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Thonis-Heracleion - Ancient Egyptian port-city being revealed by underwater archaeology (pix)

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posted on Jun, 6 2013 @ 06:53 AM
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How about you do your own research? Try Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute - they are the leading authority on ancient coastlines in the region (and globally).

Or you could just simply believe everything you read on the internet............


Seriously though, try Woods Hole and do the research - i have. You will find out about regional fluctuations and various pulse events, as well as other factors affecting coastlines in varying regions and through the ages. It is an eye opener in many respects.
edit on 6-6-2013 by Flavian because: More on topic




posted on Jun, 6 2013 @ 06:59 AM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 


What cities have been found off the coast of Japan ? And what's left of them since the EQ ?



posted on Jun, 6 2013 @ 07:06 AM
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Originally posted by Flavian
How about you do your own research? Try Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute - they are the leading authority on ancient coastlines in the region (and globally).

Or you could just simply believe everything you read on the internet............


It wasn't just "something read in the internet"...


Originally posted by Flavian
Seriously though, try Woods Hole and do the research - i have. You will find out about regional fluctuations and various pulse events, as well as other factors affecting coastlines in varying regions and through the ages. It is an eye opener in many respects.


Wow, I guess I haven't done any research at all...


Anyway, I didn't want to derail the topic, just wanted to give my general opinion that more such cities will be found underwater.



posted on Jun, 6 2013 @ 09:34 AM
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BTW, first of all you should notice how in the video I gave about Pavlopetri they explain how they found evidence that this previously totally unknown city port sunk slowly into the ocean because of large geological events that sunk the city in what appear to be 3 stages. Pavlopetri seems to be around 3,000 to 4,000 years old, so it is possible for older civilizations to have sunk underwater much deeper.

Second of all, I found a video interview done to Paulina Zelitsky in which she explains the government in Cuba has stated that for them is more important to allow a Chinese, or Indian company to explore for oil in that area, than to spend who knows how much, and get nothing out of it, just to explore an ancient Mexican city.

The interview is in Spanish, if you understand Spanish here is the link. She explains this almost at the end of the interview.



edit on 6-6-2013 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 6 2013 @ 09:44 PM
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Originally posted by PtolemyII
reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 


What cities have been found off the coast of Japan ? And what's left of them since the EQ ?


There was a report that some Japanese archeologists found some ruins off the coast of Japan in Arami? back in 2002, but that story disappeared and even the Japanese news stopped posting about it so I am not sure what happened to that one.

There is also the Yonagumi formation, although some geologists say it is natural, others say that it was a natural formation that was then carved by humans to create some sort of monument. Even thou some geologists claim it is natural, the site has 45 and 90 degree angles in the slabs of rock, there are rounded shapes and other geometry. How can the sea make such different angles in such a small area?

To get to the site you have to pass through an underwater archway/tunnel. Here is a video showing it.



It probably was more of a sort of monument.



Similar to many others found around the world, like.



Or the Chinchero rock carvings of the Inca.

Huaca de la Luna in Chinchero.



Here you can find more pictures of the Chinchero site and how similar it is to the Yoganumi site.

barones.smugmug.com...#!i=1850895207&k=ZHdwhND


barones.smugmug.com...#!i=1850895800&k=t45Mvsd

Similar to the large rocks carved by the Inca which they used for ceremonies, but the Yonagumi monument is on a larger scale..



Notice in the above picture how the steps are not the same size just like in Yonagumi. BTW, there are other sites off the Yonagumi island, but the center piece is that giant monument.

In the following website you will find more photos of Yonagumi.

www.lauralee.com...

Anyway, there should be more wondrous ancient cities and structures to be discovered underwater.

edit on 6-6-2013 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 7 2013 @ 12:20 AM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 


The first report was geniune they thought they had something but the evidence just was not there. Initial reports are not uncommonly, wrong.
edit on 7/6/13 by Hanslune because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 7 2013 @ 12:26 AM
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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

wow... The sonar images are proof buddy, plus the videos. Not to mention the videos of pictures of the 3d modeling that was done from the sonar images which show those are obvious ruins of an old city off the coast of Cuba.

