to dominate the will of the other, instead of understanding each others perspectives?

Patience has its time and place, so does everything else.

In "The Pursuit of Common Sense", I wrote of Patience as the first step on the path of virtues. The original concept of the word is to be a good patient. These days it mainly means to be good at waiting for things to happen, but the root concept still applies. You have to learn to endure your own pain, your own desires, your own need to insert yourself into what is happening, to be the center of attention, stop listening to your own thoughts going through your head, and pay attention to what is happening around you, what others are saying.

I think this is the key to all virtues.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
This is how the world is now - power crazy. They are power crazy because they feel powerless. Everyone is in fear of not being enough - they feel lack - because of this feeling of lack they want more.
Individuals are needy and greedy and rarely satisfied.

And there is nothing wrong with how the world is now, this is the natural state of affairs. Scarcity is prevalent throughout the world so it is natural that humans should feel like they lack things, because they do. Humans are not enough, they never will be enough, so they pursue power in order to feel like they are more than just nothing.

No one has spoken a phrase more true than when you said "individuals are needy and greedy and rarely satisfied." There is no avoiding this fact, and so I believe our concept of the highest good should take into consideration scarcity, the unavoidable fact of life.

Originally posted by Wang Tang

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
This is how the world is now - power crazy. They are power crazy because they feel powerless. Everyone is in fear of not being enough - they feel lack - because of this feeling of lack they want more.
Individuals are needy and greedy and rarely satisfied.

And there is nothing wrong with how the world is now, this is the natural state of affairs. Scarcity is prevalent throughout the world so it is natural that humans should feel like they lack things, because they do. Humans are not enough, they never will be enough, so they pursue power in order to feel like they are more than just nothing.

No one has spoken a phrase more true than when you said "individuals are needy and greedy and rarely satisfied." There is no avoiding this fact, and so I believe our concept of the highest good should take into consideration scarcity, the unavoidable fact of life.

Forget the world - do 'you' enjoy feeling powerless? You say that it is natural but do you want to live life feeling this way? Does being needy and greedy and rarely satisfied cut it for you? Don't you want to be satisfied and fulfilled?

When you discover that you are nothing - you will no longer feel powerless. That nothing can only be filled with what is - yet there is a belief that there is more than there is.
Are you really lacking?

If you check - you may find the end to your imagined lack.
Maybe lack is a belief and not actually a fact.

To the highest good is to the ecosystem - in terms of sustainable - always to the more produce than you consume.