I have kept up with this subject over the years, in fact I have been posting about this subject since about 2004 or 2005. I have been a member of this website since 2004, not 2009.



Sorry for the delay in replying involved at work for the next week or so, so briefly...and which are the real ones and which are the fake ones? For Cuba there was a report of a find then the evidence was found not to support it


I didn't say there were no cities that arose closer to rivers, but even to this day there are many people and cultures who haven't caught up to the modern world, yet they live close to the oceans because they are and have been for many generations fishermen. Not all, nor most civilizations were farmers, there were many cultures that instead of farming would fish for food, and the seas and oceans also provide, and have provided a more efficient route to trade than rivers, or land.


We are talking about ancient cities in the initial civilizations, in that context the first cities were not built on the seashore, again they went for fresh water, ie rivers. Development along the sea was a later development. The fringe author making that claim was wrong.


As to sources, first of all if there were any "fringe websites" that I gave links to was because I found photos from the video of the 3d reconstruction of the sonar images in those websites, not for anything else... The sonar images themselves and the original videos all were taken by Zelitsky and her team.


You mean made up stuff to support the idea of a city there - was one found?????


Heck, three of your own threads are about three different city ports that were found either underwater or buried close to the coast, two of them Egyptian, and a pre-Colombian city port in the Gulf of Mexico...


Yeah and they have real evidence to support them-----evidence is the key.



posted on Jun, 7 2013 @ 12:30 AM
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edit on 7/6/13 by Hanslune because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 7 2013 @ 07:24 AM
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Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by MysterX
 


Unfortunately not mate. No one is interested enough to get the funding to go do a proper dive because no one really believes it - it is like the "Baltic Sea Anomaly" in that respect.

The depths, etc do not fit the required time scales (even making allowances and going Neolithic). In fact, there are many problems with that particular site, hence no one wants to waste money excavating it when there are plenty of viable and realistic underwater cities to excavate. This one just doesn't fit, that is all there is to it.

Whereas Thonis-Heraclion is a known location and site of a proper sunken city, historically recorded, etc. And a very interesting one at that.

This complaint about academic research always crops up but the simple fact is that Archeology is like any other science. A theory is proposed and then tested and then conclusions are drawn. When enough evidence points to a current theory being incorrect then that theory is re addressed and reformed. Then the whole process starts again!


I hear you, but if everything is wrong or at least partially worng, then time scales are not an issue.

It's a relatively cheap exercise to send a submersible towing a sonar / radar array down and at least have a look.

The reason there is no action on this Cuba site, real archeology or not, is in my view down to preserving the status quo of what has gone before, not about financial considerations.

Troy was another example where for centuries, seated and eminent lords of science dispelled the 'myth' of a city of Troy as nothing more than missunderstood stories, myth and exaggerated legend....until it was discovered fairly recently to be a perfectly real city, with advanced occupancy spanning the ages.

Many respected and revered archologists were entirely wrong, yet Troy was sitting there under the drifting sands filled with information about our collective past history despite how eloquent established science scoffed and riduculed those who insisted upon searching for it.

The same *could* be true of the site near Cuba, or it could be nothing more than an odd collection of naturally formed rocks..the problem is, if it does turn out to be an 'impossible' site, it would completely overturn many, many years of established teachings, and would upset the archeological applecart in a huge way.

If science is SO adamant that this site is nothing of any importance, surely the scientific method OUGHT to be applied in order to prove that scientifically?

A small sub, with scanning equipment would discover the truth in mere hours, and would be very cheap to do.

The only possible reason for refusing to either prove or disprove the idea that an out of 'time frame' or otherwise 'impossible' ruins is not lack of resources, it's fear of upturning lifetimes of teaching and careers that are based on misconceptions and plain incorrect conclusions.

While i agree that science like archeology is an evolving science, being constantly updated as new information from the latest finds is added to the accumulated knowledge, an update on this scale isn't really an update or addition, it would be more like a complete rewrite of Human civilisation and history.

They know the general location, they know they have access to cheap resources to hunt for the ruins, but the question remains, do they want to deal with the consequences of what they may discover?

I don't think they do.


edit on 7-6-2013 by MysterX because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 7 2013 @ 11:15 AM
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Gotta love modern technology that makes it possible to uncover hidden history. S&F



posted on Jun, 7 2013 @ 02:49 PM
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Originally posted by MysterX


I hear you, but if everything is wrong or at least partially worng, then time scales are not an issue.

It's a relatively cheap exercise to send a submersible towing a sonar / radar array down and at least have a look.

The reason there is no action on this Cuba site, real archeology or not, is in my view down to preserving the status quo of what has gone before, not about financial considerations.


'Status quo' argument huh - so why did we find Gobekli Tepe, Hobbits and Denisovian man? They rather broke the status quo, the status quo gets broken every day....


Troy was another example where for centuries, seated and eminent lords of science dispelled the 'myth' of a city of Troy as nothing more than missunderstood stories, myth and exaggerated legend....until it was discovered fairly recently to be a perfectly real city, with advanced occupancy spanning the ages.

Many respected and revered archologists were entirely wrong, yet Troy was sitting there under the drifting sands filled with information about our collective past history despite how eloquent established science scoffed and riduculed those who insisted upon searching for it.


Ah no, The Romans 'creation myth' had their founders coming from Troy, the location of troy was a tourist site well into the 5th century AD. Roman's wrote about it and that classical material came down to the Europeans. What they didn't know was where it was exactly, which of the several mounds in that area was the city Homer wrote about. Until the mid 19th century travel by foreign Christians who wanted to dig up stuff in the Ottoman empire was just a bit difficult. As soon as that eased Calvert went and found the site helped by a map made by a British Naval officer, later on Heinrich Schliemann showed up with enough money to excavate. Care to point to a 18th century scientist who scoffed at it (there were some but the majority didn't AFAIK).


The same *could* be true of the site near Cuba, or it could be nothing more than an odd collection of naturally formed rocks..the problem is, if it does turn out to be an 'impossible' site, it would completely overturn many, many years of established teachings, and would upset the archeological applecart in a huge way.


Yawn.....you do know that people who discover new stuff, who upset the 'applecart' get tenure, book deals, funding, grants, National Geo documentaries? That the applecart get upset - daily. People who discover nothing end up checking walmart building sites and teaching at community colleges.


If science is SO adamant that this site is nothing of any importance, surely the scientific method OUGHT to be applied in order to prove that scientifically?


Fine you put up a half million to go do the research its the consensus of science that nothing is there. Go prove them wrong with your own money.

edit on 7/6/13 by Hanslune because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 7 2013 @ 06:05 PM
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Originally posted by Hanslune

The first report was geniune they thought they had something but the evidence just was not there. Initial reports are not uncommonly, wrong.
edit on 7/6/13 by Hanslune because: (no reason given)


I read the first report, there were several Japanese archeologists who said they found even artifacts of an ancient civilization there, but then the news stopped completely. Nothing at all was said, I tried looking for it. They didn't even report that it was a false discovery, nothing at all was reported after the initial discovery, and that to me raises flags of warning.



posted on Jun, 7 2013 @ 06:33 PM
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Originally posted by Hanslune[/I]


Sorry for the delay in replying involved at work for the next week or so, so briefly...and which are the real ones and which are the fake ones? For Cuba there was a report of a find then the evidence was found not to support it.


For crying out loud, we know even to this day that there are tribes of people, and "pueblos" who live close to the coast, and they have been fishermen for generations, upon generations.

Even the Inuit/Eskimos lived for generations in coastal areas, and they have been living like that for thousands and thousands of years. More and more we keep finding towns, forts, and villages that existed close to the coast because the seas have always been a good source for food. You can live close to a source of water, a river, and be close to the sea at the same time.

As for the ruins off the coast of Cuba... the evidence that something marvelous is down there are the videos, and the sonar scans from which 3d images have been made and can be easily seen that those are ruins...

Paulina Zelistky and her team were contracted by the Cuban government to find either sunken ships or petroleum, they found something completely different and Paulina's team along many other people want to preserve it, except those in the higher positions of power in Cuba.

Heck, I have shown before that even Cuban geologists like Manuel Iturralde-Vinent said that geologists were looking forward to explore those ruins, he even stated that he had talked about a joined expedition with geologists from all over the world in March 2002 at an International Geophysical meeting in Havana, you can find some info about him here

He also did said that the most interested geologists were Mexican.

In fact, let me excerpt some info about Manuel Iturralde-Vinent.


Manuel A. Iturralde-Vinent (born Cienfuegos, 10 July 1946), is a Cuban geologist and paleontologist and former deputy director of the Cuban National Natural History Museum in Havana.[1] He is a scientific personality in Cuba and the Caribbean and President of the Cuban Geological Society for 2007-2016.[2]

He has conducted several studies on the Cuban and Caribbean geology, paleontology and caves, publishing a number of books and articles on the subject.[3]

In the field of paleontology has been a prominent fossil hunter who shed light on Jurassic of Cuba with Argentinian researchers, especially Zulma Brandoni Gasparini, revising the taxonomy of Cuban species of marine reptiles and dinosaur. He made several discoveries in the field including Vinialesaurus carolii.

He has worked with the American Museum of Natural History to discover and excavate Miocene vertebrates at the paleontological site of Domo de Zaza and other localities in Cuba, Haiti, Dominican Republic, Jamaica and Puerto Rico.[4] He also conducted studies on the Quaternary megafauna discovered in Cuba and various remains of terrestrial vertebrates such as sloths, rodents, birds, reptiles and other prehistoric animals.[5] His work in paleontology, stratigraphy, biogeography, palaeogeography and plate tectonics are summarized in the Red Cubana de la Ciencia website
...

en.wikipedia.org...

He said he wasn't sure what it was, but the scientists wanted to investigate it, but the investigation never came.

Here is an interview that was done to him by a reporter from Spain about these ruins. Yes it is in Spanish.

www.luismarianofernandez.com...

Then the Cuban brothers, like the dictators they are, got in the middle and stated that they were more interested in looking for oil than finding an ancient Mexican city...

BTW, also in case you didn't know in Cuba there are caves with ancient diagrams, and pictures of a civilization that hasn't been identified yet. There are theories about who they could have been, but nothing is really known about them. Such as the caves in Punta del Este en la Isla de la Juventud.







Link

New caves also with ancient paintings have been discovered recently.
www.cadenagramonte.cu...:three-new-cave-art-sites-found-in-cuba



edit on 7-6-2013 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 7 2013 @ 07:00 PM
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The ruins off the west coast of Cuba are at about 700+ meters underwater. It is very difficult to get down there, which is why the evidence they gathered were sonar images and videos.

Going down there to explore better those ruins would be a very expensive endeavor, one which the Cuban government is not willing to do, and unfortunately these ruins are in Cuban territory which is still a dictatorship.
edit on 7-6-2013 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 7 2013 @ 07:05 PM
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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by Hanslune

The first report was geniune they thought they had something but the evidence just was not there. Initial reports are not uncommonly, wrong.
edit on 7/6/13 by Hanslune because: (no reason given)


I read the first report, there were several Japanese archeologists who said they found even artifacts of an ancient civilization there, but then the news stopped completely. Nothing at all was said, I tried looking for it. They didn't even report that it was a false discovery, nothing at all was reported after the initial discovery, and that to me raises flags of warning.


I was speaking about the Cuban report. There has been some research done on Yonaguni and a few academic have declared their support for it being man made, however the association is weak. I hold that it is natural but may have been modified by man, I would also say the majority hold that it is natural. Depending on where you go with that you are still left with it being not a city but at best a 'monument'.



posted on Jun, 7 2013 @ 07:09 PM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 


You keep repeating yourself, the evidence such as it was was not enough to convince anyone to send a follow on expedition - how many years has it been now? Yes sometimes initial reports are wrong, it does happen.

Since you're not a Mayanist I would suggest you may want to look at what is known as the Western Cuba mystery you might find it interesting.



posted on Jun, 7 2013 @ 07:59 PM
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Originally posted by Hanslune

I was speaking about the Cuban report. There has been some research done on Yonaguni and a few academic have declared their support for it being man made, however the association is weak. I hold that it is natural but may have been modified by man, I would also say the majority hold that it is natural. Depending on where you go with that you are still left with it being not a city but at best a 'monument'.


Most of what you wrote above I also wrote it in this thread. But something you don't seem to know is the fact that the Yonaguni monument is not the only ruin down there. The Yonaguni monument is the center piece, but it is not the only one in that area. Not to mention that the angles, steps etc in the Yonaguni monument were obviously carved.

The only way to get to the monument is through a tunnel, and because of that tunnel there is no way the sea could have carved it, not to mention the way the angles, and steps were made can't be found naturally.

You tell me how nature made stairs like these.





Yes they have some deterioration, but it should be normal for a monument that has been underwater for at least 10,000 or more years.

Angles like these and steps so close together in width, yet very high.





There is no way that whichever civilization carved this monument did it underwater, this monument was above water before it was carved, and still when it was above water the only way in was through a man-made tunnel.



There is debris that was probably accumulated from who knows how many geological events this monument went through.


Here is a drawing which shows where the tunnel is, in the upper left part of the drawing, and shows more or less the features of the monument.




edit on 7-6-2013 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 7 2013 @ 08:03 PM
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reply to post by Hanslune
 


You keep wanting to claim there is no evidence when there is plenty of evidence.
You keep not wanting to understand that when DICTATORS say they won't spend another red cent in ruins from some other civilization, it doesn't mean the ruins are not real and it doesn't mean that they don't have any value for human history... It just means DICTATORS do what they want...
Cuba is still a dictatorship in case you didn't know.

As for evidence, again here is one of the 3d reconstructions from the sonar images that were taken of the ruins off the west coast of Cuba.



As to the discovery in Japan that disappeared, I have no idea what happened to that one. There are no reports about the government saying it was a false discovery or anything else, it just disappeared from the news.


edit on 7-6-2013 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 7 2013 @ 08:31 PM
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Originally posted by Hanslune
...
Since you're not a Mayanist I would suggest you may want to look at what is known as the Western Cuba mystery you might find it interesting.


This is not my first time researching this. I was even born in Havana Cuba, so I know and have heard stories from my family about the Punta Del Este caves, and other stories. Not to mention that I have been researching this and other discoveries there for a very long time.

Unless you specify as to what you are referring to exactly about in your statement I quoted above, I have no way to know what you are trying to imply.



posted on Jun, 8 2013 @ 01:42 AM
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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
reply to post by Hanslune
 


You keep wanting to claim there is no evidence when there is plenty of evidence.
You keep not wanting to understand that when DICTATORS say they won't spend another red cent in ruins from some other civilization, it doesn't mean the ruins are not real and it doesn't mean that they don't have any value for human history... It just means DICTATORS do what they want...
Cuba is still a dictatorship in case you didn't know.


Yes I'm well aware of the political situation in Cuba and they have a fairly active archaeological community, so have no idea what your point is. If the ebil Cubans were blocking real research the archaeological community would be up in arms about it ... guess what - they aren't - why do you think that is?



As for evidence, again here is one of the 3d reconstructions from the sonar images that were taken of the ruins off the west coast of Cuba.


No you keep showing us over interpreted, bias 'images' that are not real. Why do you think this is 'real"?


As to the discovery in Japan that disappeared, I have no idea what happened to that one. There are no reports about the government saying it was a false discovery or anything else, it just disappeared from the news.


Its still there the people who believe in it haven't been able to find the evidence to support their contention.
edit on 8/6/13 by Hanslune because: (no reason given)



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